Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness

[Misery]

The problem with that bit is I cant much count an Incredibility run when taking feedback for balance.  Not as much as a normal run anyway. 

The game is basically balanced as if those don't exist.  They're basically inspired by Nuclear Throne's Crowns, which are balanced in exactly the same way, which is to say, not at all.

Though, "The One" does provide a damage boost (fire rate increase) but not THAT much of one.  25% fire rate increase.  So I suppose I have to count it anyway.  Hmm.

There are of course still things I could do to make floors 6/7 harder in a general sense, the problem is that I have to worry about making it TOO hard.  Normal mode is meant to be "for everyone" and thus isn't really meant to be THAT hard.  Though, 6/7 should be harder than 5 and earlier.  I think I do at least have some idea as to why things on 6/7 are going down too fast.  That's a pretty easy fix and frankly something I should have thought of before; the issue is actually really obvious now that it's occurred to me.  Though I need to experiment more first, and of course, any further feedback you have is welcome too.  But I can probably get an enemy HP balance patch ready in just a few days.  The trouble is getting those numbers correct....


Now that being said.... I suppose I could experiment with giving Terminus some... upgrades.   Of course, not everyone would be too happy with this concept.  One major difficulty with balancing bosses is that their difficulty is very subjective.  For example, Wallmaster.  I've gotten SO many comments about him being much too hard.  To me, though, he's a pushover.  On Normal I'll sit right in front of him and never take a hit.   Wheras the boss that tends to give me the most trouble is actually Centrifuge.... but nobody ever complains about that one.   

It's also very, very, very hard giving bosses a proper linear difficulty increase over the course of the game, so that each is harder than the last in proper order.  Even in Cave's games (where I get inspiration from) I don't think they've *ever* gotten this right.  I can think of a couple of games where the SECOND boss is harder than most of the later ones.

But I'll see what I can do with Terminus and test some ideas.  Make him more interesting.  I just have to not make him TOO interesting.  I can see how a couple of the patterns in that fight might get a little too easy to dodge compared to bosses before him. 



Also you're right about the drone stores and their defensive things.  I'm going to make a couple of changes there as that's been bothering me, but I wasn't ENTIRELY sure (needed to make sure it wasn't just me).  But I've heard this from a couple of people now, so I'm going to do it.  Not entirely sure WHAT I'll do aside from very definitely making defensive drones of any sort able to only spawn once in a run, and they'll be more expensive (defensive items tend to be *very* powerful in this game).  I think I have an idea as to why the later shops only sell those 3 drones, too.


Alright!  Having thought about this, I've some work to do.  Again it'll be a number of days, Chris is busy right now (he's the one that has to actually send the patch out) and it'll take some testing anyway, but yes, going to make a few changes.  That honestly I should have already made, but... yeah.


Glad you liked the Lumiflares.  Those took a really bizarre amount of time to make.  They're not exactly complicated but their design gave me a lot of trouble.

[TheVampire100]

Currently making a new run. I've seen the golden minigun, cool stuff. All we need now is agolden module and a golden mech and we can go full bling bling mode.

I like the new Splatter shot. Cool shotgun-like weapon. However, he has the same drawbacks as all shortrange weapons: You get **** by some bosses. The first phase of Invader was terrible to manage, the second phase was easier however. The weapon is however strong with magnetic offense because all your bullets will hit for maximum damage.

[Atlar]

Yeah the incredibility... had to shake thinks up a bit. Actually wanted to move on to hard but then i had to do the normal run for !science! so I could provide +Feedback+
Didn't even notice fire rate increase... thought it would only act as built in cryo-module (-minus the dmg)...


What happens in general at lvls 6-7 seems fine to me... can't tell for sure though cause rooms go down real quick. Imo stuff just needs more hp.

About Terminus. After fighting him in the test chamber I think his patterns are actually ok:
First one: Unusual compared with most other patterns, requires big movements and also fitting in between the white bullets if you mess up the timing. Rather hard. So pretty good one.
Second one: Actually easy to dodge but the red waves can suprise and intimidate. Not bad either.
->Those two seem just fine. They also fit the guardian turret theme.
Third one: Completely different than the first two, rather fiddly and not all that easy. So not bad.
Last one: Certainly the weakest and easiest but also the longest and at the end of the fight. Its ok.
->Those two are ok, too. Here things could get more interesting, but as you said normal should not be too hard so might aswell leave them as they are.
->So I think the patterns are alright, they simply need to last quite a bit longer. Instead of 1.5min I'd say more like 5min.

I'd probably try 1.5x more hp for lvl6 and 2x more hp for lvl7+Terminus... but is there no easy way to test stuff? I.e. give yourself realistic xp-lvls and items, then move to lvl6,7,Terminus to see how it goes? Should be easy to fine tune stuff that way.


Oh about Wallmaster and Centrifuge... I can tell why no one complains about Centrifuge: Almost nobody has actually fought him Haven't seen him myself also many other late game bosses like ShrapnelRose, Fusillade, Agression... On the other hand you will get a Wallmaster every other game (and yes he is super easy).
I'm not sure how this is handled, is it: lvls 1+2 share the early game boss pool (Backfire, Mirror, Wallmaster...), lvl3 has Invader, lvl4 has an own pool with labyrinth and v2 versions(??), lvl6 has the late game pool (Aberration, Centrifuge...).
Anyway, I think right now there is a lack in early bosses while there are more than enough late game bosses. Maybe unfix invader and move some of the easier late types to 3+4?

Other than that, normal bosses and their progression seem pretty good to me (besides lvl6 bosses suffering from lack of hp atm). Also, imo if the main bosses have the right difficulty it doesn't really matter if a normal boss turns out to be a tad easier than the last one.


Alright

o/

[Pepisolo]

I like the new Splatter shot. Cool shotgun-like weapon. However, he has the same drawbacks as all shortrange weapons: You get **** by some bosses. The first phase of Invader was terrible to manage, the second phase was easier however. The weapon is however strong with magnetic offense because all your bullets will hit for maximum damage.

Yeah, having a shorter-ish range can be tricky to balance regarding the bosses although the range on the new shotguns is still fairly reasonable, I think. Mains need to have a certain amount of range or they do become a bit broken. I did do a fair amount of testing of the shotguns on Hard bosses and they seemed OK to me. They're a bit tricky to use -- especially the Automatic Blunderbuss -- but I think they're good, although I'll keep an eye on them and make tweaks where appropriate, of course.

[Cinth]

Weapons shouldn't really have shorter range than the flamethrowers.  Anything shorter than that would have some serious issues with bosses.

[Misery]

Thanks for the further feedback Altar, that brought up a couple of interesting issues, the main one being the bizarre boss rarity.  Because you're right, certain things hardly ever appear and Invader seems to appear *every* time.  Heck, I cant remember the last time I fought Labyrinth.

So that's definitely going to be looked into as something is definitely off.

Levels 3-4 are supposed to share a pool, with Invader being a possibility, not a guarantee.  1-2 are also another pool, with Wallmaster supposed to NOT have the bizarre tendancy to appear really frequently (yet not all the time).  5 is just the Warden, 6 is the late-game pool (which has a smaller number of possible bosses than 1-2 and 3-4 each have), and 7 is Terminus.

So... that's kinda... confusing as hell.  I definitely want to see this fixed along with the HP fix (which I'm starting to work on). 

I kinda suspect that some normal enemies are also affected by this.



Level 6 bosses and Terminus, I'll have a look at their HP.  They may need a change, it's been awhile since I looked at those specifically so you might be right about them.  I thought Terminus had a lot but... maybe it's 10000 really isn't at all enough that late. 

Yay, more testing to do...

[ERISS]

Where can we find the patches (drm-free, not depending on server), there is only a txt file in \RuntimeData\updates

[Misery]

Shouldn't there be a green button on the main screen now?  At the bottom.  It was placed in when that version of the game appeared so I assume it is what grabs the updates for that version from the site here or wherever the heck it's kept.  At least I think it's green.

If that's not the case then.... I haven't the foggiest clue.

[Cinth]

It should pop up as a button between the patch notes and achievements buttons in the file select screen.  I don't think it shows up if you're up to date.

[ERISS]

Yes, I had already done that.
Then I searched for the downloaded installer files of the patch, to save them for later on my HD, so I don't need the Arcen HDD (server) to later reinstall the game updated, for I bought the game drm-free.
Maybe there is not, but we can save the whole updated game folder? (original game installer becoming useless)

[Cinth]

Yup.  Just save the entire game folder where ever you want. 

[Pepisolo]

Weapons shouldn't really have shorter range than the flamethrowers.  Anything shorter than that would have some serious issues with bosses.

I think at the moment the shotgun ranges are slightly less than the flamethrower. I might tweak the range up slightly, mainly to make sure that you can get always get those sniper enemies that are behind those shoot only walls. Because of the knockback, I nearly got stuck in one room due to not having enough range to reach the enemy. I had just enough range to take the enemy down, but it was a bit awkward.

[ptarth]

Also note that Flame Throwers are not short ranged, their range is 650ish? I calculated and posted it a while back IIRC.

[Misery]

Yes, but honestly even the basic gun is a bit short ranged.  It's been hard to make some of the more complex enemy/boss patterns due to the fact that the player must be quite a bit closer to them than in other games that use bullet-hell-ish styles.  Really anything shorter than even that can be a bit problematic.

[Logorouge]

So, concerning the savegame compatibility issue, could my "broken" save file help you guys in any way or do you already have everything you need on that front? If it's deemed too problematic to fix, I'll start a new file but I would really prefer continuing my old save.

Anyway, sorry for the nagging, must be a withdrawal symptom of not playing SR for so long.