Author Topic: The Hunter's Feedback  (Read 3606 times)

Offline The Hunter

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • H/K Mk5
The Hunter's Feedback
« on: November 26, 2015, 03:21:45 pm »
Following feedback is for first run that i did today:


Quote
1. How does it feel flying around?  Speed with and without afterburner?

For one glad to see this done without inertia, big plus, would have been a big turnoff for me otherwise. Though turning seems to be buggy in that turning from left to right also moves a bit up/down for some reason(probably known already). Also why in the world ship slides to the side when running into object, haha.

Quote
2. How does the shot speed and firing rate to you feel in terms of satisfaction?

Seems fine by me, though i am easy to satisfy on that part.

Quote
3. How does it feel to you in terms of how quickly enemies die, how many enemies are in each room, and so on?  Is it an annoyingly slow slog at times, and if so where?  Is it way too easy in a way that could have been fun if there was more health (or whatever) on a given enemy?  If so, what was it?

From the rooms i've encountered, basic enemy hp seemed fine, and more health on enemy is rarely more fun. Boss that I've encountered however was sitting waaaay too long on one pattern and had only one phase... Then again i had no items at that point, and i forgot that missiles existed, so dunno.

Not exactly an enemy but there were waaaay too many laser trap things for first floor, haha, which what ended my run after going exploring the floor after defeating the boss.(Not exactly a bad thing though if you plan to make game more obstacle based than enemy based)

Quote
4. Does it feel like the overall floors themselves are too large or small or just right? (the collection of rooms making up one level of the dungeon -- not the physical object the floor of the room)

Seemed fine, though didn't got to explore entire floor on first run.

Quote
5. Any comments about enemies you hate or love, items the same thing, rooms the same thing.

Haven't played enough to have favs, but nice to see enemies having bullet patterns and stuff. Didn't really liked the boss i've encountered though, too much sitting on same attack.

Also there was that one Zig Zag room that didn't made much sense, enemies kept trying to shoot me behind wall and were way too easy to take out between shots.

Some enemy type just wandered around firing very short range shots in random directions, is it intentionally nearly harmless?

Quote
6. Does it feel like you have too much health, or too little?

It is waaaay too much if it was a pure shmup, but considering roguelike aspect probably justifiable.

Quote
7. Is your invincibility period after taking a hit something that you feel like is too long or too short?  Maybe this should vary by difficulty to some extent.

Haven't noted that one yet as i never got hit more than once in a row... will be noting for next run.

Quote
8. Do the shots feel too large to you?  For some enemies or all of them?

Seemed fine, i'd say there needs to be better indication of hitbox on player though.

Quote
9. Things that are confusing enough that you think a tutorial is needed to address them.

It /wasn't/ obvious that mouse did aiming/firing, only noted it like after first room. Otherwise all stuff seemed to be fine to me by looking at control settings.
Also obviously there needs to be tutorial that clicking tutorial breaks the game(jk).

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Other things:

I know its in works, but i really really really miss the music!

Boss room needs some kind of indication, i've ran into it as like 3rd room, lol.

I actually like that there's no "meta" progression at this point, not really a fan of that kind of system.

Edit: Fixed quote pyramid disaster...
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 03:25:07 pm by The Hunter »

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,251
Re: The Hunter's Feedback
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2015, 05:33:59 pm »
Boss room needs some kind of indication, i've ran into it as like 3rd room, lol.

They do, look on the map in the upper left, the adjacent rooms are marked out slightly dimmer in color.  Boss rooms are red.

Offline The Hunter

  • Full Member Mark II
  • ***
  • Posts: 153
  • H/K Mk5
Re: The Hunter's Feedback
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2015, 09:21:27 pm »
Boss room needs some kind of indication, i've ran into it as like 3rd room, lol.

They do, look on the map in the upper left, the adjacent rooms are marked out slightly dimmer in color.  Boss rooms are red.

Ohhhh, my bad, i was just really bad at noticing red doors apparently at the point i was doing first run for some reason then....... ???

----------------------------------------

Anyway, done my second run and completed all 5 floors apparently. Normal might be waaay too easy, at least for me...

As far as things i've noted, the normal hull's main weapon might be a bit too abusable around walls, that is you can position it to fire around wall while being in perfect safety.

Also the bosses other than the boss i've mentioned in previous post were more fun and changing patterns, though boss on floor 5(I think it was "Mirror"?) spawned on top on me for some reason.

Some weapons might potentially be waaay too OP in not necessarily fun way, i am talking mainly about one weapon(that i forgot name of) that deals half damage to every non-boss enemy in the room, basically leading to player standing behind obstacle and waiting for room to self-clear.

I liked the "Rose" boss, was actually difficult unlike others(At least until you find semi-safespots above-below, which i hope arent intentional).

I am not sure i like shield system, i think it gives too much room for "free" errors, found myself accidentally running into mine and just going "Whatever".

There were some cases of "I've just cleared this room" with 2 exactly same rooms adjacent to each other with exactly same enemies, probably has more to do with amount of rooms in game but maybe there could be special check to avoid that?

Also, maybe some specific enemy shots that last really long time, like superhoming shots, should be cleared after room clear?

Anyways, was fun, so looking forward to future developements on this, will do run on harder(or hardest?) difficulty later.

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: The Hunter's Feedback
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2015, 02:06:06 am »
Hi there!  Glad to see some detailed feedback for the game here, the more we can get, the better.  Glad to see you're enjoying yourself.
I'll see if I cant give a few answers and general responses to some of what you've said here.  I made the majority of the enemies and all of the bosses, so that's the aspect I can answer the most on.  But I can still help give info on other things too.

....which is going to be a bit annoying to write up.  What is with this godforsaken text editor here?  This thing is so glitchy is practically is just one giant glitch.  Just.... what.  I mean, this is almost Youtube levels of bugginess, which is saying something.

Anyway, my obligatory complaint over with, let's get to it.....

Quote
From the rooms i've encountered, basic enemy hp seemed fine, and more health on enemy is rarely more fun. Boss that I've encountered however was sitting waaaay too long on one pattern and had only one phase... Then again i had no items at that point, and i forgot that missiles existed, so dunno.

Bosses wont have all that many different patterns.  While the design style of the patterns is that of a bullet-hell type (inspired mostly by Cave, because they're great), one way or another, this is not an actual "full" shmup.  I dont want the player to have to memorize a really silly number of different patterns or anything like that, and neither does the head developer.  On top of that, there are going to be *alot* of bosses.  We're going for a huge amount of content here.  The boss you mentioned with only one pattern, I think I know which one that is.  If it has only one pattern this means one of two things:  either A, it was decided that it's complicated/hard enough to only need one pattern so as not to overwhelm the player, or B, I simply havent gotten around to making it's other ones.  As this is an alpha, nothing is in a fully completed state.  Expect unfinished weirdness.  But as I want feedback on patterns and such, even if a boss is not finished, it is added to what is currently playable so long as the finished parts of it are functioning correctly.  This also means that some patterns on both bosses and normal enemies are going to recieve plenty of changes over time as the alpha/beta/whatever continues. 

There will probably though be exceptions to the low-pattern-count rule though.  But I cant say anything more about that right now.  The stuff that relates to is still just in the concept phase and there's been no concrete decisions on it. 

Quote
Some enemy type just wandered around firing very short range shots in random directions, is it intentionally nearly harmless?

Yes.  There are enemies that are meant to just be the "Goombas" of the game, particularly in the early levels.  Of course, right now most enemies and such arent set to seed only on specific levels, so things are really all over the place right now.  But yeah, there'll be a very wide range of difficulty levels on the different enemies and bosses.

Quote
Anyway, done my second run and completed all 5 floors apparently. Normal might be waaay too easy, at least for me...

Right now "normal" is the only one that's fully active.  The bosses actually have full "hard mode" patterns... my design style typically leads me to create things that are *really* hard, and I cant overstate just how difficult I mean by that. If you've heard of Mushihime-sama, I'm used to games like that one, and I mean something like it's infamous Ultra mode, which I've completed.  Even holding back ALOT, the original patterns for all of the bosses were deemed as much too difficult to at all be in normal mode, and have been restricted to Hard and above, while normal mode has much toned-down versions of the original patterns.  Eventually, each individual difficulty will likely have it's own altered set of patterns. I'd meant to have the current set of bosses fully differentiated by now, but ran into screwy issues while doing that, so they're not active on Hard mode yet.  Currently, Lady Staccato and Shrapnel Rose are the only ones with tougher patterns that are actually active, since those were just made and I havent taken the time to create easier versions yet.

But yeah, this game isnt meant to be super difficult like your typical shmup is... it's meant to be playable by a wide range of people of all skill levels.  I think I can guarantee the higher levels of difficulty will certainly be up there in terms of difficulty though.  The highest one in particular, I intend on making it hard enough to challenge myself, which should be... interesting.  Right now, even the two "hard" ones, Lady Staccato and Shrapnel Rose, are still way too easy for me (Rose in particular takes next to no effort, and I dont use safe spots for any of these when playing the game, I sit in front of them), so that should give some indication of what the really nasty versions might be like.  

The tough part though is making sure the game doesnt have wacky difficulty spikes or things like that in modes that they're not suited for.  If you ever have any specific thoughts on the difficulty of any individual enemy or boss, by all means, post it on the forums or on the Mantis bug-tracker if you like.  It helps alot.

Quote
though boss on floor 5(I think it was "Mirror"?) spawned on top on me for some reason.

....what?  That shouldnt be happening.  Ugh.  I'll look into that.  I cant imagine what the heck might be causing it.  I probably left some damn typo somewhere or entered a wrong number in some important spot.  Bah.

Quote
There were some cases of "I've just cleared this room" with 2 exactly same rooms adjacent to each other with exactly same enemies, probably has more to do with amount of rooms in game but maybe there could be special check to avoid that?

That'll solve itself as the number of available rooms increases.  There's only so many right now.  But yeah, it's a little annoying when it does that.  Just part of the fun of alpha testing I guess :D

Quote
I liked the "Rose" boss, was actually difficult unlike others(At least until you find semi-safespots above-below, which i hope arent intentional).

....argh argh argh.  That keeps happening.  Indeed, they're not intentional.  They're a result of me being really spacey and not noticing the problem while testing them myself.  Thanks for pointing it out, I'll see about doing something about it, though not necessarily right away, I've other priorities to deal with first.  Probably.


And lastly, if you should find bugs that you want to report, or have any specific suggestions or anything, it can help to report them here: https://arcengames.com/mantisbt/my_view_page.php   The head developer in particular often doesnt have all that much time to browse the forums here, since he's got a TON of stuff to do, but everyone on the dev team will notice things posted on Mantis.  Though, by all means, if you think something warrants some discussion, feel free to post it on the forums here.

Offline jerith

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
Re: The Hunter's Feedback
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2015, 02:33:36 am »
....which is going to be a bit annoying to write up.  What is with this godforsaken text editor here?  This thing is so glitchy is practically is just one giant glitch.  Just.... what.  I mean, this is almost Youtube levels of bugginess, which is saying something.

I've taken to writing my forum posts in a real editor (emacs, because that's the kind of person I am, but notepad or nano will do) and pasting them into the forum.

Clicking on the little picture of a page in the top left corner appears to take us back to a markup view, which seems a little better. I don't know why I didn't find that button before, because I definitely looked for something. I also don't know why the "Show WYSIWYG editor on post page by default" option in the account settings is being ignored.

Offline jerith

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
Re: The Hunter's Feedback
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2015, 02:42:41 am »
Quote
I liked the "Rose" boss, was actually difficult unlike others(At least until you find semi-safespots above-below, which i hope arent intentional).

....argh argh argh.  That keeps happening.  Indeed, they're not intentional.  They're a result of me being really spacey and not noticing the problem while testing them myself.  Thanks for pointing it out, I'll see about doing something about it, though not necessarily right away, I've other priorities to deal with first.  Probably.

Maybe it would be helpful to have a debug mode (or something in the build tools) where bullets leave trails? That would let you run a pattern for a bit and see where the safe (and dangerous) spots are.

Offline Misery

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,109
Re: The Hunter's Feedback
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2015, 03:29:47 am »
Quote
I liked the "Rose" boss, was actually difficult unlike others(At least until you find semi-safespots above-below, which i hope arent intentional).

....argh argh argh.  That keeps happening.  Indeed, they're not intentional.  They're a result of me being really spacey and not noticing the problem while testing them myself.  Thanks for pointing it out, I'll see about doing something about it, though not necessarily right away, I've other priorities to deal with first.  Probably.

Maybe it would be helpful to have a debug mode (or something in the build tools) where bullets leave trails? That would let you run a pattern for a bit and see where the safe (and dangerous) spots are.

It's not so much that.... I can track every bullet on the screen at the same time even in something like Mushihime's Ultra mode. The ability to track a huge number of things is one of my few useful talents.

Buuuuuuuut...... it doesnt mean so much when you're so naturally spacey that you can lose your 2-foot keychain of doom WHILE HOLDING IT.  Dont even ask how that's possible.  Like many things.... it just is.  

I wish I was making this up.  

But yeah, even with trails and such, I'd still manage to not notice it somehow.  Good as I am at dodging in these games, I'm *terrible* at locating safe spots.  I never notice them unless I see someone else do it in a video of the game in question.  


As for the bit about the text editor... hm, I hadnt thought of just writing it up in a seperate program.  I might do that.  This current one for the forums is just.... so irritating...

Offline Pumpkin

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,201
  • Neinzul Gardener Enclave
Re: The Hunter's Feedback
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2015, 05:23:16 am »
I've taken to writing my forum posts in a real editor (emacs, because that's the kind of person I am, but notepad or nano will do) and pasting them into the forum.
Emacs user spotted! Vim users, chaaarge!

(I love the silly old memes.)
;D

Err, sorry for passing by without helping. I read to keep up and sometimes I have nothing to say. And sometimes it's just a silly joke. Sorry! :-[
« Last Edit: November 28, 2015, 05:27:19 am by Pumpkin »
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.

Offline jerith

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
Re: The Hunter's Feedback
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2015, 04:11:30 pm »
Emacs user spotted! Vim users, chaaarge!

(I love the silly old memes.)
;D

Hey, I'm one of those too! Does that mean I have to chaaarge! at myself? :-P (Emacs doesn't work so well on remote servers that don't have my configs on it.)

Err, sorry for passing by without helping. I read to keep up and sometimes I have nothing to say. And sometimes it's just a silly joke. Sorry! :-[

Half my forum posts are like that. No need to apologise. :-)

Offline jerith

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
Re: The Hunter's Feedback
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2015, 05:02:07 pm »
Buuuuuuuut...... it doesnt mean so much when you're so naturally spacey that you can lose your 2-foot keychain of doom WHILE HOLDING IT.  Dont even ask how that's possible.  Like many things.... it just is.

I wish I was making this up.

Last week I managed to lose my phone while looking at it. I found it when I turned on its torch app to look for it in the dark.

That sort of thing usually only happens to me late at night when I'm tired and my meds have worn off. Or when my brain's grabbed onto an interesting problem that's completely different from what I'm supposed to be doing. Or when... SQUIRREL!

But yeah, even with trails and such, I'd still manage to not notice it somehow.  Good as I am at dodging in these games, I'm *terrible* at locating safe spots.  I never notice them unless I see someone else do it in a video of the game in question.

Tools often make this sort of thing easier, which is why I made the suggestion. But I'm the kind of person who happily spends half a day building a tool to automate away an hour of tedium. :-)

Offline Draco18s

  • Resident Velociraptor
  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,251
Re: The Hunter's Feedback
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2015, 09:23:24 pm »
I also don't know why the "Show WYSIWYG editor on post page by default" option in the account settings is being ignored.

See this topic:
https://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,18187.0.html