What happens if you don't get the (AIP) memo?

[Aklyon]

Maybe it doesn't report carrier numbers to keep the everyone else (aside from you the general) from fainting of panic?

[Zeyurn]

It's especially annoying that 1 carrier doesn't seem to count as 1000 troops for an AI eye either but at least you can pop it at that point if it isn't too far away.  (Although it's a bit annoying when 15k carriered ships are blocking the wormhole)  But I object to a statistic that's knowingly false!  The terrified people can just not look at that screen

It's a minor nit but I thought of it when I looked

[keith.lamothe]

Haha, some pretty intense screenshots there.  Though I wonder if you've tried more than 3HWs for a fortress ball.  On 16HWs the forts get quite absurd, though that gets to chugging hard on singleplayer and adding MP may just be too much.

Keith:  I don't know if you have any questions about what we do to just blitz stuff but if you have any questions about any of our methods and such, feel free to ask.

I'm curious about the methods but I'm not seeing results outside what I'd expect from 3 well-coordinated players.  1 player with 3 HWs might be able to do similarly, too.

In general taking planets is not hard, and dealing with absurd forces (like 64k mkIV ships or whatever) is more a matter of having the right tools and using them the right way rather than meeting brute force with brute force.  But there's theory and there's execution, the latter being more rare

It brings back old memories of 1.x when we didn't realize you and Chris even assumed AIP was something to avoid and we would take every planet each game.

I wasn't even working with Arcen in the 1.x days   I played AIW, but January 2010 was when I started helping part-time.

Anyway, glad the "AIP?" method of play has been amusing at least some folks all this time

[Cinth]

On 16HWs the forts get quite absurd.

 

[Zeyurn]

Haha, some pretty intense screenshots there.  Though I wonder if you've tried more than 3HWs for a fortress ball.  On 16HWs the forts get quite absurd, though that gets to chugging hard on singleplayer and adding MP may just be too much.

Keith:  I don't know if you have any questions about what we do to just blitz stuff but if you have any questions about any of our methods and such, feel free to ask.

I'm curious about the methods but I'm not seeing results outside what I'd expect from 3 well-coordinated players.  1 player with 3 HWs might be able to do similarly, too.

In general taking planets is not hard, and dealing with absurd forces (like 64k mkIV ships or whatever) is more a matter of having the right tools and using them the right way rather than meeting brute force with brute force.  But there's theory and there's execution, the latter being more rare

It brings back old memories of 1.x when we didn't realize you and Chris even assumed AIP was something to avoid and we would take every planet each game.

I wasn't even working with Arcen in the 1.x days   I played AIW, but January 2010 was when I started helping part-time.

Anyway, glad the "AIP?" method of play has been amusing at least some folks all this time

We finished a new session and I have new screenshots but I'm tired so I'll annotate and post them tomorrow.

I think 3 players with 1 homeworld each is considerably easier than 1 player with 3, for a few reasons:

1)  Unless this has changed, 3 players with 1 HW have triple the energy that 1 player with 3 HW has.  This is important when it comes to setting up Forts!
2)  Unlike the AI, we are merely human, and it is hard to split our attention as many ways.  3 reasonable players can split their focus a lot easier, as well as split their forces a lot easier.
3)  Knowledge Diversification.  You see a lot of people complaining here that some things aren't worth the K cost to keep up with AI firepower but when you have 3 people it completely makes sense to split research around and get things that you wouldn't necessarily want a whole cap of with a 3 HW.  Hardened/regular force fields are a godsend for counterattack warps, logistic 3s behind your main front line can prevent teleporting leakage, etc etc etc.

The absolute best thing for high AIP games is the SuperTerminal though, by far.  We lowered the progress from 1250 to 450 (we stopped about 30ish below the floor I want to say) with it this game...  I'll post screenshots again of it in process but given some of the forum signaturesI think you know what to expect.  I kept hoping for something beyond (Forest Fire!) in the hacking though, maybe... 'Please stop abusing the SuperTerminal dagnabit!!'?   It does take a serious serious effort to do it that hard though..

I suspect you're right in general that the important thing is just that we coordinate and communicate.  This was a really refreshing game that's in the final stages where the AI has literally no hope and our opinion is still that it was leagues easier than our 10/10 game we played with superweapons and a 100% resource bonus.  (Figured we should earn Double Paragon before Double Godlike!)  I've always been appreciative that the balancing act you guys do has always kept high AIP possible.

I think we're done with 120 planet maps after this though, sooo laggy in the end game.

[Laelia]

And the Progress (haha) report:

Colonized: 100/120
Current AIP: 1018
Fronts: 2
Science unlocked: Everything

It took us 40 minutes to kill the special forces, but despite my urging the others to nuke it, we played it straight and took it down 1-2 carriers at a time.  We'll probably finish up this game this weekend.

[Winge]

Nice.  I've been playing part-time, so I'm only at 9 planets right now.  That said, I'm almost ready to up the ante to 20 planets...I've basically neutered the entire sector around home.

I do have one request for advice.  So far, I've found two ARS, no ST in sight.  The first ARS has Electric Bombers, Mini-rams, and Blade Spawners.  The second has Chameleons, Tanks, and Bombards.  I plan to hack the first one for Mini-rams (normally I would go for the Blade Spawners, but the AI started with Gravity Drains ).  Would it be worth hacking the second ARS for Bombards, or should I just stick with the Chameleons?

For reference, my bonus ship is the (absolutely wonderful and hilarious) Nanoswarm.  The AI has Paralyzers, MLRS, Gravity Drains, and Spire Tractor Platforms.

[PokerChen]

I do have one request for advice.  So far, I've found two ARS, no ST in sight.  The first ARS has Electric Bombers, Mini-rams, and Blade Spawners.  The second has Chameleons, Tanks, and Bombards.  I plan to hack the first one for Mini-rams (normally I would go for the Blade Spawners, but the AI started with Gravity Drains ).  Would it be worth hacking the second ARS for Bombards, or should I just stick with the Chameleons?

For reference, my bonus ship is the (absolutely wonderful and hilarious) Nanoswarm.  The AI has Paralyzers, MLRS, Gravity Drains, and Spire Tractor Platforms.

Since you've decided to have mini-rams, then Chameleons are an okay choice. Although, wouldn't you rather avoid mini-rams as well because they'll also get slowed down by the grav drainers?  I would personally consider taking the elec bombers on the chin and hack for bombards, or hack both. You want something to definitively take down both the grav drains and tractor plats (nanoswarms will take care of the rest).

[Zeyurn]

It's incredibly infuriating that the AI has unlocked Gravity Drains early in the last 5 games we've played.  Despite that, they're not as bad as they used to be, still take the Blade Spawners if you're going to hack the first 1.

Zombards are amazing but if you want a crazy superterminal run to help with AIP I wouldn't hack more than 1 ARS. 

Our current list of 'must always hack for' includes Sentinel Frigates, Blade Spawners, Neinzul Scapegoats, Beam Frigates, and Tackle Drones.  After this game I'd probably angle for a Spire Corvette too.


And now, some pictures!

[Zeyurn]

Pictures Mk 2 from last night, showing where we've ended up.  If you didn't know coming in you might accidentally think the AI and us were opposite sides

[Aklyon]

Its not exactly like the game keith said in the OP (I'm playing on 6/6 because I wanted to try out champions and a couple other things, and its not even that far into the game yet), but it certainly fits the theme of the thread. This is next to the planet I had left with a warp gate for waves.

Certainly is being good kiting practice though

[Winge]

Since you've decided to have mini-rams, then Chameleons are an okay choice. Although, wouldn't you rather avoid mini-rams as well because they'll also get slowed down by the grav drainers?  I would personally consider taking the elec bombers on the chin and hack for bombards, or hack both. You want something to definitively take down both the grav drains and tractor plats (nanoswarms will take care of the rest).

Yes, the Gravity Drains will slow down the Mini-rams.  However, there is one thing I can do with Mini-rams that I cannot do with Blade Spawners:  Cloak them.  Under cloak, I can use them to make assassinations (relatively) easy.  I definitely agree that Zombards would be very valuable against the Gravity Drains.  I have (mostly captured) Missile Frigates, but those have to get a bit close for my tastes.  I suppose if I do get Electric Bombers, I could combine them with the 'Starship' Fleet.  They are immune to Insta-kill and have a moderately low cap; both of which are factors to be included in that elite group.  Not immune to reclamation, though.  I would treat Chameleons just like Bombers...well, until I run into a Fortress anyways.  They aren't bad, they just aren't amazing either.

@Zeyurn
The only reason I am even considering hacking both ARS is because I don't know if the AI even has a ST.  I might shift gears and get either Scout Starship IV or a Scout IV (I have intel on an Adv. Fac) to be sure.  120 planets is a lot of ground to scout; I think I've only seen about 1/3 - 1/2 of the galaxy.

Its not exactly like the game keith said in the OP (I'm playing on 6/6 because I wanted to try out champions and a couple other things, and its not even that far into the game yet), but it certainly fits the theme of the thread. This is next to the planet I had left with a warp gate for waves.

Certainly is being good kiting practice though

The force is strong with this one...

[Zeyurn]

I'm way too lazy to deal with cloaking stuff except to draw 20k of special forces away from a wormhole so my real force can go in or using a Neinzul champion, so I'll defer to expertise there.

I've never been a fan of any ship whose range is under 5k due to their relative uselessness against ridiculously large blobs of enemies, I much prefer long range sniping/kiting.

I tried assassinating stuff with cloaked ships in this game (I reclaimed a bunch of theirs with parasites and I have a space plane V fab) but they have teleport leeches and teleport battle stations so it's basically

1)  Cloaked ships drift happily through defenses
2)  Cloaked ships fire on and take out guardpost
3)  300 teleporting ships appear and destroy cloaked ships.

[Winge]

It depends a lot on what ship you are using.  In this case, I would be combining Mini-rams with Cloakers.  Since Mini-rams are suicide units, I would only have to worry about the fallout from whatever they destroy.  Works wonders against Core Guard Posts--if you can get them past the Core worlds, of course.  Space Planes do fairly well, since they are very fast and have a Radar Dampening range less than their attack range.  Because of that, they absolutely destroy stationary targets and can freely kite most others.  My experience with many other cloaked ships is similar to yours.  I can see teleporting units being a hindrance as well.  Actually, it seems that you and I have similar preferences .

Still clearing out a few worlds (up to 13, about to cap 2-3 more within an hour of play or so...the next wave might be an eye opener), so I haven't decided which ARS, if either, to hack.  I won't do anything final until I know for sure whether or not there is a ST lurking somewhere.


Update edit:  There is no Superterminal.  Too bad; I plan to take over the whole universe...I could really use the AIP reduction.  Since K-hacking will be nearly useless for this type of game, I think I will hack both ARS Stations.  After I do a bit more spring cleaning...

[LordSloth]

So, minor status update:

I'm not sure steam announcements work any more or not. So, I didn't have to update my game for co-op play.

A nuke has been used to deal with 2000+ threat from a CPA I just didn't want to bother with, I was tired, and didn't notice an additional two thousand ships hit my worlds during the meantime. Due to inattention rather than difficulty, I rolled back.

My bombers (MkIV, supported by mk1-4 of fighter and missile) have been dying off horribly, I presume because the 400 AIP unlock was Zenith Reprocessors, and I'll need to adjust blob tactics to keep them alive a little longer, especially with all the maws. I might have to be smarter about my blob use....

I still don't have my advanced starship constructor, but I do have MKV leech starships if I bother to use them, MKV Vampire Claws, one ARS, and impending access to a system that was formerly covered by a superfortress but had MKV Raid Starships and MKV Snipers. Once I get Krypton (the planet with 620 hostile ships) cleared out, it should be a quick sweep to flip the southern systems. With everything to my rear secured, I'll be able to migrate my defenses forward - although I probably should have done that before...

Anything interesting learned? While reprocessors go down like anything else, they are a thing to be feared (by your polycrystal hulls). AI superforts are horrifying if your bombers have been eaten up entirely while you still have 300-400 fighters and frigates on the field, and hostile reinforcements are on their way towards your previously assumed safe rallying point. Now I need to decide between Decloakers and Scout Starships, but since I already have anti-sniper coverage from the Cloaker Starships...

Oh, and just because a former system of yours reports as clear, doesn't mean you should send in a rebuilder and try to put it back together. I might have rebuilt that command a half dozen times before I realized the... implications of lacking any scouting intel on a neutral planet. And went derp. Well, to be fair, it was shortly after I hit 401 AIP, and the AI'd just unlocked it's first stealth (non-camo bomber) ship.

What else? I'd cleared a few systems enroute to the advanced starship constructor before switching to my back systems. I'm not particularily looking forward to traveling through systems with 800+ ships, a good portion of which must be maws and reprocs. But then again, I've got warheads. I'll even try to be good and not nuke the next CPA, but... you never know.

Spider fleetship is very nice. They've been fantastic, and thanks to my minimal casulties and cloaking, a better choice than Forcefield Bearers. Now that reprocs have started wiping out an entire cap of mk1-4 bombers before I realize quite what is happening (AI giving me a taste of my own cloaking medicine), I'm starting to regret the choice. I do hope a decloaker unlock and some more careful positioning (fighters forward) should fix this problem. I kind of liked Operation: Troll the AI more than Operation: Reprocess the Human. In their defense, killing reproc engines has stopped those from running rampant quite a few times, and allowed me to defeat the AI force in detail quite a few times.

I'm deciding whether doubling down with high mark riots and spider turrets would just be sensless overkill or great fun.