Author Topic: Are rogues too strong at the moment (early game)? Also: Scoutable rogues?  (Read 1584 times)

Offline nas1m

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,268
Currently, when encountering a rogue, I come across two scenarios in my games:

1. Mid Game
The rogue appears at a location that already has some defenses in place and destroys a few buildings before being wiped out. There seems to be nothing that I can do to prevent at least the loss of some buildings (is there a way to intercept underground attacks?), although loosing a couple does not create a problem in this situation.

This scenario does not pose a problem aside being a bit boring maybe (might be resolved simply by scaling up the number of simultaneous rogues, though).

2.  Early Game
The rogue appears before a significant amount of military buildings are in place. Plopping them down then is mostly ineffective, since many monsters seem to match or exceed the range of barracks (and maybe even helipads - I haven't checked) and simply pick off the under construction buildings one by one (if I don't have the crowns to plop them down in significant numbers that is).
Thus the fact that rogues comes without warning (or can't be seen wandering on the map before coming into attack range - this might actually be cool and a good use for early game sonar) and apparently one-shot every building they encounter, makes them a bit too strong/crippling early-game in my book, especially if more then one decides to show up.


TLDR
Thinking about this while typing, my proposal would be to have monsters roam the map, have them picked up by scouts/sonar and potentially generate a warning similar to what has been done for thoraxian tunnels recently.

This way the player can prepare without a kinda unnatural warning like "monster incoming in X" t being necessary.
Having them picked up and notifed to the player by scouts/sonar and potentially picking them up earlier by manual scouting/sonar might even enhance the exploration aspect of the game and create a meaningful use for sonar early-game in the first place - something the game is lacking at the moment in my opinion.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Mantised here and here.
 
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 03:44:10 am by nas1m »
Craving some more color and variety in your next Bionic run? Grab a boost and a couple of custom floors!

Offline kasnavada

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 986
I haven't seen a rogue yet (got a couple of games into the 200+ range).

However, from a balance point of view, it would make sense if early game rogues where melee-range, weak and WAY more numerous than now.
Also if the game was populated by lots of wildlife at the start. It could also explain why the others are so small, if they were constantly battling wildlife.
Currently in "normal" difficulty there is now point defending for the 200 first turns unless a war starts.


What I would propose is to rework the rogues toward looking more like what is done in this game:
http://warlockmota.wikia.com/wiki/Warlock:_Master_of_the_Arcane_Wiki
http://warlockmota.wikia.com/wiki/Nature

Basically there are a number of "camps" which periodicaly spawn units to attack you. Destroying them gives you a number of different rewards. New camps periodically appear.

« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 05:54:58 am by kasnavada »

Offline nas1m

  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,268
The same was true for me before starting a game at Nightmare.
Suddenly rogues are a real thing :).

I would prefer roaming creatures as opposed to (visible) camps, though. Just makes the world feel less inhabited and thus a better fit to the planet being alive somehow - at least as I envision it.

Good idea in the range, though.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 06:14:15 am by nas1m »
Craving some more color and variety in your next Bionic run? Grab a boost and a couple of custom floors!

Offline kasnavada

  • Hero Member Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 986
A roaming creature would make me feel like I need to defend myself, but I don't see roamers becoming a threat to expansion and banding together to represent a threat. It would not push me to expand.

Camps would make me want to destroy for the loot, and leaving them becomes larger threat - inviting me to expand towards it. They don't have to be visible though, I could imagine underground caverns hosting a large amount of creatures =). It could also be diplomatic fuel ("hey, you destroyed our giraffe-looking-monster-that-also-acid-spitting friends").

PS : there is no need to put all of them in "camps". Also, they could defend resources on the map and / or natural wonders.

PS2 : also, camps would be a step between "rogue fight" > "camp fight" > "other player city fight".

Other than that, yes, MORE of them even at lower difficulties.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2015, 08:02:28 am by kasnavada »