Author Topic: City centers and hard capped population growth limit  (Read 937 times)

Offline UsF

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 21
City centers and hard capped population growth limit
« on: May 06, 2015, 11:26:48 am »
I would like to start a discussion about the current city centers and population growth limits in the game.

The city centers are self sufficient entities, starting the player in a world where everything is fine and he can make addons to his city. On one hand this is good, because the player cannot make severe mistakes and his city will stay running longer, but on the other hand it means that the player is not using the mechanics of the game. One instance of that is the population limit system.

When I played my first game, I found it curious to have a hard limit on maximum population and I didn't know how to increase it (turns out I needed diners, I thought at first they were for happiness and the food would usually get processed in factories to be purchased in retail). The fixed population number means that the player will never run into a position where his population tries to expand above the cap and then asks the player to provide more meals/water/dining places. I think it would be good if this limit is not as artificially set to a number, but more of a soft limit, where when the player goes over, he gets a notification that there are food supply problems occuring or simply not enough places to eat at and that he can then either impose a hard birth control limit or food rationing to solve the issue or simply know that he needs to provide more of the resources needed and build accordingly.

The other thing with the city centers is that they supply you all basic resources from the start, leaving the player (me) wondering what to pursuit. I mean if I would get one free farm, water tower and diner for free at the start of the game instead of the city center providing everything for me, it would also serve to educate the player as well as put emphasis on the resources and where they come from, leaving options for strategic choice by the player. This also has the additional benefit that warfare could be about starving people, as you could take out someones whole food supply without having to erase their city center, but I am far from even thinking about such things.

The city center also changes supplies when it levels up, adding slightly to the confusion, because you always have to re-evaluate (until you remember it) on what you truly need after an expansion.

So what do people think? Am I missing something else completely obvious that makes self sufficient starting city centers good? I would like to hear opinions on that thing, even though I am still very much a beginner of the game. :)

Offline ptarth

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,166
  • I'm probably joking.
Re: City centers and hard capped population growth limit
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2015, 12:02:06 pm »
The lander doesn't change its supply as it levels up. The central base being a basic self-contained and self-supplying resource center is typical in this style of game. I'm okay with everything. However, I've also got a lot of game experience, so will be influencing my perspective.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 11:08:07 am by ptarth »
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline UsF

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: City centers and hard capped population growth limit
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2015, 01:32:04 pm »
I could've sworn my energy supply went up as my city center leveled up. Maybe it was a fluke and some other energy freed up. I will keep a closer eye on this and see if it doesn't change. If it doesn't, then all is good, but I am not really convinced by this type of game having a self sufficient center. I would compare it to city builders, where you'd set everything up yourself. I guess you could say in Civ5, each city is self sufficient from the start and just grows. If yes, then I agree with that. :)

Offline Captain Jack

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 808
  • Just lucky
Re: City centers and hard capped population growth limit
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2015, 01:54:01 pm »
Every 4X (with the possible exception of Neptune's Pride) functions the same way. You get a certain amount of starting population just for having the city, but if you want anything more you have to construct the facilities. I don't think giving you one of each of the starters will help, because most people will run into the same problem you did anyway. "I built more farms, why isn't the number going up?"

There does need to be an alert for this, but you should also be able to ignore it if you've hit your desired population.

Offline crazyroosterman

  • Master Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,558
  • Cluck.
Re: City centers and hard capped population growth limit
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2015, 02:01:43 pm »
personally I like having a growth cap it makes smaller city's possible and stops people from auto sparling.
c.r

Offline UsF

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: City centers and hard capped population growth limit
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2015, 09:49:27 am »
I have checked again and think I can verify that the power production indeed goes up as the city center levels up. I hope I am not mistaken again or maybe it was a bug, but it went up. Next time I will probably make screenshots, forgot about that, since I am still building around clueless and dying to diseases without knowing what to do.

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: City centers and hard capped population growth limit
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2015, 09:55:26 am »
I have checked again and think I can verify that the power production indeed goes up as the city center levels up.

If you hover over the text that says "next level in x more buildings" up there at the top, it shows you what stats improve, and power is one of them.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline UsF

  • Newbie Mark II
  • *
  • Posts: 21
Re: City centers and hard capped population growth limit
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2015, 10:45:50 am »
Thank you for the feedback. How have I not noticed that tooltip.  :o

It is still a bit weird to me to have the lander expand in resource production. Maybe that should be put out into its own progress tree like the social policies to get the player more involved into it. It is not that urgent though, now that I know where to look to find the information. I was confused as it was messing with my calculations and I didn't at first know where the changes were coming from. :)

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: City centers and hard capped population growth limit
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2015, 10:49:16 am »
No problem.  Another thing I need to have in tooltips, clearly.

It is in a way its own tech tree, but separate.  The idea behind this is that in your early turns, you have two options: pursue exploration and do a bit of building, and/or do some expensive buildings; or two, establish a larger base of cheaper buildings in order to more quickly grow your city center.  I hate how the starts of games tend to be so rote, and this gives you yet another avenue of choices that aren't critical for newbies, but which add a lot of depth for that early period for those who are more experienced and on higher difficulties.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline ptarth

  • Arcen Volunteer
  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,166
  • I'm probably joking.
Re: City centers and hard capped population growth limit
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2015, 06:59:59 pm »
My start is pretty rote.
  • Bank if possible.
  • Mall if possible.
  • Solve whatever is limiting population growth.
  • Add engineers as desired.
Note: This post contains content that is meant to be whimsical. Any belittlement or trivialization of complex issues is only intended to lighten the mood and does not reflect upon the merit of those positions.

Offline Cyborg

  • Master Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,957
Re: City centers and hard capped population growth limit
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2015, 09:49:29 pm »
I hate how the starts of games tend to be so rote


Chess and Go do not have this problem. I agree with you.
Kahuna strategy guide:
http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,13369.0.html

Suggestions, bugs? Don't be lazy, give back:
http://www.arcengames.com/mantisbt/

Planetcracker. Believe it.

The stigma of hunger. http://wayw.re/Vi12BK

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk