Champion xp/level curve: Needs flattening?

[onyhow]

What about if you limit respec to 1 or 2 times only in a course of a game? No cost to respec, but limited times per game?

I don't think the SPAZ system will work with AI War, consider that the amount of XP you can get per game is limited...

Another way: when you respec, you lose levels...(got the idea from Far Cry 2 multiplayer unlock) so basically you can respec as much as you want, but eventually you won't get enough points...so it'll make the players think before respec...

[Hearteater]

What about splitting upgrade points up by technology line.  So my Spire tech points only work on Spire modules.  Give some of each when you level, possibly weighting the points towards the ship type you are using when you level.  The total number of points available would be higher, but you'd still only have the original amount of points available in any given ship line.  For example, say you got 5 points when you made a level now: you'd get 3 in every tech line under this system, with maybe one extra point based on the ship type you are using (13 total).

In addition, maybe Mark IV and V unlocks might require 1 and 2 points respectively from each other tech line, so whichever ship line you push for IV+ modules on will draw points from the other ship lines, effectively giving you your "final" ship line.  This avoids locking you in to ship line until you can see what modules you will have and gives you the option of not specializing in one line and getting multiple lines loaded down with Mark IIIs.

Basic modules might have their own line of points, or simply require points from all lines.  Another option for them is to make them auto-level up to Mark III with nebula completions, and let you upgrade them to IV+ with a much heavier multiple tech-line point investment.

[KDR_11k]

possibly weighting the points towards the ship type you are using when you level.

Better not, you'll usually level in nebulas and you'll likely use a different configuration there than in the main game (e.g. the Neinzul champ doesn't seem useful at all for nebulas).

[LaughingThesaurus]

Of course. And, that's where you have to make sure the price is right enough to make it actually a decision, rather than a no-brainer "Ooh, new module, I'd better respec to see what it does".

Also, how do you beat all of the scenarios in 3 hours? I got stuck on that first three-faction battle for a full hour because my blasted ships wouldn't actually kill the enemy large starbases, and I was at the absolute most basic module setup because that was my first scenario.

[Cinth]

I'm going to disagree on the point that getting 45 points isn't that hard. The system is set up to top out at around 50 points, and if you have a sufficiently large galaxy to contain more than 9 nebula, you can turn on duplicate scenarios to get a few more.

The points required per unlock has been reduced twice now and I feel those are in a good place. I can usually develop a setup that works for all scenarios and have enough points left over afterward to make a "fun" ship setup that I can harass the AI with.

My starts now usually involve running lasers, missiles and shields on Zenith hulls.

I also take full advantage of the low xp requirements in the first 5 levels. Hitting AI planets and getting Mk II modules before I even get started. This is even easier now that the XP gather range has been increased (bring your fleet to help and it goes a lot faster).

You can get 5 levels easy for completing scenarios quickly plus the xp for killing the bases. The Dyson scenario is easily the best scenario for gaining XP (I can readily gain 10+ levels just from the Dysons if it is early in the rotation).

[onyhow]

@Cinth: the problem is that if Dyson scenario comes up early...also the biggest concern is the random nature of modules granted...I have no objection about no respec if you can plan 100% ahead what you will get...

My idea: if you beat the last scenario, you get the battleship hull and special Shadow artifact that lets your ship "relearn" things, but only once...it'll help much better because when you reach that point nebulae scenario is over anyway, so you at least should be able to respec by then at least...

[Cinth]

@Cinth: the problem is that if Dyson scenario comes up early...also the biggest concern is the random nature of modules granted...I have no objection about no respec if you can plan 100% ahead what you will get...

I have completed each scenario with only Laser, Missile, and Shield modules. Getting to Lvl 5 before you start doing scenarios will give you enough points to max those 3 modules at Mk II. The only module I would consider unlocking would be Polarizers since it has always performed well on the RS scenario (for me anyway).

[onyhow]

But what about outside? There's several modules that are totally useless inside nebulae...paralyzer, nanosubverter, translocator, and such...

[Cinth]

But what about outside? There's several modules that are totally useless inside nebulae...paralyzer, nanosubverter, translocator, and such...

After the 9th nebula, I have a set up that works in scenarios and a set up for harassing the AI.
The outside setup is usually bomber drones and IIM but it depends on what I feel like doing. Sometimes I like to set up a Spire ship for heavy brawling.

[KDR_11k]

I'm not so worried about the nebulas though getting a bad draw for the early scenarios (especially the three way which drags on for a long time if you aren't able to hurt the bases yourself) can be devastating for your leveling prospects. Perhaps it's a bit of a snowball effect in that getting bad results early means less XP means less strength means performing worse at the scenarios. Also I'm not sure it's a good thing that the best approach seems to be getting all the nebulas out of the way before doing anything serious with your actual empire.

[chemical_art]

[Sleep deprived, will be brief]

Like idea of a single respec at getting battleship.

Allows bridging of nebulas vs. non-nebula situations, allowing greater variety.

[KDR_11k]

Maybe one respec at cruiser and one at battleship (cannot be stockpiled)? Cruiser is at the half-way point where you have a decent variety of modules and all races.

[Hearteater]

I don't really like a respec, even a single respec after you are done the nebula.  It makes the nebula an entirely separate game.  I'd rather there be more interaction between the two sides, not less.  Are their tweaks that can make a Neinzul hull work better in the nebula?  Right now you have 4 classes, only 3 can level up, you can change classes at any time, and the level-cap is generally well before end-game so you level-up as one thing, then change to your real class.  It really doesn't lend a lot of identity to your champion.  It screams min-max with no attachment.