Author Topic: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness  (Read 12621 times)

Offline Pumpkin

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,201
  • Neinzul Gardener Enclave
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2016, 06:05:54 am »
First game completed (in a new file; I thought it was normal the save wasn't compatible anymore) : the new difficulty ramping is much better. Early levels are easy and latter levels pose problems even to  a well loaded mech. GG to the math guys!
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.

Offline ptarth

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,166
  • I'm probably joking.
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2016, 11:51:03 am »
re: Hornet Mines
*sigh* Sorry folks. I think they pushed a patch to fix the problem, but if you have already deleted I'm not sure if there is a way to get it back.


Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2016, 12:37:55 pm »
re: Hornet Mines
*sigh* Sorry folks. I think they pushed a patch to fix the problem, but if you have already deleted I'm not sure if there is a way to get it back.
eh, it's just 26 hours of lost progress. ;)

That said, I did manage to bring my save back from one of those "deleted_blahblah" files. However, I still can't load it as it keeps giving me the same error. I'm on 1.101 btw.

« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 12:41:54 pm by Mánagarmr »
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,251
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2016, 12:49:04 pm »
Care to upload the save file so us Freaking Volunteers have a reliable test case to make sure our fix actually works? ;D

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2016, 01:02:55 pm »
Jawohl, dear sir!

You can find it here.
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,251
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2016, 01:17:03 pm »
Jawohl, dear sir!

You can find it here.

Danke vielmals. (Huh, that sounds as awesome in German as the same phrase in Spanish, if not more so).

Shunted that off to the other Freaking Volunteers (I love that title).  Something simple probably got overlooked, I know that happens to me all the time.

Offline Atlar

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2016, 08:35:56 pm »
I accidently pressed "Delete" as I believed that it was the referenced item that was to be deleted. Unfortunately, my save obliterated itself. Any good way of getting that back?

Yep, thats ecaxtly what I did. Happened like 2 hours ago so the 1.101 patch did not help.
Don't care to much for the save but i would rather not have to do another two 5-lvl runs before i can fight  Terminus again... is there a way to cheat the requirement?

Other than that really cool update. You pretty much rebalanced the whole thing + new stuff :)
Beat my first 1.100 normal Warden easily enough but I didn't feel op, even though I had a pretty nice run considering item/dmg buff drops.
Seems like you got it right.

Btw... are there new sounds??

Offline windlesszephyr

  • Newbie Mark III
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2016, 09:47:43 pm »
You guys did such a great job with the balance modifications. Things are feeling fun and fresh again, so kudos to the Freaking Volunteers, ya did well :D

Offline ptarth

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,166
  • I'm probably joking.
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2016, 09:57:37 pm »
To Quick Unlock 7 Floor Runs
  • Start a new game.
  • Exit tutorial.
  • Start a new run in temp dev mode.
  • Press L to turn on dev menu.
  • Press Skip to Next Level.
  • Repeat 5 times to finish game.
  • Repeat for two more games to unlock 7 Floor run.
  • Avoid temptation to use dev mode for evil.

Sounds
Lots of new sounds. I have to actually go fix someone's cases.

Windless Zephyr
Glad to see you like it. The Boomerang Weapon isn't quite right yet, so we've not added it yet. But it is coming (along with Ninja Stars!).

re: Saves breaking
I'm trying to iron out the Hornet mine issue now. If you want to continue your old save, I should have that tracked down by Monday or tonight, depending on some things. Alternatively, use the above process to skip to the 7th floor version of a new game and not worry about it. My files are always a mess and I delete my saves all the time due to differences, sorry we didn't detect it prior to release.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 10:03:28 pm by ptarth »
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline Atlar

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2016, 02:08:27 pm »
Don't worry, thanks for for the cheat :)

So, just finished my first 1.101 normal 7-Floor run:
Again, progression was just fine up to the Warden. Afterwards though... i was running smart gun (homing), stg-4xxx, ftl-module, energy harvest (sac item) and also tried out the lifesteal incredibility (which turned out to be crazy!). Simply obliterated levels 6 and 7, starting with like 38 hp at 6 (lifesetal) but didn't reallly need it cause everything died pretty fast... then Terminus: He did not go down as fast as pre 1.100, actually put up a fight but I think his patterns are too easy... "perfected" him without much trouble though I could have made so many mistakes with 51 hp. Think he should atleast be en par with standard hard bosses. Right now he only has 3 patterns, which are all very obvious to read.

Oh and I had two problems:
-finally perfected invader but no steam achievement :(  (also still no periphery achievement)
-the aoe bullet cancel drone: when it shoots it completely kills my framerate. my laptop is not made for gaming but otherwise the game runs just fine.

o/

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,251
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2016, 03:53:03 pm »
Oh and I had two problems:
-finally perfected invader but no steam achievement :(  (also still no periphery achievement)

I don't think this achievement actually exists in the code.  I mentioned it in the internal email chains the other day; no comment.

Offline Pepisolo

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,511
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2016, 04:32:06 pm »
Oh and I had two problems:
-finally perfected invader but no steam achievement :(  (also still no periphery achievement)

I don't think this achievement actually exists in the code.  I mentioned it in the internal email chains the other day; no comment.

Yeah, must've missed that. Thanks, I'll add this onto Keith's working list.

Offline Atlar

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2016, 08:34:12 pm »
Later today I messed around with Terminus in the test room. Gave me some trouble tbh, took some time to actually master the patterns (also noticed he actually has 4, not 3). So I think what happened in that run was a combination of:
-bullet cancel drone helping through the patterns
-bullet canel drone helping with lag + shorter fight time (compared to test chamber) ->much easier to keep focus
-massive adrenaline rush for final boss after ~1.5h play time :P
So I still think he's a bit to easy -tlb should be really epic- but not all that much. Maybe just give him even more hp so the phases are really long. Makes all the difference if you have to keep up the pattern for  minutes instead of some seconds. Especially with the new drone which allows you to breathe every few seconds.
On the other hand I also breezed through lvls 6 and 7, so maybe the problem is still more towards player damage progression.

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2016, 02:15:50 am »
Later today I messed around with Terminus in the test room. Gave me some trouble tbh, took some time to actually master the patterns (also noticed he actually has 4, not 3). So I think what happened in that run was a combination of:
-bullet cancel drone helping through the patterns
-bullet canel drone helping with lag + shorter fight time (compared to test chamber) ->much easier to keep focus
-massive adrenaline rush for final boss after ~1.5h play time :P
So I still think he's a bit to easy -tlb should be really epic- but not all that much. Maybe just give him even more hp so the phases are really long. Makes all the difference if you have to keep up the pattern for  minutes instead of some seconds. Especially with the new drone which allows you to breathe every few seconds.
On the other hand I also breezed through lvls 6 and 7, so maybe the problem is still more towards player damage progression.

Are you SURE you really want to tempt me to make bosses HARDER?  I'll do it, you just see if I don't.

Anyway, the TLB (well, the normal one anyway...) of a game like this isn't going to be THAT epic; this isn't a pure bullet-hell game, remember, it's an Isaac-ish game + some bullet-hell.  Besides.... later on he wont BE the TLB.  I'm saving the "epic" for that nightmare (though that wont be fought on every run).  That's for much later on though and I haven't started on the damn thing because I dread the testing of it.

He *probably* doesn't need that much of an HP boost though.   Terminus by itself... as in, not counting the two guardians...  has 10000 HP.   That's a lot in this game.  4000 in his first phase, 6000 in the second. The two guardians then have 2500 each.  I have to watch how much HP things have in this; obviously bosses need to last long enough to generate threat, but I *don't* want them lasting ultra-long and becoming a chore if the player is having bad luck with damage upgrades, you know.  If you've played Isaac enough, and had to go up against, say, Gurdy, with a bad damage stat, then you probably know just what I mean.  I love Isaac, but when THAT happens, the fun drains out of it really fast. 

I'm also not going to rebalance enemy patterns based on the existence of defensive drones;  it may prove that the drone itself needs a bit of a nerf later on (to have more time between flares), we'll see what happens with feedback along that line.  That specific drone though is going to be more effective against certain types of attacks (for example, it's particularly strong against the blue orbs that Terminus uses, as it tends to be good against bullets that spawn other bullets).  Players wont have those drones every time though.  But also Normal mode just isn't meant to be all that hard.

That being said I'm still open to making changes if it does indeed prove necessary.  One issue with Terminus is that I didn't get much feedback related to him; players were stomping him after all, with the bad balance we had before, so I had no idea if he was difficult enough (or too difficult).  So he may indeed be a bit off.



Now, all of that being said.... how long would you say it took you to get through that fight?   It shouldn't be ending THAT fast.  Though, the occaisional high-power run is to be expected;  it's not that we don't want OP or high-power runs to happen at all... in this genre, they're part of the fun.... it's that they were happening EVERY SINGLE TIME before, they should be fairly rare.  If you run through the game a few more times and you think things are still just dying too fast every time, let us know.  It may be that some late-game stuff (floors 6-7) needs HP tweaks.  Nobody really tested the late-game enemies other than myself, so.... yeah, it wouldn't be that surprising if their HP needs a few tweaks.   Need more feedback and of course I'm continuing with my own testing


Anyway, all that feedback is appreciated!  Feel free to drop more here if you should have any later.

Offline Atlar

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Starward Rogue Update 1.100: The New Balance Hotness
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2016, 07:03:58 pm »
Soo, just finished another normal 7-lvl run :) :
This time I tried deep blue! I was running fast-fire-5-needle-maingun (name?), torpedo launcher (so sick on that mech), destruction module and "the one" incredibility.
Again game seemed just right until and including the warden, really fun run. But then again things went down. Starting with lvl6 everything died just way too fast, although I had most of my dmg upgrades still coming... at lvl7 stuff basically died faster than I could look. Could also 1 hit all small enemies and 2 hit all big ones with the torpedoes, but wasn't really necessary... Terminus again was a total pushover, this time I stopped the fight time: Took exactly 1.5 minutes till I turned him into a scrapheap.

So now I'm really sure about lvls 6-7+Terminus needing more rebalancing. In the course of 6-7 levels players WILL get quite a number of dmg upgrades, this was no exceptional run. I didn't even have a singe familiar besides deep blues trusty beam drone. Edit: Besides, deep blue + torpedoes = fun overpowered. Everything just falling over instantly = boring overpowerd. The latter should never happen imo.

Other things I noticed:
-no keycards until lvl 4 -.-
-drone stores at lvl4 and above always selling bullet slow drone, bullet cancel drone, trail drone
->lvls 1-3 always sell the other ones
->happened on every run with every store, so pretty sure about that
->obviously leads to low attack drone count and bullet cancel spam
-energy scaling on deep blue: the item "+1health -5energy" took 10 energy, the item "+80energy -2health" gave 160 energy
->so I was running around without real missiles but with about 24 overpowered torpedoes/room (~400 energy), fun times
->yet I basically used them only for convenience in lvls6-7 as mentioned above

On another note:
Really like the new weapons, enemies (lumiflares!) and rooms (nasty lumiflare rooms o.0)! Especially the weapons really up the variety in different runs. Up to the warden the game feels just right now.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 07:08:07 pm by Atlar »