Author Topic: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.  (Read 11278 times)

Offline Winge

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #60 on: May 19, 2014, 07:36:30 pm »
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Although that could have changed since I last encountered an AI homeworld.
It did. The home stations have the planetary tachyon now.


That makes me sad--yet another strategy that is useless on the homeworlds  :'(

I can't help but wonder--with everything else, does the AI's Home Command Center still need things like Counters Missiles?  Do they really need Planetary Tachyon Coverage ????  A lot of the issue with Homeworlds, in my opinion, is they are like huge pieces of steak (using someone else's analogy), but I am only allowed to eat it with a butter knife and a plastic fork.  Sure, I can eat it...but it's going to be frustrating and take forever.

I would rather look at the Homeworlds and think "that might kill me; I'd better be ready for the response" than "I'm perfectly safe, but killing that is going to take another 5 hours."  Right now, only the Core CPA and Raid Engine posts give any concern for my planets (note:  I have not yet faced the retaliatory waves from the guard posts; I think I was playing Skyward Collapse or Bionic Dues at that time).  I don't mind the defenses being much stronger than even Core worlds, but I don't want to spend hours just because the only strategy that 'works' is a mindless zerg on one or two posts at a go.  I'd rather some of those strategies be permitted, but the AI being far more aggressive against me when I'm on their front lawn.  Like FS Galactic Transceiver pissed, although scaled appropriately for the superweapons available.

Thoughts?
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Offline Vacuity

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2014, 11:41:50 am »
that is easier said than done...unless I want to either sink a ton of time ... into scouting.
That's how I tend to do it.  The way I look at it, the homeworlds are like a puzzle that has to be picked apart, and so I try and find all the tools I need along my way through the game.  I'm always going to want access to MkIV ships, so advanced factories are chosen (or hacked) according to strategic placement, but the ARSs, core and experimental fabs I capture/hack are all chosen with the end goal of taking down the homeworld with minimum pain.  As a consequence, I try to avoid making decisions about these until I know what I'm facing.

It had never occurred to me to try microing teleporters though - do they really get though it's health in a reasonable time?
It's not too bad.  None of the three teleporting fleet ship types get a bonus against heavy hulls, so it's not super speedy, and as the wrath lance tends to *need* to be (one of) the first guardpost(s) you kill, you tend to have pretty high attrition with the ships you're using from the reserve pouring in.  Still, it "only" has 60 million health, with pretty negligible armour, so all the damage coming from your ships has a noticeable effect.  Typically, if I've got full MkI-IV caps of a teleporting ship, I'll micro them until the MkI and II ships are mostly gone, then pull out the MkIII and IV ships to be repaired while the Mk I and II ships are being rebuilt, which doesn't typically take too long.  It takes a few goes, but it's fun and challenging rather than grinding, frustrating and boring.  At least to me.

Also, like nitpik, I don't much mind homeworld assaults as they are, but I don't play above difficulty 8 either.  Sooner or later I'm going to meet a wrath lance sitting next to a superfortress or some other major unpleasantness, and I'm going to find that frustrating, I'm sure.

Offline Cyborg

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #62 on: May 20, 2014, 08:33:14 pm »
Is there consensus that the wrath lance needs a counter?
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Offline Toranth

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2014, 09:36:46 pm »
Is there consensus that the wrath lance needs a counter?
A counter?  Do you mean, adjusting the hull-type or something so there are more common units that get bonuses against it?
Or do you mean, a nerf?  I'd be opposed to a nerf, I think.  It's an obvious and dangerous guardpost, but it doesn't even enter my Top 5 most feared Core Guardpost list.
1)  Core CPA
2)  Core Raid Engine
3)  Cthulhu (Teuthida)
4)  Grav Reactor
5)  H/K Factory

If the Core Implosion Guardpost had 60,000,000 HP like the others, it'd be #6, but instead that's where the Wrath Lance sits.

Offline Cyborg

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2014, 11:03:47 pm »
A counter means, some sort of exploitable weakness. I'm fine with ship bonuses or some way of slowing the rotation, disabling beams, and so on. There are strategic and tactical decisions to be made here, if the design allows it.
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Offline Vacuity

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #65 on: May 21, 2014, 04:23:23 am »
I'd agree with Toranth that there are other guardposts that are generally way more painful to deal with.  The wrath Lance's counter is for all practical purposes teleporting units.  I'd say that the better answer would be to add more variety of teleporting units to the game rather than nerf the wrath lance or add extra weaknesses.

My biggest problem with homeworlds isn't the individual items on them, it's the combinations that occasionally get seeded next to each other.  A Core Raid Engine can be knocked down without too much pain, a Core Raid Engine under a forcefield along with a superfortress is agony.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #66 on: May 21, 2014, 05:01:17 am »
[... ]Top 5 most feared Core Guardpost list. [...]5)  H/K Factory
H/K Factory is too easy. During the whole AI homeworld assault it sent only 1 Mark I H/K. At least the Mark level of the H/Ks should be the same as tech level.
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Offline Histidine

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #67 on: May 21, 2014, 07:59:20 am »
Also Cthulhu guard post is completely negated by Scout Starship + not using anything reclaimable.

Grav Reactor and Core Raid Engine are unambiguously nasty though.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 08:01:15 am by Histidine »

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2014, 10:36:40 am »
A counter means, some sort of exploitable weakness. I'm fine with ship bonuses or some way of slowing the rotation, disabling beams, and so on. There are strategic and tactical decisions to be made here, if the design allows it.
Possibly hitting a forcefield (like a Riot Shield) delays further rotation by X seconds?  That way you'd have a core game unit that could do it rather than relying on getting one of the few teleporting types.

It might conceivably make it too easy/straightforward, but with all the other stuff going on during such an assault I think it'd be fine.
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Offline relmz32

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #69 on: May 21, 2014, 11:08:28 am »
A counter means, some sort of exploitable weakness. I'm fine with ship bonuses or some way of slowing the rotation, disabling beams, and so on. There are strategic and tactical decisions to be made here, if the design allows it.
Possibly hitting a forcefield (like a Riot Shield) delays further rotation by X seconds?  That way you'd have a core game unit that could do it rather than relying on getting one of the few teleporting types.

It might conceivably make it too easy/straightforward, but with all the other stuff going on during such an assault I think it'd be fine.

Its like trying to hold open some kind of crusher in movies, except instead of using a crowbar, you use a cap of shieldbearers.
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Offline Tridus

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #70 on: May 21, 2014, 01:43:03 pm »
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Also, protector starships dont seem to have counter-sniper of any sort?
Do they really need one? :)  They're so OP in some ways (just a few can shut down a fort, etc) it seems odd to add to it.

Hey, someone watched my video. :D

Protectors are really strong, I wouldn't add any extra protective ability to them. Counter Sniper can be achieved in other ways already.

Offline Toranth

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #71 on: May 21, 2014, 05:13:15 pm »
[... ]Top 5 most feared Core Guardpost list. [...]5)  H/K Factory
H/K Factory is too easy. During the whole AI homeworld assault it sent only 1 Mark I H/K. At least the Mark level of the H/Ks should be the same as tech level.
The issue I have with it is that it will trigger once when I start clearing the Core World I intend to attack through, then again when I actually attack.  Stopping to clean up two H/Ks is a time/ship sop, and if it gets away from you (or just joins the Threatfleet sitting on the AI HW), it can really be annoying.
Plus, it and the CRE are the only guardposts that can threaten you before you attack the homeworlds.


Also Cthulhu guard post is completely negated by Scout Starship + not using anything reclaimable.
Yeah, but I like to use that 75% of my fleetships that aren't immune to reclamation... like all my Mk IV stuff.

Grav Reactor and Core Raid Engine are unambiguously nasty though.
Especially together.  Grav and CRE next to each other, under glass, on the far side of the system from the wormholes.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #72 on: May 21, 2014, 05:14:42 pm »
Especially together.  Grav and CRE next to each other, under glass, on the far side of the system from the wormholes.
Hey, even an RNG needs a hobby.
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Offline Winge

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #73 on: May 21, 2014, 05:59:20 pm »
Especially together.  Grav and CRE next to each other, under glass, on the far side of the system from the wormholes.
Hey, even an RNG needs to be roasted slowly over an open fire

TIFTFY  ;)
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #74 on: May 21, 2014, 06:00:31 pm »
"slowly over an open fire" sounds far too gentle for its offenses ;)
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