Grey Goo

[Mánagarmr]

Another concern I've been reading is that the game happens SLOW. Not just "no Starcraft micro" slow, slow as in 30 minutes before any of the action actually starts happening slow. Apparently it's not even possible to "rush" your opponent or to attack him head on until you have an overwhelming force,

Then those people aren't playing as well as the AI. TotalBiscuit's video on the game is 38 min long and in that time he gets in 2 skirmish games (that he concedes due to being overwhelmed) and has time to go through the options menu.

My guess as to why the reviewers may say stuff like that is that they a) aren't that great at RTS games in the first place* and b) they haven't had the time to properly learn the game yet. The ones who did most work probably played through the SP campaign and then had a couple of pvp matches. That's not because they're lazy, stupid or don't care about the game, but they have to not just play the game but also take notes and then either write an article or make + edit a video on it, at least if they don't want to sound like they have no idea what they're talking about. Those things take up time and they probably have a week at most to do it and they may have other games they need to cover in that time as well.

* Due to the rarity of games being released in the genre the last couple of years. Dedicated reviewers tend to not stick with any game for that long.

Yeah, I don't find the game slow either. It's definitely faster than SupCom, albeit not as frantic as Starcraft. But the games doesn't feel ardously long. That said, I haven't played that much yet. Also if the game is over after a single battle, I can't see any of the involved using much strategy if they just throw their deathblobs at eachother, hoping to win.

[eRe4s3r]

For example, the humans are the experts at defense BUT their entire base has to be connected to the same powergrid, and since every map only has a relatively small starting area which is surrounded by cliffs and other obstacles, keeping your bases connected to the power grid can be quite difficult if not impossible

This is definitely a major problem (especially for building defenses), but.. humans do not need to expand beyond starting point. Refineries can have stealth harvesters and extractors can be built anywhere where there is resource and view. Basically humans only need troops at the expansions, because harvesters are not usually at risk of dieing. And Humans have teleportation, so you attack 1 of their extractors you might as well attack the main base. A force can instantly be teleported there. Especially for GOO this is a MAJOR issue. Because all it takes is 1 monitor (flying human scout) to find a goo, and then you press button and BAM human army sitting next to goo)

Another thing I've heard is that since the Goo basically have mobile "bases" (their units are their buildings), they can stall the game for minutes or hours while they continually replicate new units and spread them across the map making you search down each blob individually while the other blobs continue to reproduce.

Only mother goo can replicate to mother goo, and for that you need to sit on a geyser.. and it takes like 5 minutes to gain the resources for a mother goo which then needs ANOTHER geyser to ever actually produce units (during the time you can't produce other units either). Basically, a simple air force can instantly find the goo and harass it, more importantly find it and trace it over cliffs. The goo can stall games a bit, but if you were winning the goo won't ever make a come-back Since your first action is likely to put a group of 5 tanks and 1 siege on each geysir, just to lock it down. And mother goo can't handle that.

Basically, I find the 3 races to be well balanced. And they are also quite different to play. Goo is the least fun to play actually, despite what the description makes it sound like. To have a base sitting on a geyser is very dangerous, because geysers often sit in open areas.

Funnily the 1 issue I have with this game is neither of these points, but rather that everything is so INCREDIBLY GENERIC and lacks an own style. Beta and Humans are story wise very very different, Humans are 500+ years ahead in technology in this game but the units are nearly identical. Only the epic units are a bit cooler, but especially the GOO epic unit is absolute useless (imo).

Sadly this is not really the game to revitalize the RTS genre, it is competent, but not great.

[Mánagarmr]

Well, I don't think anyone has ever claimed it was the "next coming" in RTS, but merely "On of the best to come out in late years" which essentially means it's competent.


That said, I'm like you: I don't have any of the problems with the game that people seem to generally have, but rather that it's a touch bland and might play out it's fun in less hours than I'd like. But so far I'm having a lot of fun with it.

[Wingflier]

I watched the Rank 1 in solo matchmaking play some games last night (a couple hours). It seems a lot of the claims of the reviewers and players I've read *were* unfounded.

The game is indeed more slow paced than say Starcraft 2, but it's still pretty action packed. It seems from minute one scouts are being sent across the map and small skirmishes escalate into larger engagements which eventually decide the game. Since there is effectively only one resource IN the game, controlling that resource is of extreme importance. The engagements themselves seemed pretty interesting, with micro playing a decent role but not an absolute one. Obviously this rank 1 player (tag Bikerush, an old Zero Hour vet) had SC2 level micro, but then again he's the best player in the entire game currently.

The game itself looked like a lot of fun. A nice balance between constant action while keeping micro as minimal as possible (though once again, still incredibly important). It did turn out to be true that the humans and the beta were indeed quite different in practice, even if their units functioned somewhat similarly. The only major problems I saw with the game were that, at this point, the humans seem a bit underpowered compared to the other two. Everytime I saw a human played (which was rarely) they got absolutely crushed. It just didn't seem like they could keep up with the production of the other two races and their defenses just weren't strong enough to develop enough of a foothold on the map to matter.

The graphics were another matter. This streamer, who I'm sure had a top of the line computer, had to put all the settings on low just to stream it, and even still there were visible hiccups and even total moments of screen freezing for several seconds during the bigger engagements.

Finally, the low variety of units did seem like it would get old after awhile, though it seems they went with the Blizzard "minimalist" approach to balancing, which does typically work better, and to those who have an interest in competitive play, I highly doubt the lack of units will much matter. Hopefully some future expansions can spice things up.

In terms of the uselessness of the Goo's "god tier" unit, which I haven't yet seen, one would hope that a future balance patch could fix that quite nicely.

All in all, looks like an incredibly fun game and definitely an important addition to the RTS genre. Still not willing to pay $50 but I might go with $40 or so if it goes on sale.

[Aklyon]

As far as I've seen, the Purger (which like the other two epics you can have 2 of despite the epic classification, since 70 fits into 200 twice) is a giant AoE siege unit with no anti-air capability. It sends bits underground and smashes up things where you targetted it in a pretty significant area. (for comparison, the Hand of Ruk is similar to a Fatboy, and the Alpha has both giant laser and AA attacks)

[Mánagarmr]

The Purger is a siege unit and is probably quite useless in actual COMBAT compared to the other two. But it will absolutely devastate any base it reaches. Humans are pretty much instantly boned if it reaches their base as it will destroy anything it touches with its "tentacles".


I've spent some more time playing, and I agree that humans have it very tough. Both in how their base is constrained, long supply lines to resources and limited space to build production.


Of all the problems humans suffer though, I'd say the reliance on ONE base to be the biggest one. It leads to excessive supply lines with harvesters that are easily harassed.

[Aklyon]

It appears Grey Goo has had some drama already, in the form of "Top twitch streamer for the game gets help from relatively good 2v2 player, challenges known SC2 players to grey goo match, streamcheats, rushes instead of trying to work with teammate, gets all BM about loss and blames teammate."
Kinda hoping someone knocks him off the top spot now, it doesn't feel like this is going to help the game any.

[Mánagarmr]

Not entirely sure that's a Grey Goo drama. That's just common celebrity bullshit xD

[eRe4s3r]

I find both parties extremely obnoxious and would never watch a stream by them, so yeah ;p

Ps.: Ghosting is cheating, which means he should be banned.

[Aklyon]

I find both parties extremely obnoxious and would never watch a stream by them, so yeah ;p

I only watched a little bit of both and I'd still agree they're obnoxious as heck.

[Mánagarmr]

Given it a fair few hours of gameplay and I'll say it's solid. It's not revolutionary in any way, even though the factions are very unique and distinct from eachother. But it's fun and has solid mechanics. It's easy to consider a unit or a faction "OP", but I've noticed that it's mostly down to lack of understanding.

[Wingflier]

Alright it's been about 2 months and the company just released their first huge balance patch a couple days ago.

How do you guys feel now that a little time has passed? Is anybody still playing it? I heard that the multiplayer servers are a bit empty which scares me from wanting to purchase it.

I found a deal online for about half the retail price. Would it be worth it even in the worst case scenario that single player was all I could reliably play?

[Mánagarmr]

I'm playing it against the AI now and then, and whenever I can coerce my friends into playing with me (I usually win, so they're reluctant to). I've yet not had any time to adapt to the changes. Because they're sweeping, yet subtle at the same time... I NEVER play these kinds of games against random people on the Internet, so I can't talk about the online community.

[Wingflier]

Why don't you play against random people on the Internet?

If you've never played an RTS online before, maybe you wouldn't know that people within the 1v1 RTS community are usually pretty intelligent, respectful, educated people. In all my time playing online RTS, I don't think I've ever encountered a single douchebag or rude person that I can remember.

I think it's an intellectualism thing. The genre weeds out the idiots pretty quick, and so the only people left are typically those with enough sense to not only be decent at the game, but also the importance of manners and good behavior as well. I think Starcraft was the game in which the polite and now universal gesture of "good game" was first invented. It's kind of an unspoken rule that you're nice to one another in these types of games, though one can argue that fellowship and respect between enemy commanders goes back as far as human history.

Anyway, the MOBAs are the breeding grounds for the pseudo-intellectual community. The people who couldn't hack it at RTS but can handle controlling one unit with 4 abilities. That's typically where all those types end up.

[Mánagarmr]

I think the primary reason is because it's just cheese cheese cheese and a bit of more cheese in online play. People just want to "pwn nubs" rather than have a fun game so I'm not really that keen on 1v1 online. I think the only such game I play is Shadow Era, and even then I play very rarely.