Brainstorming for Expansion 5

[Dichotomy]

What do we want? We already have heroes, and superweapons from "nice" to "I've won."

We don't have terrain (other than nebulae).

We don't have a fourth (or fifth, etc) state a planet can be in (belonging to a non-player, non-AI faction).

And we don't have enough ways for the AI to kill us (nor will we ever).

[Draco18s]

I'd like to see a smarter AI.  Not an AI with more toys, but an AI that reacts to the player better and can press an advantage and exploit the player's weaknesses.

We have some of what I mean with the return of player-allied enclaves, but I'd like to see more of that.

I'm going to highlight this again because I think it's awesome and would make people cry.

I'd really like AI War to have that "really smart AI" aspect again, as I think we've all been around it that we know its weaknesses and it isn't that deadly omniscient presence that it used to be.

[Dichotomy]

That isn't an expansion issue. Still sounds fun though.

[Coppermantis]

More AI Types, as is usual for expansions. For instance:

Divine Wind AI: Uses tons of suicide units. (Doomshrooms, Autobombs, rams, etc.)

Siege Master AI (From another thread): Heavily uses long range units (Bombards, Plasma Siege Starships, Snipers, etc.)


Also, I had an idea for a bonus ship sort of thing:

Spire Lightning Rod: moderate damage attack and average health. However, it attracts minor electric, laser and similar ammo types to itself which causes (reduced) damage but increases the attack power by a small amount for every shot absorbed. The boost wears off after a while.


Other than that sort of thing, I can't think of much else to be a core feature for an expansion. Another "Major faction" like Fallen Spire would be cool.

[LaughingThesaurus]

Rather than an additional faction, how about some kind of plague spreading across the galaxy?

Implementation

Think of this plague as basically another campaign type. It would be a bigger deal than Fallen Spire. A big enough deal that it can't be done in Minor Faction form.

Basic Idea

The plague has a "home planet" that has infected the second AI type and has expanded its frontlines quickly to encompass about a third of the galaxy. The plague and the remaining AI are fighting one another, and the AI is holding the line with powerful weaponry. Where are you in all of this? Of course, you are a petty human home planet in a backwater corner of the galaxy, and the AI couldn't care less about you. Now, the plague of sorts only infects AI as strongly networked as the AI that you fight against. It can't touch human ships or planets. As a result, the AI actually has a very hard time holding it back. The plague will gradually steal away AI planets, and if left unkept, can take control of the entire galaxy by, say, the 15 hour mark. This is bad for you, as it is more or less a constant Auto-progress that will expand to surround and destroy you. What's worse, the AI still intends to wipe you off the map if you get too frisky.

What to do?

Well, I figure that the plague's got its own plague centers. These sort of nerve centers can be busted up to free up the AI and yourself to push forward. Meaning, planets get un-infected, and you buy some time. The more the plague grows, the more plague centers crop up throughout the map. Keep constant scout coverage. There are also things much like hybrids, that plot specifically to infect only AI planets. Take down those and their spawners to weaken the spread of the infection. Ultimately, you want to bust through the chaotic front lines and take down the plague mother at the 'home planet'. From this point, any available plague centers and spawners will go into overdrive. The front lines are battered and broken, but the galaxy can still be consumed, so you need to actually wipe it off of the map once and for all. The AI will join in this endeavor... so long as you, again, don't get in the way.

Where did this come from?

My mind at 2 AM. I've got Space Pirates and Zombies on the brain (ironically). I figure it'd be interesting to have that contrast of one opponent that grows and evolves and gets stronger constantly, whether you do or not. As the AI fights it, it's basically got its own hidden AI Progress for the plague as well. It starts off very high (like 300 maybe?) and climbs the further the plague advances. But, of course, the AI would inevitably fail if you didn't gather your strength and sneak in to wipe out the heart of it all.

Idk, sounds expansion-y to me.

[Dichotomy]

I think this would be great on a smaller scale (which would still engulf the galaxy via exponential growth if unchecked), so that is only one of the new factions, and doesn't take the place of a second AI.

Ideally, it would have a variable intensity, and at 10 it would be game-dominating.

[LaughingThesaurus]

I think this would be great on a smaller scale (which would still engulf the galaxy via exponential growth if unchecked), so that is only one of the new factions, and doesn't take the place of a second AI.

Ideally, it would have a variable intensity, and at 10 it would be game-dominating.

Well, taking it to an extreme makes it a whole lot more like expansion-caliber content rather than just something to throw into an expansion like Dark Spire and other Minor Factions.
Then again I guess LotS had Fallen Spire as one of its really big features.

I mean it could be a minor faction as well, but if I'm thinking of expansion content, I'm thinking of really, really major things that can completely change how the game plays.

[Faulty Logic]

I was wondering when a thread like this would come up...and I prepared.

Story: the AI just made significant improvements to warp drive technology. It was relatively easy for the humans to capture some. Using this new drive, both the player and the AI can access parts of the galaxy untouched by the AI War...

Terrain: the most supported mantis issue.

Major Factions are also up there.
The central idea is solid, though I would like there to be more factions, and more interaction than trade/protect (you get missions, some mutually exclusive, from each faction).
Also a set of faction ideas, all solid.

[shameless plug]AI types:
Dual Processor: has two HWs.
The Cloud: some number of core guard post on its core worlds also provide invincibility.
Neinzul Hive Mind: similar to the Hive mind major faction.
AI plots: Subcommanders, defence fleets.[/shameless plug]
I would also like the Hybrids to be given a new round of buffs and dirty tricks.

Major Factions:

General:generic take_planet, don't_take_these_planets, attack_faction, defend_me missions are availible from any faction. They affect your standing.

Standing affects trading availibility/prices, and of course how willing it is to attack the AI or player.
Of course, not all of your enemies are open about it...

The AI has faction_AIP against each enemy major faction, and attacks each of them (and the humans) according to that number.

The Hive Mind: a Neinzul faction. Enemy to all.

Uses huge swarms of younglings, but destroy their command/control ship, and they all die. Has mobile and tough stationary versions. Killing their HW (extra huge swarm) prevents them from building more command ships.

Intensity controls the spawn rate of new c/c ships, colonization rate, and swarm strength.

You can't trade with or receive missions from this faction.


Zenith Sentinels: aloof, a valuable ally, or a dangerous enemy. Sentinels trade in information.

Has a strong homeworld, but will not colonize beyond it.
Protecting them from AI, and helping them set up surveillence outposts (in the face of a hacking-like response) earns favor with these. Or you can just bribe them with k. They also like it if you kill tachyon posts/eyes.

Items availible: permacloaked cloaker starship, one-time use planetary cloaker, scouts IV, and the Watchtower (if you don't have complete visibility, now you do).

If they are your enemy, they send permacloaked starships after you (revealed only by firing or tachyon warheads). If the AI conquers their HW and captures its tech, bad things (loss of k, additional (mobile) planetary cloakers, and highly effective tachyon techs) happen.

The Old Fleet: the human fleet without advanced AI, that somehow escaped destruction in the first AI war (and being turned into museums).

Lacking advanced AI, they do not have fleetships, only starships. They are quite friendly, but the AIs are working on hacking their systems. Succeed in saving them from this threat, as well as direct attacks from the AI (and others) and they give you many starship techs, cumulating in the advanced starship factory. Hacked portions of the old fleet act as AI-ally. They use human-style command-stations/defences.

Zenith Galactic Masters: Specialize in galaxy-wide effects.
Depending on their disposition, can give you or the AI galactic buffs (slight).

Zenith Warp Technicians: Love warp gates/wormholes.
Has access to more advanced warp technology than you or the AI. Increases/decreases the number of waves.

Many of the nebula factions could have a major component as well:
The Citadel Ascendant is building their own dyson sphere/Ravenous Shadow.
The Astids are trying to make a third AI (far weaker than the other two).
The Sorrows Fang loves metal/crystal.
The Shattered pillar are restoring derelict golems.
The Mourners maintain their main prison complexes (you hope).
The Grey Spire are benevolent, but both mercurial and vulnerable.
The dark spire/ human resistance are already represented, and the EER is presented as nebula-only.

[Phyrex]

1) I'd like to see an expansion center around some kind of nomad feature. Where instead of having fixed bases, you move all across the universe and constantly change positions and thus have to rethink and adjust to your situation.


2) Perhaps give us some tools that show us we humans have advanced in the fight of the AI. Hacking tools, where the player can for short bursts of time take control of certain AI features with ships turning onto it's own or the other AI. Like a rebellion of guard/special forces patrols. (Think Battlestar Galactica with the Cylon Rebellion)


3) I also wouldn't mind some PvP maps. Yeah I realize this game is all about the AI, and PvP wouldn't be centered around the game main concept. Still, a few non-random maps with low amount of planets (~15) could be an interesting addition. Plenty of gametype possible as well; Apart from Annihilation, also Capture & Hold, Capture the Dyson Sphere or Siege, where one player takes the roll as the AI and starts off with AI resources and can determine where the waves and such go.

[Histidine]

how about some kind of plague spreading across the galaxy?
...

Can we make peace with the remaining AI as part of an alternate victory condition? If so, you've definitely got my vote (but you still have it regardless).

I'd like to see some "minor" factions with expandable territory, whose main function is to cause third party chaos (like Dark Spire, if the Dark Spire could take and hold planets). The "plague" is a good example, Neinzul Anthill being another interesting one.

[Mánagarmr]

Guys, I'm still trying to get through LotS. xD I don't have time for another!

[Wingflier]

Rather than an additional faction, how about some kind of plague spreading across the galaxy?

Implementation

Think of this plague as basically another campaign type. It would be a bigger deal than Fallen Spire. A big enough deal that it can't be done in Minor Faction form.

Basic Idea

The plague has a "home planet" that has infected the second AI type and has expanded its frontlines quickly to encompass about a third of the galaxy. The plague and the remaining AI are fighting one another, and the AI is holding the line with powerful weaponry. Where are you in all of this? Of course, you are a petty human home planet in a backwater corner of the galaxy, and the AI couldn't care less about you. Now, the plague of sorts only infects AI as strongly networked as the AI that you fight against. It can't touch human ships or planets. As a result, the AI actually has a very hard time holding it back. The plague will gradually steal away AI planets, and if left unkept, can take control of the entire galaxy by, say, the 15 hour mark. This is bad for you, as it is more or less a constant Auto-progress that will expand to surround and destroy you. What's worse, the AI still intends to wipe you off the map if you get too frisky.

What to do?

Well, I figure that the plague's got its own plague centers. These sort of nerve centers can be busted up to free up the AI and yourself to push forward. Meaning, planets get un-infected, and you buy some time. The more the plague grows, the more plague centers crop up throughout the map. Keep constant scout coverage. There are also things much like hybrids, that plot specifically to infect only AI planets. Take down those and their spawners to weaken the spread of the infection. Ultimately, you want to bust through the chaotic front lines and take down the plague mother at the 'home planet'. From this point, any available plague centers and spawners will go into overdrive. The front lines are battered and broken, but the galaxy can still be consumed, so you need to actually wipe it off of the map once and for all. The AI will join in this endeavor... so long as you, again, don't get in the way.

Where did this come from?

My mind at 2 AM. I've got Space Pirates and Zombies on the brain (ironically). I figure it'd be interesting to have that contrast of one opponent that grows and evolves and gets stronger constantly, whether you do or not. As the AI fights it, it's basically got its own hidden AI Progress for the plague as well. It starts off very high (like 300 maybe?) and climbs the further the plague advances. But, of course, the AI would inevitably fail if you didn't gather your strength and sneak in to wipe out the heart of it all.

Idk, sounds expansion-y to me.

I LOVE this idea.  Coolest expansion idea I've seen to date.

I think on top of making it exciting and unique, we should make it uniquely difficult. 

The "terrain types" idea is cool I guess, but I'm just not that impressed by it.  In many ways this expansion added new "terrain types" with all the different nebula and minor faction skirmishes like that mantis report suggests.  In the end you just find that it becomes very formulaic and abusable, it sounds cool but it doesn't add much to the game.

I like the "Plague" idea because it makes every game challenging and unique.  There's no easy way to do it, it's just like the base game, each scenario is completely different and must be handled differently.  Bonus points if you can turn on Fallen Spire AND Plague at the same time, and work to kill the AI before the plague spreads across the whole map and kills you first.

It would be neat if the plague turned all of the AI ships into zombies and got some unique ships of its own too.

I don't know, my mind is just spinning over this idea.  VERY cool.

[chemical_art]

1) I'd like to see an expansion center around some kind of nomad feature. Where instead of having fixed bases, you move all across the universe and constantly change positions and thus have to rethink and adjust to your situation.

I've sometimes let my imagination run wild and think if I started a map of AI War with a single nenzul enclave, and used said enclave to gather other forces to eventually either "break out" of the galaxy or defeat the AI.

[Kahuna]

I just wrote this New Red AIs, changes to the AIs and adjusting the AI types' difficulty levels. It's not entirely expansion stuff but the new AIs could be.

[LaughingThesaurus]

how about some kind of plague spreading across the galaxy?
...

Can we make peace with the remaining AI as part of an alternate victory condition? If so, you've definitely got my vote (but you still have it regardless).

This would be fairly awesome, but I really don't know how you could necessarily do that lore-wise. All I really know is that the AI goes after the biggest threat, and would most likely recognize the plagued AI as a big threat... until it's dead. Does that prove to the AI that humanity deserves to live? Maybe.

As for adding Fallen Spire, I really don't see why you couldn't. It is a minor faction, and would be able to fit in to the game reasonably well. Although, you get some very... interesting chemistry if you mix Spire blowing up AI with AI and Humanity blowing up plague. God, that would be fun to do, just to so severely overwhelm the AI in every way.

As for plagued ships, I'm not entirely sure how exactly that would work yet. I knew for sure that there would be unique plague-only ships. The rest could be ordinary 'zombie' ships, since that would probably be most sensible. Another thing I'm not sure about is how the "Homeworld assault" would work on the plagued AI. There's tons of room for a lot of interesting variation here.

Thanks for the support, that absolutely made my day.