Author Topic: Shields...  (Read 5075 times)

Offline Gemzo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Shields...
« on: June 16, 2012, 11:25:05 pm »
I think that shields should be more interesting than picking the color you want to glow when you press your shield button. Does anyone else agree? And no the 25% elemental resistance is not enough to sway one's decision about which shield to pick, the main factor is if you use a +elemental power enchant and the shield matches that element.

What I mean is, make each shield more different. In order to discuss changing the shields, however, we'll first have to establish their current form. They currently last 12 seconds or until they break. They drain mana while active. There is nothing stopping you from just turning it back on after it breaks. With perfect timing you're effectively invincible against almost everything, while not using very much mana. Without perfect timing, you use mana to attempt to block hits, and will sometimes waste significant amounts of mana to do this.

By modifying, adding to, or removing from these traits we can make each shield different quite easily. I can throw out a few ideas real quick but I would like to hear others' input mostly.

Fire shield: Deals damage to enemies on contact.
Water shield: Less mana usage but you take 10% of the damage through the shield? Or maybe regenerates shield health over time?
Air shield: Blows away enemy projectiles? Shorter duration.
Earth shield: Reduced movement speed while in effect but more durable.

And, since why not, even if they aren't in the game currently...

Light shield: Maybe rename to force field? Knocks enemies back on contact.
Entropic shield: Uhh... Doesn't block (much?) damage but increases your own power depending on how much damage the shield has taken. Doesn't break but still has a time limit.

Besides all this, have shield damage decay over time instead of instantly. Being able to bring up the shield at full health immediately after it breaks is not fair. Also make it have a short cooldown before you can bring it back up after it breaks fully.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 12:00:58 am by Gemzo »

Offline Oralordos

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
  • Suffering from Chronic Backstabbing Disorder
Re: Shields...
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2012, 11:43:24 pm »
We've had a lot of topics on the forums about the shields. Strangely none of them really did much beyond the shields are OP discussions. I recommend looking around mantis. I frequently trip over suggestions about shields although it may just be me.

Offline Gemzo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: Shields...
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2012, 11:57:38 pm »
I realize that shields have been discussed quite a bit but obviously no changes to make each unique has been made, nor has it been decided they shouldn't be like such either. So I was hoping to get some attention with this mostly, since shields are crucial to survival on higher difficulties and they deserve some love, y'know?

Offline BenMiff

  • Map Maker Mk V
  • Jr. Member Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 71
Re: Shields...
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2012, 06:12:39 am »
I like the idea of adding riders.

However, for light and entropy shields I'd suggest:-

Light shield - also emits light.
Entropy shield - a "thorns" effect whereby enemies near you take damage whenever the shield blocks damage (as a % of the damage blocked).

Offline Aklyon

  • Core Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,089
Re: Shields...
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2012, 11:10:27 pm »
I like these ideas. The light shield could be rather useful besides defense if it emitted light of some kind.

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: Shields...
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2012, 02:39:04 am »
I do like the idea of having SOME sort of difference between the shields other than just the elemental resistance, which honestly just isnt necessary/helpful at all.  Any shield seems fine for blocking any element.

Mostly though, I think these need cooldowns;   they're way too easy to abuse right now. 

Offline zebramatt

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,574
Re: Shields...
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2012, 04:50:57 am »
Pretty convinced this is going to make it into the game in some form or another!

http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=6420

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: Shields...
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2012, 05:13:00 am »
Pretty convinced this is going to make it into the game in some form or another!

http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=6420


ooh, that's a good one.   Something like that would definitely differentiate these alot better.

Offline darkchair

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Shields...
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2012, 06:13:41 pm »
One of my concerns is how powerful shields are. They should probably have a more significant cooldown to prevent from being so easily abused.
I'm thinking somewhere between 5-15 seconds, just a rough estimate.

It's not the biggest issue, more important things can be done for now, but high level play (The Chosen One difficulty) pretty much demands abusing how powerful shields are. I would rather have to think more when using shields, as opposed to simply spamming it.

Edit: To clarify, IMO, shields currently block a lot more damage than they should. Their strength comes not from their numerical strength, but from the trait that they  instantly refresh back to their full strength. This gives them the ability to block a huge amount of damage with very little thought or skill.
If shields had a significant cooldown, the trait of shields regaining their strength will be lessened. One would have to decide which situations to use their shield as opposed to always blocking every shot.

Regarding The Chosen One, the power of shields is immensely useful and makes the game a lot easier. I would rather not have their handicap personally.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 06:21:42 pm by darkchair »

Offline mlah

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Shields...
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2012, 09:45:15 pm »
The thing is spamming the shield gets annoying really fast. Sure I have enough mana regen to keep my shield up indefinitely but I don't want to have to recast it ever 12 seconds or less so it ends up getting used in the places where I know I need it which should be considered when effects are added. For example creating a light shield that gives off light encourages you to keep it up at all time.

Offline Gemzo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: Shields...
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2012, 04:06:18 am »
I don't think the time limit was that great of an addition. It didn't really solve people being invincible on lower difficulties, just implemented a minor annoyance. I can tell you the time limit never realistically comes into effect in TCO unless you're using it to block stinging nettles or something.

Anyway like I said, I think shields durability should regenerate over time. Shields would share a health gauge (based on %) and it would only recover while it was off. Say, 20% per second by default, maybe possible to increase by enchants.Meaning if it broke it'd take a full 5 seconds to recharge to full durability. But in addition I think you shouldn't be able to bring the shield up until a cooldown has passed if the shield broke entirely. I think this cooldown should be equal to 50% of how long it takes to fully recharge a broken shield. The cooldown probably should be unaffected by haste rating.

Now that I've gone a bit more in-depth with that suggestion I'd also like to bring up this issue. As it is, shields are a bit difficult to keep up when you need them when they break in 1-2 hits because there isn't any indication of when they break mostly. Besides that there should probably be a sound for when your shield cooldown is over and when the shield is fully healed. These additions would make shields easier and more fun to use. And if the "shield health has to recharge + cooldown on break" things were added, it would help shields from becoming too clunky and difficult to use. Since this is a UI thing of sorts, it'll probably need support votes to be implemented, hence why I am mentioning this here; to try and garner some support for it!

Offline zebramatt

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,574
Re: Shields...
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2012, 05:33:44 am »
More discussion on shields here, for what it's worth!

Offline darkchair

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 38
Re: Shields...
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2012, 06:24:34 pm »
My first idea was also to have a shield stat. I think my cooldown idea is simpler and makes the game more interesting so I now lean to that.

Regarding shield sounds, that's fine I guess, but I enjoy the challenge of multitasking my shield health as is.

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: Shields...
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2012, 06:57:29 pm »
My first idea was also to have a shield stat. I think my cooldown idea is simpler and makes the game more interesting so I now lean to that.

Regarding shield sounds, that's fine I guess, but I enjoy the challenge of multitasking my shield health as is.

I agree with the cooldown idea;  in particular, it meshes with the way other spells do things, as large spells in the game do have cooldowns, so it makes sense to use that mechanic for shields as well, rather than inventing a whole new mechanic JUST for shields.

Offline Gemzo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: Shields...
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2012, 07:26:03 pm »
I think that just applying cooldowns to shields like every other spell wouldn't work properly without extra coding. You'd be unable to turn the shield off until the cooldown expires, and then the spell would go back onto cooldown after turning it off, too. Since ideal shield usage usually includes turning the shield off ASAP, this creates more problems than it solves. So it's probably not just as simple as slapping on a normal cooldown... Anyway, for as important as shield spells are, a little special treatment isn't entirely unwarranted, right?

As a side note I'm kind of anxious to see what the devs think about this...