Author Topic: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.  (Read 11279 times)

Offline Lancefighter

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I feel like that title is exceptionally long, but it really sums up how I feel about things. Progressively this game seems to have managed to get more annoying to actually play.

I've started a handful of games within the last hour, none of them got past half an hour. Lets discuss the things I have incredible issue with.

Just to start with - Dumb counterwave posts. I know there is discussion of getting rid of them, but its just another thing that gets in the way. As far as I can see, my main goal should be to explore as much as possible and blow up every single counterwave post at 10aip.. And the champion aids with the fleet to do that.

God damn plasma siege. I know I have another post on this already, but they just annoy me. I see no reason for a wave to explode my science ships. Really absolutely no reason. The amount of annoying it is is incredibly high. I literally was clicking a thing to buy it when it got exploded under a bunch of forcefields.

Next, and honestly probably the biggest one - At some point, the engine was changed to not recognize orders *during a pause*. My last game was lost because zenith starships are literally immune to damage for most of the game. I mean more specifically - I gave order to put up a forcefield thing from my shadow ship, and in the time it took for that to happen, shots that were fired from the zenith starship exploded my command center. Overall this feels really shitty.. Honestly just not having the 'beep beep' on giving an order, or the current orders not updating (say on galaxy map or holding down that button that shows lines). I understand that this change was made, if I understand, to restrict the whole spamming forcefields from a champion? It just feels worse to actually play. edit; apparently I'm dumb.

Also, protector starships dont seem to have counter-sniper of any sort?

I dunno, I'm just trying to play this game without feeling like the game itself is fighting with me (not the AI, mind, I want the AI to fight me..), but the game mechanics just seem to get in my way at any chance they can get.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 02:16:13 am by Lancefighter »
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Offline MaxAstro

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I'll just mention that I've had no trouble giving orders while paused; I frequently pause to micro my champion's shields.

I will say that I think maybe cloaked stuff could be immune to plasma siege FF splash, but honestly I've just stopped putting cloaked ships under forcefields.

Counterwave posts are a certain degree of lame, I'll grant that.  I much preferred the old version that was a smaller than usual wave that gave almost no warning.  I don't really feel the need to wipe them all out at the beginning, though, mostly because I never really feel like they are a significant threat.  Just something that slows me down for ~10 minutes while I stop everything I am doing to deal with it.

EDIT: In your settings menu, under Game, make sure Use TBS-Friendly Pause is enabled.

EDIT2: If you really need Protectors to counter snipers, use the force field module; most snipers won't be able to scratch it.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 01:41:40 am by MaxAstro »

Offline Lancefighter

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I'll just mention that I've had no trouble giving orders while paused; I frequently pause to micro my champion's shields.

I will say that I think maybe cloaked stuff could be immune to plasma siege FF splash, but honestly I've just stopped putting cloaked ships under forcefields.

Wait. Youre kidding me right. I've been playing with that enabled for so long, that on a new install I completely forgot it was actually an option? I dont even know anymore. Am I even playing the same game..

Edit; Looks like I was wrong, snipers dont ignore forcefields like I thought they did. Sniper guardians also apparently arent a guaranteed guardian type like I swore they were. They seem to murder every single starship I've ever had in the 'medium' hull type (seriously why is medium a hull type for starships) pretty much without fail.
Honestly using the forcefield wouldnt really help, protector starship shield is 2m hp.. Basically useless.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 02:24:52 am by Lancefighter »
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Offline Qatu

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 Protectors are for stopping annoyance by plasma siege bombs, get some with anti-energy and leave them with base to mostly stop that.

 Scout starships are for dealing with snipers on offense, counter-sniper turrets are for  dealing with snipers on defense.

 Hackers are for dealing with plasma eyes.

 Cheating is for dealing with counterattack posts. "cmd:enable cheats" + "Revenge Is Best Not Served" removes them all with no counter waves.

 Pretending you won and moving on is for dealing with boring AI homeworld assaults.

 Game is still pretty fun to me, even if it has some issues.

Offline Kahuna

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I hate Plasma Siege Starships and Counterwave Posts too. They're pain in the ass.
On the other hand.. I think every game needs something annoying.. something that makes the player go "Oh shit!". I always go "Oh shit!" if I see Mark >= II Plasma Siege Starship trying to kill my Command Station. I always manually order Needler Turrets to focus fire them and micro all "Artillery destroying ships" into a better position and focus fire it.

Sniper guardians also apparently arent a guaranteed guardian type like I swore they were.
That's what I though a while ago too.
[... ]It's ALWAYS Spider and Sniper Guardians. [...]
http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,15044.0.html
It was fixed
Quote
Fixed a longstanding bug where the AI never actually picked any difficulty-gated guardian type (EMP, Self-destruction, Warp Gate) as a buildable type, when doing so randomly.
Thanks to Kahuna for the report.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline tadrinth

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I think Scout starships provide counter-sniper coverage.  Unlike the protector starship modules which can only counter a limited amount of incoming damage, I think the scout starships completely block sniper fire.  I don't know what the coverage radius is like, though. 

Also, while the force field modules might not have much health, they would at least deny Sniper guardians their hull type bonuses.

Eff plasma siege starships, though.  WTB more bonus ship types with anti-artillery bonuses, please!  And AOE immunity for things like hacker placeables and science vessels... yeesh. 

Offline Lancefighter

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Fun story - Scout starships die to similar mk plasma siege starships in a single *splash* hit (while cloaked.. under forcefields. Hence my other thread actually).

Maybe if snipers are not actually a 100% spawn, it might be just less annoying. I am just not really sure if 2m hp (over what, 2+4+6+8 hardpoints? so 40m hp total maybe) is relevant at all at the point where high mk sniper guardians start onehitting legions of spire frigates.

And clearly the solution to artillery hulls is to make laser gatlings absolutely murder artillery stuff. Maybe they could get a bonus based on the physical size of the enemy ship.

I think I would rather not cheat my way out of counterwave posts, but I think at this point I am so fed up with them that I might try it.

One thing I really like is that new honycomb maptype. Or maybe more accurately, I really love when the thing has giant holes in it. They look pretty. Lattice/grid should maybe do that.
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Offline Kahuna

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Pretending you won and moving on is for dealing with boring AI homeworld assaults.
I'd say it's boring if you make it boring. I mean if you just grind the homeworlds by sending your fleet to a suicide mission over and over again until you eventually manage to destroy the AI Home Command Station.

If I find something boring or ineffective it encourages me to find new/better ways (strategies/tactics) to get to the same goal.

I'm not saying the AI Homeworlds couldn't be improved or made more interesting. But it's not necessarily a horrible grind.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 03:56:34 am by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Kahuna

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WTB more bonus ship types with anti-artillery bonuses, please!
This.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Toranth

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WTB more bonus ship types with anti-artillery bonuses, please!
This.
Bomber, Space Tank, Raptor, Raider, Munitions Booster, Neinzul Scapegoat all have good multipliers - 5+.
Neinzul Youngling Tiger and Attractor drone have low multipliers - 2.4.
The aforementioned Needler Turret has a multiplier of 3.
And, oh yeah, the Vampire Claw also has an anti-Artillery bonus - 3.  When it can hurt the unit (cannot attack Plasma Siege Startships).

So, we've got the Bomber, a Bomber clone, two swarmers, and two support ships with good bonuses; one Youngling bomber clone and a support ship with minor bonuses; and one melee unit with a bonus that can't attack the desired target due to Fusion Cutter Immunity.
Yeah, we could probably use a few more anti-Artillery bonuses.  This is the least count of anything except Command-Grade or Turret.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2014, 09:34:38 am »
Missile Frigates counter the most ships.
I mean there are more ships that are countered by Missile Frigates than ships that are countered by Fighters or Bombers.. I think.

On the other hand Fighters and Bombers have the most important damage multipliers (Top 5: Polycrystal, Medium, Artillery, Structural, Heavy)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 09:39:08 am by Kahuna »
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2014, 10:07:03 am »
I feel like that title is exceptionally long, but it really sums up how I feel about things. Progressively this game seems to have managed to get more annoying to actually play.
I've actually been trying to make it less annoying.  The first two things you mention (counter posts, plasma siege) are not new.  But SF posts, you may have noticed, are now much less annoying than they were in 7.0 or earlier.  And carriers no longer just cheat through your forcefields, etc.

Quote
Just to start with - Dumb counterwave posts. I know there is discussion of getting rid of them, but its just another thing that gets in the way. As far as I can see, my main goal should be to explore as much as possible and blow up every single counterwave post at 10aip.. And the champion aids with the fleet to do that.
I agree that these are annoying, and that's why I want to make them optional and add that Warp Relay idea to the core game in their place.

But I'm mainly trying to clean things up right now, rather than make them messier, so that's not happening immediately unless I get an unexpected chunk of time in which to do it.

So in the meantime I do suggest just using the cheat to remove these if they're making the game unenjoyable for you.  I understand it feels off to do so, but it's the best interim solution I can think of for you.


Quote
God damn plasma siege. I know I have another post on this already, but they just annoy me. I see no reason for a wave to explode my science ships. Really absolutely no reason.
7.028 will give science ships, hackers, hacking devices, space docks, mercenary space docks, and starship constructors immunity to plasma-siege-splash and aoe in general.  Most of them because they're easily replaceable and leave no remains.  The hacking ones to avoid some extremely-hard-to-keep-them-alive situations under planetary AI coverage.

I hope to get 7.028 out later today, though probably not in the morning as I'd originally planned due to some other stuff I need to go do.


Quote
Also, protector starships dont seem to have counter-sniper of any sort?
Do they really need one? :)  They're so OP in some ways (just a few can shut down a fort, etc) it seems odd to add to it.


Quote
I dunno, I'm just trying to play this game without feeling like the game itself is fighting with me (not the AI, mind, I want the AI to fight me..), but the game mechanics just seem to get in my way at any chance they can get.
Some of it is specific mechanics, sure, but it's also possible you're experiencing a combination of having the played the game so much in the past year or so that the annoying bits stick out to you far more than the fun bits.  It depends on your personality and how much you're inclined to enjoy a game despite its faults vs dislike a game despite its good points.

I'm happy to try to address anything that makes the game less fun, but I've run into many cases over the years where the main source of dissatisfaction was psychological in nature and already into a bit of a feedback-loop stage where my ability to do anything about it was fairly limited.  Which doesn't reflect poorly on those people at all, we're just all different in things like that.
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Offline NickAragua

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2014, 01:28:38 pm »
When a game makes me irrationally angry, I put the mouse down and go do something else.

I've never actually finished an AI Wars game myself with a victorious outcome (plenty of losses though), and I've owned it since version 2 or 3. A few times I've gotten to the point of knocking off one AI homeworld, but the second one always turns into a grind. Well, "grind" is a generous term, I usually don't even scratch the paint.

Maybe this time I'll be able to finish it, using the Fallen Spire guys. If their light frigates and refugee outpost are any indication, I should be able to stomp the AI quite thoroughly once I build up some of their more serious ships.

Offline Kahuna

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2014, 02:00:43 pm »
If AI Homeworlds are such a horrible grind I'd like to know how do you handle them? What's your strategy?
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: I cant play this game anymore without getting irrationally angry.
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2014, 04:51:59 pm »
[A bunch of stuff]
Yeah I think just at this point I have just played too much. I've been trying to actually play the game lately, after a pretty long mostly break, and it just hasnt been working. I really do like most of the actual things happening, it just feels too hard to actually play..  Maybe I will try again closer to 8.0? :\
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