TLF Version 1.005 Beta Released (Holy Smokes It's Big )

[Shrugging Khan]

Alright, did some testing. Hard/Hard/Year 0.

Started out with the Burlusts, docked witht he platform, then killed their Prime. Turmoil!
Gave SF tech to every race. Before I got to the last of them, the Burlust had already exterminated the Thoraxians. They then went on a world conquering spree, formed a fear empire, and exterminated every race except for the Acutians, who managed to stand their ground.

I teamed up with them, helping them research, build armadas, of course doing a whole lot of fighting - 300 Burlust prisoners are worth a lot as slaves. Eventually though, I caught a stray missile in a fight, was out of it for 20 months, and the Acutians went down. Game over, man.

Observations:

Federation points need some tweaking; when there's an all-conquering fear empire out there and I have good relations with all/most of the remaining races, they should be a lot quicker to form a federation. 700 FP missing? Yeah, teaming up against the Burlust isn't possible right now, sorry, please earn those points first.

Autoresolve is bollocks. The game should perhaps track player aptitude in some way, because I could handily wipe out groups of ten Burlust flagships (A cloaking device and a disruptor go a long way), but Autoresolve considers me incapable of destroying a single armada without having to retreat. Meaning I had to either stay in the fight personally, forever, or just give up. Meh.

That said, I really should have spent those 150000 credits on saboteurs rather than on scientists. I think.

[Aklyon]

Yeah, these federation points are more of a roadblock than anything currently.

[GC13]

The Federation Points are so bad I decided I had to roll back to 1.004. It's just so fun twiddling my thumbs waiting thirty more years until the Acutians are ready to join a federation with the Andor, despite the massive love-in we all have going on here.

I can see how the concept could work in the future, but right now with no way to reliably build pro-Federation sentiment except waiting they're not fun.

[jonasan]

hmm i'm really enjoying the extra challenge with them involved.....

bit of feedback here : http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,15430.msg170460.html#msg170460

[GC13]

Correction, I decided to roll back until I realized I couldn't continue the save in 1.004. Still waiting for 3040 to come around so I can form the Federation I wanted. Keeping the Skylaxians from crushing everyone with their doom fleet is getting awfully expensive though; I just don't have the money to keep the peace anymore now that these guys hate each other.

[ElOhTeeBee]

Question for those who have played around with it:

Do Federation Points add anything that the Influence system doesn't already cover?

[Breach]

Glad to hear the game is doing so well, hope it continues long in to the future.

By the way, would you guys consider using Steam's system for betas where users can opt in using their interface? Or would you prefer to do the current way given you have quite a large reach spread over many outlets that aren't Steam that you'd like to get feedback from? Just curious!

[Aklyon]

Honestly, I'd say theres no point in using Steam's beta system. it limits who has access to the beta for no particularly great reason (which will cause complaints), and AI War (along with the other games, although not nearly as pronounced) has had a long history of beta patches through arcen's own updater that've worked fine, and unless its adding unfinished things like Fed points, they generally are nearly as stable as the current official, but with the bonus of having more fixes and so forth. They just made the cross-platform one too, might as well make use of it eh?

[wyvern83]

Question for those who have played around with it:

Do Federation Points add anything that the Influence system doesn't already cover?

Uncertain. Perhaps it is not so much that it adds something that the Influence system didn't already cover but that it covers some of what the Influence system no longer does in this version. It's a second currency and it certainly changes how the game plays. It reminds me of Core Shield Generators from AI Wars, it had a mixed reception and has a similar effect of prolonging the game and discouraging/preventing blitzing the game. 

I think Federation Points could use some more work, there needs to be more ways to interact with it other than waiting and dispatch missions, but it has lead to some interesting/different endgame problems which I perhaps might not have encountered otherwise. I think that can be a good thing but only if there are meaningful choices and ways to deal with it.

[GC13]

Core Shield Generators are an extra goal. Sure, it makes it take longer to assault the AI homeworld, but it's just something else thrown into your strategic calculus.

Federation Points don't have that in their current implementation. Right now they're just a timer on when you can get a race into the Federation, and the timer is set way too long. Short of praying for someone to attack the Acutians so I can chop fifty months off of the very long timer, there's nothing I can do to affect this. As an aside, you'd think the Burlusts would be all about going on the offensive in a war, especially considering all the fleets they've wasted on raiding, but they're quite content to guard their homeworld which means there's no point to attacking—you only get Federation Points for defense.

Telling someone to declare a war shouldn't universally drop Federation points. In fact, being in a defensive war should increase Federation point gains significantly; this would be great because I wouldn't be thinking "oh, there's a war, better go ask someone to call it off." The RCI dispatch missions should also either gain Federation Points or a lot more Influence, because they're super-weak right now and the player needs a way to influence FP gains.

[wyvern83]

True. I like your suggestions though. With the prolonged length of the game wars outbreak quite frequently, it would add some opportunity utility choices.

You can get Federation points from the Andor Pharmacist party's vaccine mission but that party isn't always in the game and it costs 15k. I think you get 5 points with everyone as it is right now for doing it. 

[zespri]

I can't find the current value of federation points for each race. I expect to see this value in Racial PowerGrid, but apparently I'm looking at a wrong place. So the question is, where are these points listed for each race?

[GC13]

If you go to any action that changes Federation points for a race, like asking a race to declare war on another, or asking a race to form a federation, it will show how many Federation Points that race has at the moment.

[jonasan]

From the change log....

"There are eight new race-specific political deals for joining the federation that involve having absolutely abysmal (-2000) RCI values in a specific category (each race has a different category). In these deals, the desperation of the race is such that there is very little influence required on your part (-200 or better), and the Credit cost is also quite low."

now this is interesting.... conjuring wonderful ideas of setting these situations in motion... i.e. one race gets a disease, i produce a vaccine on my science lab, then i culture the disease, then i infect a world, watch its med value plummet, role in with and offer of a federation with vaccine in hand!

[GC13]

Now that's something I can get behind. Right now it gives us the opportunity to be opportunistic friends, willing to lend a helping hand in exchange for allegiance. In the future, I hope our options for clandestine warfare are substantially improved. Right now you can't even hire some guys to blow up a facility without everyone in the system knowing you're the one who did it.