Author Topic: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...  (Read 120127 times)

Offline Otagan

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #210 on: September 18, 2010, 01:24:25 am »
Anyway, the reason I brought it up was to see if there was anything we could learn from it.  The ship design screen actually reminds me of my own plans for a UI to manage ship modules and that kind of thing (don't want go into too much detail, I'm bad about saying I'll do xyz and while it's quite doable I just don't find time for a while, etc), though of course ours wouldn't be that involved since the underlying tactical simulation doesn't do stuff like directional damage, per-module power management, etc.

Funny thing: Star Ruler doesn't have directional damage or individual module adjustment, either.  At the moment, at least, the ship design screen is basically just defining stats for a ship class you want to build, and the location of the components has no bearing on either the appearance or performance of the ship you are designing.

The tech web idea also sounds interesting though I don't think AI War's tech system could readily be changed into a tree or web, nor do I think Chris would buy that it should ;)

And Chris would be right in that case.  The tech system in Star Ruler is entirely too random and simplistic to fit into AI War and be effective.  I don't think players would like dumping 10,000 knowledge points and 8 minutes of research time into a generic combat ship category only to constantly get everything but those tier 3 bombers they want.

psuedo-edit: Interesting info, Otagan; looking at their production values (i.e. all that 3D art) I had wondered how they managed it as an indie.  I guess the answer is "by the hair of their chinny-chin-chin" ;)  But assuming they make good on the design, etc, I'm glad they did.
As I mentioned above, the ship design screen has no effect on the actual ship model you construct.  There are just a few basic ship models that can be scaled up and down.  It creates the impression that there are hundreds of models when there are really dozens, at most.  They quite literally did scrape by with the hairs of their chinny-chin-chins before release due to the aforementioned financial issues, and now we rely on their pledge to update the game to keep the content flowing for the game to (possibly) fulfill its potential.
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Offline BlackCobra

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #211 on: September 18, 2010, 06:03:06 am »
nearly everything is written in AngelScript Galaxy creation (you can make everything you wanted (i made a multi Galaxy mod for the game so...)), AI, user interface, technology

Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #212 on: September 18, 2010, 12:07:17 pm »
By the way, I just now found out about another RTS/4X (Impulse sale) called Star Ruler.  I mention it partly because it looks really cool but also because it seems to scratch some itches that AI War doesn't, at least for MoO addicts like me ;)  On the other hand, I have no idea what kind of AI it has, but their marketing certainly doesn't emphasize it so I'm expecting something on par with SoaSE (which it looks a lot like in general, but better).  Anyway, the point isn't which game is better, just curious what y'all know about it and if it's as good as it looks.


Well i actually am the dude responsible for the subsystem graphics/ship textures (most of em anyway) and default ship models and their optimizations. ;D (Though i could not model the ships from scratch, sadly - in a case of indy-dev syndrom, our concept artist had to model the ships because our ORIGINAL modeler disappeared (i was originally just there for subsystem art.. turned into full-blown texture and optimize those ships! lmao) ;/)

I think once the game features settle there will be more work on "modular" models but this ain't a game like galciv or Sots - with potential infnite ships every single module on a ship object increases load on the cpu exponentially which is why the default models (with models assigned to certain ship-scale ranges) are all you get for now ;P

If theres any reason why i wish this game would succeed (apart from me getting paid! ;p) its because its fully moddable.

Edit: Also, Turrets on ships are even worse performance wise. As each turret is a own AI unit - that just wouldn't work in SR
« Last Edit: September 18, 2010, 12:08:56 pm by eRe4s3r »
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #213 on: September 18, 2010, 12:09:20 pm »
Oh cool, I hadn't realized you were on that project, I hope it goes really well for y'all :)  Sorry to hear about the, uh, staffing problems, but so it goes sometimes.
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #214 on: September 18, 2010, 12:21:26 pm »
Yeah its the common plague of indy startup projects, its really hard to find people for such "payment not guaranteed" projects that really stay on, funnily i also did the image they use on steam (least, the image part of it, not sure what they add besides it ;p), also a first for me ;P

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Offline Spikey00

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #215 on: September 18, 2010, 01:48:52 pm »
(Holy crap, Eraser, you're everywhere!)
I'd take a sea worm any time over a hundred emotionless spinning carriers.
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Offline getter77

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #216 on: September 18, 2010, 04:31:12 pm »
Yeah, at this point, I'd say the predominant line of thinking from the sidelines is something like "What is Star Ruler on a good track for...and what has Distant Worlds done so far to leave people scratching their heads?"

In general though, I'd say Arcen would to well to (continue to) lift good ideas/practices from games of any stripe---especially given that the theme for both games thus far has been more than meets the eye and tending to fuse a little of this and that.
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #217 on: September 19, 2010, 09:10:30 am »
(Holy crap, Eraser, you're everywhere!)

I am in your ceiling stealing your.. well you know the saying ;p  ;D
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #218 on: September 19, 2010, 07:58:02 pm »
TheMachineIsSentient, we got away from the topic, but if you don't mind, could you post the verbiage you would suggest for the distribution store pages (i.e. the steam, DD, GG, etc, sites)?  I dunno if we would be able to even fit the number of words that would be necessary to do the game justice even in barebones-bullet-points form, but it would probably help anyway.
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TheMachineIsSentient

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #219 on: September 19, 2010, 09:41:01 pm »
I pondered this for about an hour or so, trying to fit everything into Steam's restrictions. I'm assuming the reason there are two different game descriptions is because there is a size limitation. The game description you posted was actually pretty good ( aside from some things that I thought were actually either poorly written or detrimental to selling your product, such as mentioning limited and AI in the same sentence), so I borrowed a little bit from that, changed some of the words around, and removed any slight smell of match three.

I firmly believe that match three is not going to do you any good here, as that mechanic is overdone. I also believe that match three doesn't really reflect this game, and you should remove it from your steam accolades in the description. As soon as I read match three, I thought, "dammit... Not another one!" I hang out at gametap for some of their retro games ( which are now disappearing), and that is where apparently all match three games go to die.

The other thing I did here was call out Pablo Vega by name, as I believe you should celebrate your indie-ness. It's barely in there, but is there, and I think that recognizing your company as a group of real human beings and aspiring artists can only help you and invite people to take a look. Aside from that, let's be honest, the music in this game is a huge part of the game, it plays along with you, and I am constantly humming that hypnotic main track throughout my house...

I changed some of the adjectives and removed anything I thought seemed to say that this game is easy. The game does have some really easy parts, so for someone that is looking for a mindbending experience, starting the adventure mode is the wrong way to go for the demo. I thought that the adventure mode picks up difficulty to where I like it farther in.

Let's seeā€¦ I emphasized social gameplay, as I think that a lot of people want to be able to play either with their siblings, significant others, or gamers that might have a variety of taste. This is for those people that want to be engaged and challenged, even when they are playing with someone refuses to play "counterstrike" with them or whatever the story is. While it might suck to play bejeweled with the typical casual puzzle gamer, this game is as deep as you want to make it... Which is a  good thing, and I tried to say that in here.

I left out twitter and Facebook. I think they are both unfortunate stains on society, and the last thing anyone needs is another update in their mailbox... But hey, the option is there! I sense a backlash on this stuff ever since Farmville, but that's up to you if you want to mention it. It's something I would rather mention in the initial guide or something.

Lastly, I mentioned accessibility. I am a part of the software industry myself, and this is one thing that we focus on. We have a checklist of things that we must do to achieve compliance, and every engineer is on board with making the product accessible for everybody. I think this is a good thing, as it shows your attitude as developers to be welcoming and human-focused. This also gives a slight hint at your indie-ness, which as I said before is something you should be embracing in your literature, in subtle ways.

"We are not big business, and we invite everyone to play." That's what I get from that line.

Let me know your thoughts... Edit as you see fit... Or see if you can bring in your other features page.


Quote
Tidalis is a block-based puzzle game with casual appeal and hardcore depth. This puzzler challenges you to control the flow of streams as you encounter obstacles and trigger bonuses. You will have to think ahead as you perform combos and induce chain reactions to solve each level!

There is endless replayability on that core mechanic with 20 randomizable game modes, dozens of special blocks and collectible items, and 115 levels in the Adventure mode alone. No need to adventure alone, as Tidalis supports innovative cooperative play (including Adventure mode) in addition to competitive modes.

In summary, Tidalis features co-op and competitive multiplayer modes (both online and offline); action-oriented modes and timer-less brainteasers; a lengthy adventure mode with hidden levels and collectible items; twenty unique game modes providing innumerable twists to the basic gameplay; dozens of special blocks and items; and over fifty minutes of beautiful music to go with the painterly art that reacts to your performance as you play each board!

Whether you're just looking for a casual fun time,
cooperative puzzling with friends, a deep and strategic puzzle experience, or a series of brain-bending puzzles, we've got you covered.


  At A Glance
    - Easy to learn, hard to master
 - Two-player co-op and competitive play via Internet lobby or direct connection
    - Variable difficulty; a wide selection of both action-oriented or brainteaser-like levels.
    - Adventure mode with collectible items and hidden levels rewarded by your performance, hardcore puzzle enthusiast custom games, and versus modes.
    - Endless replayability; 20+ game styles including the popular Sun And Moon solitaire, Frenzy, Bumper mode, and dozens of items and special blocks.
    - Rich, painterly art style and captivating music by Pablo Vega that reacts to your gameplay
    - Players can create and share whole new themes, levels, and adventures.
    - Arcen Games supports accessibility; Options for colorblind players, players averse to lots of light and motion, older computers, customizable keyboard controls or mouse



Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #220 on: September 19, 2010, 10:03:48 pm »
Thanks for doing all that :)

detrimental to selling your product, such as mentioning limited and AI in the same sentence
For an exhaustive list like that we have to say that, because it is true that we intentionally cut a pretty obvious corner on the VS AI, namely that it only supports a subset of game modes and special blocks, etc.  There are good reasons that we cut that corner, but it's either not mention VS AI at all or mention that it doesn't support everything ;)  But for a summary that feature doesn't have to be mentioned at all.

Quote
I firmly believe that match three is not going to do you any good here, as that mechanic is overdone. I also believe that match three doesn't really reflect this game, and you should remove it from your steam accolades in the description.
We detest the label, but it is true that the basic mechanic of the game kicks in when you create a reaction involving at least 3 matching pieces.  But we wouldn't mention it of our own accord.  James Allen (OutOfEight) gave the game an 8/8 score, which is pretty significant if you look at how many reviews he's done (660) and how many 8's he's given (29) ; so we kinda want to include his quote ;)  But we might be able to find an honest way of structuring it so that the match-3 term is not in there, if Chris is ok with that.  We also want to add a blurb from Tom Chick's review, since he also gave it a perfect score.

Anyway, I'll pass this along, we'll see what we come up with.
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Offline madpinger

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #221 on: September 24, 2010, 02:43:45 am »
Well, I sort of got everyone I knew to buy AI:War when I got it months back, 4 in all.
Wrote a review and linked it as a recommended game on my personal website. etc etc

I'v all ways been pushing Arcen games where ever I can cause it is such a good product that is only made better by the interactions with the staff.

I'm not sure what more I can do, tho I'll give it some thought and see where else I can spread the word. ^.^

I wish you all the best of luck.  I would sorely miss Arcen Games if the worst were to happen.

Offline Magos Mechanicus

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #222 on: September 24, 2010, 05:29:00 am »
Really sorry to hear this. Ever since Christopher's first marketing blitz for AI War reached one of my forums and I started playing, I've been quite fond of this company for its extraordinary dedication and great games.
Hope you can find a way out of this slump.

Now I don't know what kind of budget you'd need to finish Alden Ridge Arcade, but one idea I feel is worth at least mentioning to you is preselling it on Kickstarter. One guy who's currently doing this is Schuyler Towne, who wanted to launch a company selling picks and tools to competitive lockpickers. Initially hoping to get $6000 together for a first production run, he's now made over a thousand sales, raised 13 times his goal (and counting) and has essentially launched his company already.
The advantage of this approach, then, is:
  • It would (hopefully) bring a bunch of cash, up-front. How much it could raise would also be a good way to measure interest in the final product.
  • It avoids the handouts and microtransactions you're reluctant to do (and I think I'm not alone in appreciating that stance to microtransactions).
  • If you can't raise the full budget, you're not committed to providing backers with anything.
  • It's not an investment but a sale; You still retain full ownership of the game.
It's something to consider, at least. I know I'd back you.

Good luck, guys!
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 05:31:10 am by Magos Mechanicus »

Offline vonduus

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #223 on: September 24, 2010, 10:35:26 am »
I am trying to get AIWar and Tidalis on nation wide TV here in Denmark, I don't know if I have any luck, but if I get a positive response, I hope you will stand by with some free copies for the reviewer(s). I also asked some newspapers and the danish version of pc gamer why they haven't reviewed these games yet.

I told them all to write directly to you at [email protected], I hope this is okay.

Cheers vonduus

edit: In my mail to the media I focused on AIWar as a unique hard core game for nerds (for some reason nerdiness is fashionable this autumn here in DK ???), and I focused on the fact that  arcen is an indie company with a pretty much unique business model (lots of gamers here are very upset by the standard corporate trend in gaming 'security', even Civ5 has got quite a lot of bad press for its being Steam-only).

edit2: And I didn't mention anything about financial trouble, as I believe this might be counterproductive.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 11:06:57 am by vonduus »
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Offline x4000

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Re: Love AI War and/or Tidalis? We could really use your help...
« Reply #224 on: September 25, 2010, 12:08:36 pm »
Cheers, vonduus -- I really appreciate it, and you're right that I'm completely down with giving license keys for that, using my email for that, etc.

As for any other comment I missed responding to here or elsewhere recently -- sorry about that. I read them all, but there is such a limited amount of time for me lately that I'm having to not respond to everything as much as I normally would. I feel bad about that, but something had to give and it couldnt be work on ai war 4.0, or fatherhood duties, so I've been a bit stuck. Thanks foe understanding, and most of all thanks for all the help and ideas!
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