Author Topic: Moba balance comparison, please comment  (Read 205627 times)

Offline chemical_art

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #615 on: November 07, 2014, 12:26:30 pm »
started winning games by a landslide with an extremely inflated K/D/A, it's much easier to assume that there's something going on.

Just curious, if that happens, don't matchmaking systems do that anyway? Especially with new players?
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #616 on: November 07, 2014, 01:22:00 pm »
started winning games by a landslide with an extremely inflated K/D/A, it's much easier to assume that there's something going on.

Just curious, if that happens, don't matchmaking systems do that anyway? Especially with new players?
There's a difference between putting someone in a higher skill bracket where they belong, which is reasonable, and detecting that you are a smurf. What I'm trying to say is that Valve punishes you HEAVILY if they think you're smurfing. They don't just put you where you belong, they put you against people that destroy you.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #617 on: November 07, 2014, 01:23:39 pm »
There's probably a programmer somewhere in Valve who spends at least an hour a day cackling over doomed smurfs.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #618 on: November 07, 2014, 01:29:09 pm »
What I'm trying to say is that Valve punishes you HEAVILY if they think you're smurfing.

*shrug*

I'd rather a few smurfs get through rather then punish new players who share IP's with those who are good. That just might be because I am in a very large apartment complex, and our IP's are lumped so we all get punished if one of us does not behave for anything. This has happened to us over several different games and for other things as well, so I have to use proxies. It has happened to Valve games as well.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 01:33:18 pm by chemical_art »
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #619 on: November 07, 2014, 02:52:19 pm »
Welcome to the Tartarus bracket.
Pretty much that.
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #620 on: November 07, 2014, 02:53:34 pm »
I never really understood the punishing of smurfs. Like that's some horrifyingly bad thing to do. To me, it's not worse than being a badmouth. Smurfs get put in their proper place soon enough anyway, so what's the fuzz? And as far as SMITE goes, you can't smurf in ranked, where it would matter, anyway.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #621 on: November 07, 2014, 03:15:31 pm »
I never really understood the punishing of smurfs.
Maybe it's not so much the developers practicing "community improvement" as it is "recreation".

if( player.GetIsSmurf() ) start( "aiwar.exe" );
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #622 on: November 07, 2014, 04:14:26 pm »
Well. Smurfs can be seen as pretty nasty people. They're basically preying on and victimizing new players, who are just trying to get into the game (or genre), ruining the experience for everybody else, just so that they can ensure an easy victory by playing way outside of their own skill bracket. Obviously the smurf may not see it this way, but when someone is trying to learn how to play DotA 2, which is difficult enough in itself, even when everything else is equal, having someone with hundreds or thousands more hours of playtime continually killing you in your inexperience every chance they get is NOT a good way to increase the playerbase. I think Valve has an obligation to punish these people, for the greater good; or at least I can't blame them for doing it.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #623 on: November 07, 2014, 11:02:24 pm »
I never really understood the punishing of smurfs. Like that's some horrifyingly bad thing to do. To me, it's not worse than being a badmouth. Smurfs get put in their proper place soon enough anyway, so what's the fuzz? And as far as SMITE goes, you can't smurf in ranked, where it would matter, anyway.

Simple: It can completely push new players away from the game entirely, regardless of what the game is.  Nobody likes jumping into a game like that, only to get obliterated so horribly that they get an idea like "Well how in the hell could I *ever* manage to do something about that?  I knew this was going to be hard, but I didn't expect THAT.  Maybe I'll go do something else instead."

I see this in fighting games alot.  If you beat the everloving cheese out of a totally new player.... as many jerks in that community will happily do.... often, that new player leaves, and simply never comes back.  Their initial impression of the game was not a fun one, so why would they care to learn more about it to reach the fun part?  They wanted to start having fun NOW, not 2 months later.


On top of that, it's just a huge waste of everyone's time.  The players on the losing team cant DO anything, so their time is being utterly wasted and nothing is accomplished.   The players on the winning side dont NEED to do anything, so they arent being challenged, and they cant really get in much practice against a mostly dead, twitching enemy, nor can they learn much.... so their time is being wasted as well.  Chances are, both sides are bored.  Guess who is the only one having fun?  The smurf.

As far as I'm concerned, smurfing=trolling.  It's seriously THAT annoying.

And the really sad part is that the smurf probably isnt ACTUALLY impressing anyone... most people are just going to look at them as a giant asshat with nothing better to do.

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #624 on: November 08, 2014, 02:43:31 am »
most people are just going to look at them as a giant asshat with nothing better to do.

*raises hand*. I am seriously unimpressed when I see smurfing going on. If a person has nothing better to do than smurf, I can punt them into some charities to at least improve our world.

Sheesh.
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #625 on: November 08, 2014, 09:02:50 am »
What I mean by "I don't see the point of punishing the smurfs" is that if the games matchmaking is working properly, smurfs would rather rapidly be put with people of their own skill, so you'd really only get them 1-3 games where they'll go stompy stompy. I just don't see the need for ADDITIONAL punishment.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #626 on: November 08, 2014, 11:34:34 pm »
What I mean by "I don't see the point of punishing the smurfs" is that if the games matchmaking is working properly, smurfs would rather rapidly be put with people of their own skill, so you'd really only get them 1-3 games where they'll go stompy stompy. I just don't see the need for ADDITIONAL punishment.


The reason for the punishment is because one way or another, it's basically a form of trolling/griefing, in a genre that tends to have LONG matches, complete with penalties for leaving early... so once a smurf starts ruining a match, guess what, you *will* put up with it for the entire match, or you get penalized.  And the matchmaking in these games is never perfect, and sometimes just outright decides to barely work at all.  And smurfs are pretty darn frequent... these arent isolated incidents.



In other irritating news, Dawngate has been cancelled, because EA.  I should have seen this coming.  Someone I know *did* see this coming.  After trying it myself, I showed it to a friend awhile back, who said "Wow, yeah, that looks pretty good.  But it's under EA.  It's probably going to get cancelled before too long, because that's the sort of thing they do.  I'd try it if it was under anyone else, but under them it's just a matter of time, so there's no point".   I kept thinking, why would they do that, the game is doing well and the population keeps rising.  Even during the middle of the night, I'd never had any trouble finding matches.

But recently, BAM, it was over.  And I feel sorry for the devs... the jackasses at EA didn't exactly give them alot of advance warning.  This was for a game where EA did basically NOTHING to advertise or promote the game (and it's not the first time they've done this, that's for sure).  And one where the guys that the devs dealt with directly had freely admitted that they "didn't actually understand how this genre of game like this works".  This was also RIGHT after a game-changing patch, which was also the point where the devs were deciding to switch from LoL's style of F2P, to Dota's "get every character, but there's lots of extra stuff you can buy" payment model. 

The going theory is that EA basically figured "Well, Dota and League just print money like crazy... if we, the Great and Mighty EA, put out a game like that we'll DEFINITELY get the same results".  Upon this not happening WHILE THE GAME IS STILL IN BETA, they pulled the plug. 

And at this point, I'm totally fed up with this crap from them.  Way too many times, EA will take a game, or an entire developer, that I like and just DESTROY it.  It's gotten to the point where every time EA acquires a new property, I just EXPECT them to wreck it somehow, and become amazingly surprised if this does not happen. 

Just... ugh.  Whole thing is pretty frustrating.  Just like every other time they've pulled this crap.



....there, rant over.  Bah.

Offline KingIsaacLinksr

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #627 on: November 09, 2014, 01:36:45 am »
I haven't bought an EA or Ubisoft game in.....at least 3 years. Probably longer. Haven't missed a dang thing. Not surprised EA pulled the plug on Dawngate either.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #628 on: November 09, 2014, 03:12:36 am »
I haven't bought an EA or Ubisoft game in.....at least 3 years. Probably longer. Haven't missed a dang thing. Not surprised EA pulled the plug on Dawngate either.

Aye.

What always bugs the hell outta me with that though is when a really good-looking game shows up, gets me interested, aaaaaaand.... I look into it and spot the dreaded EA logo. 

Very.... irritating.

Granted, I buy the more mainstream games only rarely as compared to indie stuff, but still.  I'd really love to see that company go under.  That'd be a happy day.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Moba balance comparison, please comment
« Reply #629 on: November 09, 2014, 08:40:17 am »
Ah yes, Electronic Arse.

I don't condone greed, but I do understand it.  But sometimes, with EA, even that cannot explain their actions.
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