Skyward Collapse Alpha 0.806

[Cinth]

@Mick: The word "genocide" isn't appropriate?  I've never encountered anyone who expressed feeling that it was a bad word, in the sense of a swear word.  It's not a slur, and lots of fiction uses the term.  The concept is a bad thing, for sure.  But it's in the same league as "kill" or "murder" or "headshot" in my experience.  Maybe it's a cultural thing, but it's also simply what that is called.  Also, in terms of appropriateness, it's not like it's saying "go cause a genocide."  Rather, it's saying "STOP a genocide."  I just don't understand how that is inappropriate in any fashion.

I believe that the argument is similar to the use of cuddly hug .  Even if properly used it carries a negative connotation (associated with one definition of the word). 

@Cinth: Finally managed to fix that bug with the tokens sticking around!

Was that the fatal error?  The tokens sticking around was a bonus catch in that save

[Mick]

"Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups . . .."

It's more than just war and conquest. I'm not saying it's a swear word that people shouldn't say, I'm saying it's a term that describes something a lot uglier and extreme than what these little colorful army men are probably going for.

[Pepisolo]

It does carry a lot more quite heavy connotations than let's say the word annihilation does.

[x4000]

I gotcha.  And I understand the arguments against using cuddly hug  as a word, and really am not comfortable that we're using it now in this conversation.  It's a trigger word for a lot of people, and I really really hope that nobody who happens to read this gets triggered by it.  Huge apologies if so.

When it comes to genocide, my understanding has never been that the words are remotely on the same scale, is all I mean.  And your colorful little dudes... well, they are trying to murder every last person in the opposing camp, and take every last building.  Nobody is left when they are done if you don't stop them.  I mean... that's not a mis-naming of what they are doing, you know?  There aren't other little blue dudes out there running around somewhere.  The red dudes are basically eradicating the blue nation and all its people.

[Cinth]

I'm sorry for bringing it up but it seemed an apt comparison.  I don't have an issue with the word when used properly.

As for genocide here in Skyward, it is appropriate as defined by Merriam Webster
GENOCIDE: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

[madcow]

I felt pretty much the same as Mick about using the genocide term in the game, its very much a loaded word to use that people aren't comfortable having thrown around lightly - pretty much why my one contribution to the marketing copy was to suggest removing it. Heh.

[Pepisolo]

When it comes to genocide, my understanding has never been that the words are remotely on the same scale, is all I mean.

I think that for some people, it probably is on the same scale. I would use total annihilation as it's just a lot safer.

[Mick]

The intent of the destruction is important. Are the Norse thinking to themselves "I want to conquer and pillage all that cool land", or are they saying "I want to make sure Greeks don't breed anymore"?

I mean, I'm not saying conquest and pillaging is some kinda angelic pursuit, but the second thing is a whole other level of evil.

[x4000]

Well, okay, that's a good point on the levels of evil there Mick.

And certainly I don't want to borrow trouble over the use of a single stupid word.  But I'm not sure that "total annihilation" is really that descriptive, and it's also the name of another game.  Genocide is one-word and descriptive.  I'm open to changing it since so many people clearly feel so strongly about it -- to my surprise, I hadn't picked up on that undercurrent before this thread, so Cyborg's comment caught me out of the blue.  But we need a word that is ideally one-word and descriptive and not loaded, heh.  If that's possible.

[madcow]

Obliterate?
Decimate?
Eradicate?

[x4000]

Decimate's literal meaning isn't what people think -- it literally means to reduced to 1/10th in value.  Yay latin!

But obliterate or eradicate would work for me, I think.  It could pop up with an "OBLITERATED" message when you lose, rather than genocide.  That has a nice ring to it actually.

[Cyborg]

But it's in the same league as "kill" or "murder" or "headshot" in my experience.  Maybe it's a cultural thing, but it's also simply what that is called.

No, it's not in the same league. It does have cultural meaning.

[Mick]

I think the simple term "destroy" works. "You must reach the end of the game without letting either side destroy the other."

[x4000]

I think obliterate is more fun, and I'm going to go with that for now -- destroy is something that happens all the time in the game, and doesn't imply totality of the civilization in quite the same way.

[Pepisolo]

But obliterate or eradicate would work for me, I think.  It could pop up with an "OBLITERATED" message when you lose, rather than genocide.  That has a nice ring to it actually.

Obliterated has a good ring actually for the end loss message. The tone of the word is far more in keeping with feel of the game. Better overall I think. A lot more fun than the other loaded word.