Arcen Games
Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: Mánagarmr on January 26, 2015, 03:52:52 am
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So Grey Goo (http://store.steampowered.com/app/290790/) is out and I'm extremely intrigued. I'm a fan of this minimum-macro/micro, slow types of strategy games (and conversely HATE the click/spamfest that is SC2-style games). Anyone played it and can give me some kind of recommendation? I love Supreme Commander and the OLD Command&Conquer games (Tiberian Dawn/Sun).
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All I know is that I too think it's really interesting. And it's hilarious listening to the SC2 aficionados complain how "it's too slow; it'll never be an e-sport."
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Thankfully, not all Starcraft fans are obsessive nutcases. It's not a bad game, but some folks need to realize that not everything has to be an e-sport.
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Dunnoe. I just took one look at it at wrote it off as "Meh, More Starcraft.".
Any actual reason to be interested in it?
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Dang you OP, I was just about to make a post about this one.
Apparently the game hearkens back to the more C&C style of gameplay. At least that's what all the reviews have said.
Micro isn't as important as you common RTS game but obviously better micro gives you an advantage as with any RTS game ever made. I think the really distinct quality of the game though are the 3 races and how supposedly differently they are. Apparently it's a huge deal. Especially the 3rd race, the goo faction which plays in an extremely unique manner. They literally suck up their opponents.
Anyway, read some of the Steam reviews, it looks freaking awesome. Of course I'm extremely partial to any kind of RTS game as long as it's half decent simply because there are so few decent ones coming out anymore. Apparently the soundtrack is made by the guy who did the C&C series as well, and he's always made amazing music.
It's $50 which is the only thing stopping me. I'd pay $30 easy but I don't want to invest $50.
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Dunnoe. I just took one look at it at wrote it off as "Meh, More Starcraft.".
Any actual reason to be interested in it?
Well, for one: It's nothing like Starcraft at all. It's the antithesis of Starcraft. Slow, deliberate and strategic gameplay and a minimum of micro/macro as opposed to twitch decisions, heavy emphasis on micro/macro and high APM requirements. In addition units don't have activatable abilities but are largely automated, further reducing the micro need.
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Dang you OP, I was just about to make a post about this one.
Apparently the game hearkens back to the more C&C style of gameplay. At least that's what all the reviews have said.
Micro isn't as important as you common RTS game but obviously better micro gives you an advantage as with any RTS game ever made. I think the really distinct quality of the game though are the 3 races and how supposedly differently they are. Apparently it's a huge deal. Especially the 3rd race, the goo faction which plays in an extremely unique manner. They literally suck up their opponents.
Anyway, read some of the Steam reviews, it looks freaking awesome. Of course I'm extremely partial to any kind of RTS game as long as it's half decent simply because there are so few decent ones coming out anymore. Apparently the soundtrack is made by the guy who did the C&C series as well, and he's always made amazing music.
It's $50 which is the only thing stopping me. I'd pay $30 easy but I don't want to invest $50.
Yeah, if it wasn't for the pricetag this would've been a no brainer for me. I'm already intrigued enough, but seeing as it has it's (albeit well deserved) price tag, I'm a little bit more cautious. I love the humans too. FINALLY a game where humans aren't your bog standard "hurr durr we haf tanks hurr durr" a la WH40K style. I LOVE the idea of an advanced, esoteric and "strange" human faction. One of the reasons I loved Aeon in Supreme Commander.
Then of course, there's the Goo. That faction is just completely wild. I haven't seen enough gameplay to understand them yet, but the whole idea of growing your HP pool (growing larger) by consuming resources (and enemies!) and then splitting off into smaller parts and morphing units...is just insane. It sounds like a truly unique way to play IF they pull it off.
And I'm also extremely happy to see Zulan's Hotbuild mod make it into a real game. Been using it for SupCom for quite a while, and this game seems built around the idea, which is awesome.
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All I know is that I too think it's really interesting. And it's hilarious listening to the SC2 aficionados complain how "it's too slow; it'll never be an e-sport."
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Thankfully, not all Starcraft fans are obsessive nutcases. It's not a bad game, but some folks need to realize that not everything has to be an e-sport.
Or that things doesn't have to happen at lightning speed to be an esport... But honestly, I don't give a damn about esports. I've got Smite for that. This is a game I'm looking to have a lot of fun with and so far, it seems like I will.
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I thought it looked interesting, but the price was way too much for something that is such an unknown, and just 15 missions.
I mean, I guess it's by the original C&C guys, which is OK and all, but I'm not really sold on nostalgia alone, I just want an awesome game.
I'll wait for reviews and a sale.
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I'm also waiting for some sale since it's slightly on pricey side.
If it gets good reviews I might get it sooner - but I have been disappointed in rts-es recently (planetary annihilation no single player, C&C turned into some strange clickfest).
Also Homeworld Remastered Collection is coming that might be nicer buy for next month (coming out in month and a 2 days :D )
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I checked this out on twitch. A couple things stood out to me:
Unit variety in a real match looks low right now. Players do not seem to be compelled to create complex armies.
I did not see any large battles.
I fail to see the draw in the race variety right now. I did not see one melee unit at all in about an hour of gameplay. Lasers everywhere.
Loading multiplayer matches can be incredibly slow.
Be careful, folks. I don't think this is the RTS you are looking for.
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Pretty sure Mother Goos count as melee, and I've seen plenty of those on a stream. (though I'd also been watching that one in particular in the first place because they were looking for silly things in 2v2, like Quad Alphas.)
What did you consider a Real match, Cyborg?
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Pretty sure Mother Goos count as melee, and I've seen plenty of those on a stream. (though I'd also been watching that one in particular in the first place because they were looking for silly things in 2v2, like Quad Alphas.)
What did you consider a Real match, Cyborg?
1v1,2v2. Mother goo is not what I'm talking about for hand-to-hand combat.
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Cyborg might be right. After reading a few official reviews I became a lot more apprehensive than I was at first glance.
http://www.pcgamer.com/grey-goo-review/
Apparently, the first two factions (human and beta) are so similar that it's difficult to even tell their units apart. Though the "Goo" faction is obviously incredibly unique, this comes as an unfortunate surprise to me. I would hope that all 3 factions would be significantly different from each other. In addition, some of the faction mechanics seem a little wonky. For example, the humans are the experts at defense BUT their entire base has to be connected to the same powergrid, and since every map only has a relatively small starting area which is surrounded by cliffs and other obstacles, keeping your bases connected to the power grid can be quite difficult if not impossible, from what I've read. All the enemy has to do is cut the power network to the new bases and they become entirely useless. Compare this to the beta and the goo which can build bases anywhere and this seems like a bit of a ridiculous mechanic. Another thing I've heard is that since the Goo basically have mobile "bases" (their units are their buildings), they can stall the game for minutes or hours while they continually replicate new units and spread them across the map making you search down each blob individually while the other blobs continue to reproduce.
Another concern I've been reading is that the game happens SLOW. Not just "no Starcraft micro" slow, slow as in 30 minutes before any of the action actually starts happening slow. Apparently it's not even possible to "rush" your opponent or to attack him head on until you have an overwhelming force, and so most of the multiplayer (from what I've read) consists of two or more people playing Sim City until they have powerful lategame armies, and the winner of that battle usually taking the game. I'm sorry but that's incredibly boring for me, especially because it typically makes some of the early game stuff kind of worthless, and like Cyborg said, the unit variety seems a little low anyway.
Many of these concerns could be addressed by the developer in subsequent patches and some of them could be completely unfounded, but given what I've read, it may not be as wonderful as it looked at first sight.
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Wait...melee units in an RTS? Maybe I'm colored by my TotalA/SupCom background, but melee units sound like a big suicide unless it's a hulking behemoth of bajillions of HP (see Ultralisk) and even in Starcraft those are terrifyingly fast. Goo doesn't seem to be that kind of game, so the lack of melee doesn't bother me in the slightest.
As far as the gameplay, well Beta and Human are similar but I don't feel they PLAY similarly. Beta can expand wherever they freaking want, while Humans are stuck with ONE base, and a fragile one at that unless you build really cleverly. The Goo seems borderline overpowered if you are left alone by your opponent, but I can see how they would be very vulnerable to early harass (probably why the Formless Goo can defend themselves in melee). Goo also lacks ANY air power, as far as I have seen, so the key to keeping the Goo down is constant harassment, preferrably by air. But I've only played two skirmishes against the AI yet, so don't look to me for expert advice.
I dunno, the game is fun so far. But due to the lack of unit variety (there's 3 units in each class, so something like 9 units per faction) I can see the game eventually growing boring and stale. I do hope that the developers continue to balance and develop expansions. If they keep up, this game could definitely last. So far I like it a lot.
But do mind this is after just a few hours of skirmishing. And also mind that TotalBiscuit said straight up that the game has its flaws, but it's the best RTS to come out in YEARS (including Planetary Annihilation...man what a disappointment that was :( ) so I think it definitely has potential if cared for by the developers. Otherwise it's probably a good 20-30 hours of fun before it grows a bit stale. I'll keep play, personally. Especially the campaign, even though Skirmish and multiplayer against friends was always more my thing.
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Another concern I've been reading is that the game happens SLOW. Not just "no Starcraft micro" slow, slow as in 30 minutes before any of the action actually starts happening slow. Apparently it's not even possible to "rush" your opponent or to attack him head on until you have an overwhelming force,
Then those people aren't playing as well as the AI. TotalBiscuit's video on the game is 38 min long and in that time he gets in 2 skirmish games (that he concedes due to being overwhelmed) and has time to go through the options menu.
My guess as to why the reviewers may say stuff like that is that they a) aren't that great at RTS games in the first place* and b) they haven't had the time to properly learn the game yet. The ones who did most work probably played through the SP campaign and then had a couple of pvp matches. That's not because they're lazy, stupid or don't care about the game, but they have to not just play the game but also take notes and then either write an article or make + edit a video on it, at least if they don't want to sound like they have no idea what they're talking about. Those things take up time and they probably have a week at most to do it and they may have other games they need to cover in that time as well.
* Due to the rarity of games being released in the genre the last couple of years. Dedicated reviewers tend to not stick with any game for that long.
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Another concern I've been reading is that the game happens SLOW. Not just "no Starcraft micro" slow, slow as in 30 minutes before any of the action actually starts happening slow. Apparently it's not even possible to "rush" your opponent or to attack him head on until you have an overwhelming force,
Then those people aren't playing as well as the AI. TotalBiscuit's video on the game is 38 min long and in that time he gets in 2 skirmish games (that he concedes due to being overwhelmed) and has time to go through the options menu.
My guess as to why the reviewers may say stuff like that is that they a) aren't that great at RTS games in the first place* and b) they haven't had the time to properly learn the game yet. The ones who did most work probably played through the SP campaign and then had a couple of pvp matches. That's not because they're lazy, stupid or don't care about the game, but they have to not just play the game but also take notes and then either write an article or make + edit a video on it, at least if they don't want to sound like they have no idea what they're talking about. Those things take up time and they probably have a week at most to do it and they may have other games they need to cover in that time as well.
* Due to the rarity of games being released in the genre the last couple of years. Dedicated reviewers tend to not stick with any game for that long.
Yeah, I don't find the game slow either. It's definitely faster than SupCom, albeit not as frantic as Starcraft. But the games doesn't feel ardously long. That said, I haven't played that much yet. Also if the game is over after a single battle, I can't see any of the involved using much strategy if they just throw their deathblobs at eachother, hoping to win.
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For example, the humans are the experts at defense BUT their entire base has to be connected to the same powergrid, and since every map only has a relatively small starting area which is surrounded by cliffs and other obstacles, keeping your bases connected to the power grid can be quite difficult if not impossible
This is definitely a major problem (especially for building defenses), but.. humans do not need to expand beyond starting point. Refineries can have stealth harvesters and extractors can be built anywhere where there is resource and view. Basically humans only need troops at the expansions, because harvesters are not usually at risk of dieing. And Humans have teleportation, so you attack 1 of their extractors you might as well attack the main base. A force can instantly be teleported there. Especially for GOO this is a MAJOR issue. Because all it takes is 1 monitor (flying human scout) to find a goo, and then you press button and BAM human army sitting next to goo)
Another thing I've heard is that since the Goo basically have mobile "bases" (their units are their buildings), they can stall the game for minutes or hours while they continually replicate new units and spread them across the map making you search down each blob individually while the other blobs continue to reproduce.
Only mother goo can replicate to mother goo, and for that you need to sit on a geyser.. and it takes like 5 minutes to gain the resources for a mother goo which then needs ANOTHER geyser to ever actually produce units (during the time you can't produce other units either). Basically, a simple air force can instantly find the goo and harass it, more importantly find it and trace it over cliffs. The goo can stall games a bit, but if you were winning the goo won't ever make a come-back ;) Since your first action is likely to put a group of 5 tanks and 1 siege on each geysir, just to lock it down. And mother goo can't handle that.
Basically, I find the 3 races to be well balanced. And they are also quite different to play. Goo is the least fun to play actually, despite what the description makes it sound like. To have a base sitting on a geyser is very dangerous, because geysers often sit in open areas.
Funnily the 1 issue I have with this game is neither of these points, but rather that everything is so INCREDIBLY GENERIC and lacks an own style. Beta and Humans are story wise very very different, Humans are 500+ years ahead in technology in this game but the units are nearly identical. Only the epic units are a bit cooler, but especially the GOO epic unit is absolute useless (imo).
Sadly this is not really the game to revitalize the RTS genre, it is competent, but not great.
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Well, I don't think anyone has ever claimed it was the "next coming" in RTS, but merely "On of the best to come out in late years" which essentially means it's competent.
That said, I'm like you: I don't have any of the problems with the game that people seem to generally have, but rather that it's a touch bland and might play out it's fun in less hours than I'd like. But so far I'm having a lot of fun with it.
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I watched the Rank 1 in solo matchmaking play some games last night (a couple hours). It seems a lot of the claims of the reviewers and players I've read *were* unfounded.
The game is indeed more slow paced than say Starcraft 2, but it's still pretty action packed. It seems from minute one scouts are being sent across the map and small skirmishes escalate into larger engagements which eventually decide the game. Since there is effectively only one resource IN the game, controlling that resource is of extreme importance. The engagements themselves seemed pretty interesting, with micro playing a decent role but not an absolute one. Obviously this rank 1 player (tag Bikerush, an old Zero Hour vet) had SC2 level micro, but then again he's the best player in the entire game currently.
The game itself looked like a lot of fun. A nice balance between constant action while keeping micro as minimal as possible (though once again, still incredibly important). It did turn out to be true that the humans and the beta were indeed quite different in practice, even if their units functioned somewhat similarly. The only major problems I saw with the game were that, at this point, the humans seem a bit underpowered compared to the other two. Everytime I saw a human played (which was rarely) they got absolutely crushed. It just didn't seem like they could keep up with the production of the other two races and their defenses just weren't strong enough to develop enough of a foothold on the map to matter.
The graphics were another matter. This streamer, who I'm sure had a top of the line computer, had to put all the settings on low just to stream it, and even still there were visible hiccups and even total moments of screen freezing for several seconds during the bigger engagements.
Finally, the low variety of units did seem like it would get old after awhile, though it seems they went with the Blizzard "minimalist" approach to balancing, which does typically work better, and to those who have an interest in competitive play, I highly doubt the lack of units will much matter. Hopefully some future expansions can spice things up.
In terms of the uselessness of the Goo's "god tier" unit, which I haven't yet seen, one would hope that a future balance patch could fix that quite nicely.
All in all, looks like an incredibly fun game and definitely an important addition to the RTS genre. Still not willing to pay $50 but I might go with $40 or so if it goes on sale.
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As far as I've seen, the Purger (which like the other two epics you can have 2 of despite the epic classification, since 70 fits into 200 twice) is a giant AoE siege unit with no anti-air capability. It sends bits underground and smashes up things where you targetted it in a pretty significant area. (for comparison, the Hand of Ruk is similar to a Fatboy, and the Alpha has both giant laser and AA attacks)
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The Purger is a siege unit and is probably quite useless in actual COMBAT compared to the other two. But it will absolutely devastate any base it reaches. Humans are pretty much instantly boned if it reaches their base as it will destroy anything it touches with its "tentacles".
I've spent some more time playing, and I agree that humans have it very tough. Both in how their base is constrained, long supply lines to resources and limited space to build production.
Of all the problems humans suffer though, I'd say the reliance on ONE base to be the biggest one. It leads to excessive supply lines with harvesters that are easily harassed.
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It appears Grey Goo has had some drama (http://www.reddit.com/r/greygoo/comments/2tsh3b/bikerush_getting_rekt_by_huk/co1zdiu?context=10000) already, in the form of "Top twitch streamer for the game gets help from relatively good 2v2 player, challenges known SC2 players to grey goo match, streamcheats, rushes instead of trying to work with teammate, gets all BM about loss and blames teammate."
Kinda hoping someone knocks him off the top spot now, it doesn't feel like this is going to help the game any.
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Not entirely sure that's a Grey Goo drama. That's just common celebrity bullshit xD
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I find both parties extremely obnoxious and would never watch a stream by them, so yeah ;p
Ps.: Ghosting is cheating, which means he should be banned.
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I find both parties extremely obnoxious and would never watch a stream by them, so yeah ;p
I only watched a little bit of both and I'd still agree they're obnoxious as heck.
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Given it a fair few hours of gameplay and I'll say it's solid. It's not revolutionary in any way, even though the factions are very unique and distinct from eachother. But it's fun and has solid mechanics. It's easy to consider a unit or a faction "OP", but I've noticed that it's mostly down to lack of understanding.
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Alright it's been about 2 months and the company just released their first huge balance patch a couple days ago.
How do you guys feel now that a little time has passed? Is anybody still playing it? I heard that the multiplayer servers are a bit empty which scares me from wanting to purchase it.
I found a deal online for about half the retail price. Would it be worth it even in the worst case scenario that single player was all I could reliably play?
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I'm playing it against the AI now and then, and whenever I can coerce my friends into playing with me (I usually win, so they're reluctant to). I've yet not had any time to adapt to the changes. Because they're sweeping, yet subtle at the same time... I NEVER play these kinds of games against random people on the Internet, so I can't talk about the online community.
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Why don't you play against random people on the Internet?
If you've never played an RTS online before, maybe you wouldn't know that people within the 1v1 RTS community are usually pretty intelligent, respectful, educated people. In all my time playing online RTS, I don't think I've ever encountered a single douchebag or rude person that I can remember.
I think it's an intellectualism thing. The genre weeds out the idiots pretty quick, and so the only people left are typically those with enough sense to not only be decent at the game, but also the importance of manners and good behavior as well. I think Starcraft was the game in which the polite and now universal gesture of "good game" was first invented. It's kind of an unspoken rule that you're nice to one another in these types of games, though one can argue that fellowship and respect between enemy commanders goes back as far as human history.
Anyway, the MOBAs are the breeding grounds for the pseudo-intellectual community. The people who couldn't hack it at RTS but can handle controlling one unit with 4 abilities. That's typically where all those types end up.
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I think the primary reason is because it's just cheese cheese cheese and a bit of more cheese in online play. People just want to "pwn nubs" rather than have a fun game so I'm not really that keen on 1v1 online. I think the only such game I play is Shadow Era, and even then I play very rarely.
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I play Wargame public 10vs10, and it's vile Gehenna as far as manners, intelligence or cooperation go. A game making great demands of the players does not "weed out the idiots".
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I think the primary reason is because it's just cheese cheese cheese and a bit of more cheese in online play. People just want to "pwn nubs" rather than have a fun game so I'm not really that keen on 1v1 online.
Part of the problem for me is that many people playing competetively seem to disregard a random opponent on the internet as a person, but instead treat others as if they were merely AI opponents with a slightly higher skill (or lower if the competetive player is winning). Some of these people often also have an inflated sense of their own skill level, possibly having constructed an elaborate tale about what they expect to accomplish (likely after viewing some videos of either a pro player or someone failing lots).
When they fail to win it's not their own fault, rather they got cheated by the system/their faceless opponent. Losing with grace is not part of their reaction.
If you then put those very same players up against someone they can put a face on, their reactions become much more dignified.
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It probably goes without saying, but 10v10 is a whole different beast than 1v1, and attracts a much different crowd of people.
It seems that a lot of people who play those kinds of modes do it for the main purpose of not having to take personal responsibility for a loss when there's 9 other people to blame. When it's 1v1 all of the onus is on you, and I find that the people with this kind of courage usually to be of superior character.
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It probably goes without saying, but 10v10 is a whole different beast than 1v1, and attracts a much different crowd of people.
It seems that a lot of people who play those kinds of modes do it for the main purpose of not having to take personal responsibility for a loss when there's 9 other people to blame. When it's 1v1 all of the onus is on you, and I find that the people with this kind of courage usually to be of superior character.
I see you haven't played much League Joust ;)
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It probably goes without saying, but 10v10 is a whole different beast than 1v1, and attracts a much different crowd of people.
It seems that a lot of people who play those kinds of modes do it for the main purpose of not having to take personal responsibility for a loss when there's 9 other people to blame. When it's 1v1 all of the onus is on you, and I find that the people with this kind of courage usually to be of superior character.
Or Ranked Starcraft 2. >_<
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I've played quite a bit of ranked SC2, never had a bad experience. Maybe I'm just lucky.
League of Legends is not an RTS.
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I've played quite a bit of ranked SC2, never had a bad experience. Maybe I'm just lucky.
League of Legends is not an RTS.
Actually he was talking about SMITE but anyway.
I've had plenty of good and bad experiences in too many genres (including RTS) of online play to see any group as better or worse than the others. Except LoL, that place be toxic as heck ;P. There are plenty of jerks to be found just as there are plenty of decent people.
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Another concern I've been reading is that the game happens SLOW. Not just "no Starcraft micro" slow, slow as in 30 minutes before any of the action actually starts happening slow. Apparently it's not even possible to "rush" your opponent or to attack him head on until you have an overwhelming force, and so most of the multiplayer (from what I've read) consists of two or more people playing Sim City until they have powerful lategame armies, and the winner of that battle usually taking the game.
Sounds like Sins of Solar Empire :)
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So is this mostly multiplayer affair, or does it have appeal to people who prefer single player?
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So is this mostly multiplayer affair, or does it have appeal to people who prefer single player?
There is 15 levels of campaign, and a whole lot of multiplayer complaints last I checked.
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Campaign is decently challenging, cutscenes are AWESOME (beautiful work on those) and story is surprisingly interesting the further it goes on.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7T2hb_Y-Hw
I did a 30 minute race overview of the game, attempting to give about 10 minutes for each race because they are so individual and unique. It may answer some of the questions you have about the game, take a look if you're interested.
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This game makes you realize why old-school RTS games were so much fun, and why it is the old classical design that works best. The best part about Grey Goo is that it is won or lost at the strategic level. The game doesn't go on for too long whether you're a single player mission on a one-on-one scenario or are a part of one of those exciting multiplayer skirmishes - it is all over in 20 to 30 minutes and never once becomes monotonous.
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http://store.steampowered.com/news/18849/
Grey Goo Free Weekend starting today, and also you can grab the game for 66% off the purchase price (so $20).
I highly recommend checking it out if you're a fan of the old C&C RTS style.
This is one of the best RTS games to come out within the past decade. It's a good balance between grand strategy, micromanagement, and reacting to your opponent, without too much emphasis on any one aspect.
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Has it gotten any improvements since release?
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Yes, its gotten a ton of balance changes, new multiplayer maps, new single player content and performance improvements. I haven't checked it out since their last major balance change though so I don't know how that worked out but it's still getting continual post-release support from the developers.
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Tested it today. The game was pretty fun to play, it was surprising to see that walls have that much impact in the game (in a genre where walls have been mostly devolved).
Won't buy it though, low on money this month.
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Has it gotten any improvements since release?
There's an additional campaign (short DLC) and there have been a MASSIVE balance pass, but nothing outside of that which shakes the world. Tiny touches, bugfixes, balance passes etc etc. The core gameplay is still there and was solid even back then.
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Suddenly out of nowhere (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdixB-dVx9c).
Free DLC including an entire new faction. Well then. Also a price drop to €29.99. Also, judging from their Youtube channel, there are apparently quite a bit of action in the ranked scene and they've had several tournaments with $10 000+ rewards. That's...more than I expected. Perhaps Grey Goo still has a chance? I still enjoy playing it so.
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Good for them!
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HOLY SHIT!!!
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HOLY SHIT!!!
That's pretty much my reaction too. Summed up in fever words. ^^
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So after a few games with the new faction I can only say WOW THEY ARE FREAKING COOL! Also I have no idea how to use them. They lack the traditional niche units (Tank/Frontline, Antitank, harasser, air fighter, bomber) and all their units are very unique and weird. However, that makes army composition super difficult. My biggest problem with them is the lack of a strong front line. The Klaxon seems far too squishy to be a frontline, but looking at its stats it's comparable to the Goo Destructor and those things just never die. So perhaps it's me using them wrong.
I'm liking this expansion a lot. The Shroud is really a fresh air to the game and the genre in general. It's just...extremely weird to play a faction that has none of the bog-standard type units. Heck, their air-to-air fighter is a kamikaze bomb that can also target ground. Their long-range bomber is a unit transport that uses units for ammo! They're just every kind of weird.
Their strength is easily their numbers. It's super easy to pump out bajillions of light units in a very short time once you get an economy going. Their epic unit is also ridiculus once it gets off the ground. Their anti-air is very strong as they stun airplanes entirely for a duration.
Weaknesses include lack of strong frontline, weak T1 units, lack of in-field stealth detection without upgrades, slow to get off the ground early game and severe lack of great harassment potential early on, leading to a difficult game against Goo. I imagine profilic use of the Supercharger on T1 units and sending out harassment squads would help.
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So after a few games with the new faction I can only say WOW THEY ARE FREAKING COOL! Also I have no idea how to use them. They lack the traditional niche units (Tank/Frontline, Antitank, harasser, air fighter, bomber) and all their units are very unique and weird. However, that makes army composition super difficult. My biggest problem with them is the lack of a strong front line. The Klaxon seems far too squishy to be a frontline, but looking at its stats it's comparable to the Goo Destructor and those things just never die. So perhaps it's me using them wrong.
I'm liking this expansion a lot. The Shroud is really a fresh air to the game and the genre in general. It's just...extremely weird to play a faction that has none of the bog-standard type units. Heck, their air-to-air fighter is a kamikaze bomb that can also target ground. Their long-range bomber is a unit transport that uses units for ammo! They're just every kind of weird.
Their strength is easily their numbers. It's super easy to pump out bajillions of light units in a very short time once you get an economy going. Their epic unit is also ridiculus once it gets off the ground. Their anti-air is very strong as they stun airplanes entirely for a duration.
Weaknesses include lack of strong frontline, weak T1 units, lack of in-field stealth detection without upgrades, slow to get off the ground early game and severe lack of great harassment potential early on, leading to a difficult game against Goo. I imagine profilic use of the Supercharger on T1 units and sending out harassment squads would help.
The new faction is indeed very cool.
For better or for worse, the Klaxon is their frontline "tank" unit. Though if you're facing the Goo, it would probably be worth choosing to remove the "charge" ability, and choosing the upgrade to give it more armor when massed. You don't want them 'accidentally' charging into the formless Goo.
Actually, all 3 of the Shroud 'Tier 2' units play the "tank" role in their own way. The Klaxon simply has a lot of health and armor, comparatively. The Echo forces the enemy to focus fire on its attack, within a fairly large radius. The Fugue (this name always makes me think of Breaking Bad lol) creates little units which can act as bullet sponges in a prolonged battle.
So in a way, the Shroud disperse and delineate damage in a unique and tactical manner. In this way they are similar to the Beta, who also doesn't have a particularly suitable "tank" unit. The Predator has decent stats, but is specifically designed to move while firing to avoid taking damage. The Humans had a similar problem, but I have to say that the Valiant has a godlike damage absorption mechanic, even keeping formless Goo out of the bubble.
In terms of how their T1 units compare, I need to do some more testing. They are the only faction that has a basic T1 unit with an aoe attack (Howler), which seems huge in early skirmishes. The armor reduction of the Clasher may be nearly useless in this regard, but no more useless than the armor penetration of the Beta Stalker, the Human Revolver, or the Goo Strider, which all truly begin to shine as the game progresses. The only disadvantage I can see is that the Shroud T1 units seem more expensive, or perhaps they simply take longer to build because of their early-game economic mechanics.
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I've had some time to play more now and the Klaxon fairs fairly well if you mass them as a frontline. Sure, they will charge into formless goo and take damage but a couple (say 4+) Klaxons charging into even a Mother Goo will do HUGE amounts of damage with their cone spray. I agree that against a Goo it's probably better to go the armor sync upgrade rather than relying on charge. The charge IS hugely useful on artillery though. Charging through enemy lines and nailing those Crescents is a wonderful thing.
I've also noticed that a couple of Clashers mixed in with Howlers is ridiculously strong early game. The Clashers act as a front line (they have decent health) and shred the armor of the targets, while the Howlers deal damage from the back line. The AoE plus armor shred really makes a huge difference. The drawback is that the DPS of the Howlers is very low due to their refire rate, so it's not ideal for extended engagements. But it's easy to deliver a powerful first strike that makes the opponent think twice about the engagement.
Once you get the Supercharger, Howlers are devastating against pretty much anything.
As far as economy goes, I've never really felt that they have a problem expanding their economy. The hard part is finding a balance in how many Advents (and upgrades) you need. Because of how ridiculously long it takes to build units, you really need 3-4 Advents with 2 Amps and AT LEAST 2 Crucibles with 2 Amps. Generally I find one Zenith to be enough. Air doesn't seem to be something you need to spam, unless you have tons of resources and spam kamikazes.
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I think it's really innovative that they require you to have your resources in advance before you can build things. That's an interesting mechanic change from the Humans and the Beta who can create the endless queues, significantly decreasing the micromanagement required.
900 resources for a Shroud Extractor is pretty steep, but on the bright side, no Harvesters means that the player in some ways in not as vulnerable to economic harassment. The fact that the Extractors can move is pretty neat too.
All in all, the Shroud seems to be a neat combination of the Human and the Goo, taking some of the best elements of both races and combining them into one.
Upon release of the new patch, there were substantial balance changes as well, and so far I'm really liking those too. The Predator and Gladius losing their armor penetration, in addition to the new units for the existing factions, seems to have really shaken up the build patterns that you encounter in multiplayer. Before the Predator and Gladius were kind of a jack-of-all-trades unit that players would spam, but now that they've lost their armor penetration, they fare quite badly against many targets which forces the player to be more versatile.
I keep up with the Grey Goo competitive tournaments, so I'm super excited to see what the games are like with the new balance changes and the addition of a new race. It should be awesome.
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900 resources for a Shroud Extractor is pretty steep, but on the bright side, no Harvesters means that the player in some ways in not as vulnerable to economic harassment. The fact that the Extractors can move is pretty neat too.
Wasn't this an overall change? I thought Beta/Human refs cost 900 too now. Or maybe that was just the health slash...yeah, it was probably the slashed health that applied to Beta/Human too.
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are there any channels were I can watch matches of this game? I prefer watching rts to playing them(the last one I actually played was supreme commander 1 and I was the utter worst at it) and this game looks incredibly interesting (a transport that fires its units for instance that's a first for sure).
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are there any channels were I can watch matches of this game? I prefer watching rts to playing them(the last one I actually played was supreme commander 1 and I was the utter worst at it) and this game looks incredibly interesting (a transport that fires its units for instance that's a first for sure).
None that I know of. But here's what I could find on Twitch (http://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Grey%20Goo/videos/week).
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are there any channels were I can watch matches of this game? I prefer watching rts to playing them(the last one I actually played was supreme commander 1 and I was the utter worst at it) and this game looks incredibly interesting (a transport that fires its units for instance that's a first for sure).
None that I know of. But here's what I could find on Twitch (http://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Grey%20Goo/videos/week).
that'll work thanks.
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are there any channels were I can watch matches of this game? I prefer watching rts to playing them(the last one I actually played was supreme commander 1 and I was the utter worst at it) and this game looks incredibly interesting (a transport that fires its units for instance that's a first for sure).
Check out the official Grey Goo Youtube channel managed by the company.
https://www.youtube.com/user/greygoogame/playlists
So far they have 4 tournaments posted in playlist format.
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are there any channels were I can watch matches of this game? I prefer watching rts to playing them(the last one I actually played was supreme commander 1 and I was the utter worst at it) and this game looks incredibly interesting (a transport that fires its units for instance that's a first for sure).
Check out the official Grey Goo Youtube channel managed by the company.
https://www.youtube.com/user/greygoogame/playlists
So far they have 4 tournaments posted in playlist format.
Hmm, thanks, I'll keep my eye on this. I've kinda lost my RTS tournament media lately and Grey Goo might be something to cut my teeth on.
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are there any channels were I can watch matches of this game? I prefer watching rts to playing them(the last one I actually played was supreme commander 1 and I was the utter worst at it) and this game looks incredibly interesting (a transport that fires its units for instance that's a first for sure).
Check out the official Grey Goo Youtube channel managed by the company.
https://www.youtube.com/user/greygoogame/playlists
So far they have 4 tournaments posted in playlist format.
thanks twitch tends to stutter to death when I'm trying to watch past broadcasts on twitch.
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If any of you RTS fans haven't gotten around to trying Grey Goo, I'd recommend picking it up with the most recent Humble Bundle. $12 for the game plus a whole slew of other interesting strategy titles. Pretty great deal if you ask me.
https://www.humblebundle.com/jumbo-bundle-6
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I already saw it on my newsletter, I'm currently waiting for my monthly income to come by (it takes some time this month) and will then purchase it. Grey Goo for 12$ (less in Germany, as always) with all it's DLCs sounds pretty good to me. I skipped it when it was on the sale for 50% reduction and now I'm glad because that's a lot lower plkus I got a lot of other games with it. Hooray!
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Is the single player fun?
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Is the single player fun?
I've had a lot of people sample the single player campaign (pretty much all my friends own it), and have had nothing but good things to say. The cinematic cutscenes are top-notch, and the story itself is interesting (if not life-changing). The missions are usually pretty fast-paced as well. It's better than your average RTS campaign as far as gameplay goes, but nothing spectacular either.
As far as the Skirmish AI, there are many different difficulties to chose from (some of which cheat blatantly), so that should offer plenty of challenge in that regard.
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I've played one campaign mission and a fragment of a multiplayer (coop vs. ai) game and I recommend the game. I just haven't had time to play any more of it.
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But it looks so slow!
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But it looks so slow!
In terms of the multiplayer, the games are actually really fast. I'm not sure what you're basing your first impression on, but I honestly challenge you to find a faster-pace RTS in terms of game length or percentage of the game you actually spend fighting. It tends to be a bloodbath.
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But it looks so slow!
I picked it up in the Humble Bundle, and my pace in RTS games is fairly slow and methodical and even I complete the longer campaign missions in 30-45 minutes at most (with the "Hunt down every last Mother Goo" ones taking the longest). As a comparison, several of the StarCraft/BroodWar missions took me 1 hour or more and SupCom1 missions were even slower.
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But it looks so slow!
So play Starcraft? Grey Goo is for another type of RTS gamer entirely. The one that does not like twitch skills, activatable abilities and obsessive microing.
Okay, less obnoxious reply here:
It only looks slow because unit movement it slow. The game itself can be surprisingly fast paced and games are very often over within 20-30 minutes tops in multiplayer. The slow unit movement forces you to make real strategic choices as you can't easily adapt to enemy movements, increasing the value of up-to-date intel on enemy movements. Very much like Surpreme Commander.
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It may appear slow from gameplay trailers, but I assure you it's not. I think Man was even being lenient on the average game duration. Many games are over in less than 5 minutes. Goo rush is an incredibly effective strategy.
This is coming from a person who played Starcraft2 ranked and achieved Diamond for a time. The game unfolds very quickly, even faster than Starcraft did, but its design is much more centered around strategy and out maneuvering your opponent than micromanagement and build orders.
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Is the single player fun?
The campaign is reasonable but flawed. Story is a bit....lets just say there's holes in the writing. It's enjoyable enough if you take it at face value. As for the missions themselves, they've got a pretty nice variety to them but the difficulty is rather high even on easy. It could be better but it could also be worse.
As for the multiplayer, Wingflier and Managarmr said what I would have said.
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Is the single player fun?
The campaign is reasonable but flawed. Story is a bit....lets just say there's holes in the writing. It's enjoyable enough if you take it at face value. As for the missions themselves, they've got a pretty nice variety to them but the difficulty is rather high even on easy. It could be better but it could also be worse.
I think the reason why it's flawed is because it feels rushed. It doesn't take its time to dive into the personalities and motivations of characters beyond the skin-deep stereotype so some acts or decisions by characters are rather weird and seemingly "out of character".
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Is the single player fun?
The campaign is reasonable but flawed. Story is a bit....lets just say there's holes in the writing. It's enjoyable enough if you take it at face value. As for the missions themselves, they've got a pretty nice variety to them but the difficulty is rather high even on easy. It could be better but it could also be worse.
I think the reason why it's flawed is because it feels rushed. It doesn't take its time to dive into the personalities and motivations of characters beyond the skin-deep stereotype so some acts or decisions by characters are rather weird and seemingly "out of character".
Yea I think that's right and its disappointing too because these characters clearly had a decent amount of thought put into them.
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To be a stick in the mud, I did not find my jive when it was on that free weekend.
It is very well possible it takes more then a weekend to really get into it, but my backlog is long enough already including the games that *do* jive at the start.
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To be a stick in the mud, I did not find my jive when it was on that free weekend.
It is very well possible it takes more then a weekend to really get into it, but my backlog is long enough already including the games that *do* jive at the start.
Not everyone has to like it. It's got flaws there's no doubt about it, and it's hardly the second coming of christ as far as RTSs go, but considering recent RTS releases...it's heads and shoulders above everything else...and still just decent. It speaks more about the state of the RTS genre than anything else. I'm cautiously interested in Ashes of the Singularity though...although there's another thread for that.
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I just don't agree that the RTS games made within the past several years have been underwhelming at all, especially when compared to other genres.
Hell, just look at MMOs, they haven't changed at all for the past 15 years. Literally almost no innovation whatsoever. Look at fighting games. Look at competitive first person shooters. As if those titles have been any better? I can't think of a single genre off the top of my head that, within the past 5 years, that has done anything amazing. The exception to this might be the roguelike genre, which has been producing game after game of innovative excellence (FTL, Darkest Dungeon, anything related to XCOM, etc.)
But the RTS games that have come out in that time have been solid, or have been re-released/remastered in such a way that its major flaws were addressed. Company of Heroes 2, PA: Titans, Grey Goo, Starcraft 2 (and expansions), Dawn of War 2, Wargame: Red Dragon, and now even Act of Aggression has been revamped to satisfy its audience.
Perhaps people's standards are too high? Really I think the greatest problem with the RTS genre nowadays is simply the lack of interest, not the quality of the games themselves.
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I think the problem is too many studios try and make games that fit perfectly inside a genre box, instead of making fun games people want to play. When I hear "X game is a <genre>" as the first sentence out of a developers mouth, that tell me a lot, and none of it good. If the best thing he can say about his game is what genre it belongs to, that's really sad. Genres are more about marketing, and trying to fit a game concept into one of a preset number of marketing boxes generally doesn't end well for innovation.