Forming Shattered Haven Store Copy

[cupogoodness]

UPDATE: A new draft of the copy has been posted here: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,12551.msg136866.html#msg136866

ORIGINAL: Hi guys (especially those currently alpha testing),

We're looking to rework the game's description, as well as possibly the feature list, and we'd like your help. Here's what we have posted now: http://www.arcengames.com/w/index.php/shatteredhaven-features

That's been up for months (half a year now??), so it's definitely dated. Chris, Josh, and I also agree that using the term "mildly roguelikeish" probably needs to be removed, as it's misleading for the player. It really only looks like a roguelike, but that's about it. That said, roguelike is a powerful word these days, and probably stronger than environmental puzzle game -- which is how some of us have described it in the past.

Ideally, we're looking to come up with something that both accurately describes the game, and also hooks new players in. (Once again, we've run into the conundrum of not being able to properly define one of our games.) That's the primary tweak we're focusing on, but feedback on the description and feature list as a whole is appreciated (and will be noted) as well.

Anyway, feel free to have a look at the current copy and post any suggestions that come to mind. Anything you want to see changed? Added? Removed?

[tigersfan]

Thumbs up from me!

[Mick]

Calling it roguelikeish is very misleading and should definitely be removed. The word got me interested in the game, but when I tried the alpha I felt that I would have felt cheated if I had bought the game under that term. Calling it an Action/Adventure/Puzzler seems much more appropriate, and is about as unroguelike as you can get. If you want to exploit gamer nostalgia, comparing it to Zelda may be more accurate.

Feature list:

"Grays aren't your typical zombies -- they have a lore all their own, and theirs is a very different sort of apocalypse than Zed's."

Uh, please excuse my bluntness, but why the **** do I care? Why is this the TOP feature listed? This doesn't really tell me anything about the gameplay of the game, it just comes off as weirdly defensive sounding and out of place.

"Environmental puzzles make up most of the gameplay.  Figure out how to use the tools, traps, and weapons in each level to clear all the Grays."

Very accurate and straight forward. Probably should be at the top.

"Follow the story of Darrell and Mary as they try to save their family from a new and unexpected threat.  Both in-game storytelling and painted-style cutscenes"

I like this reword: "Follow the story of Darrell and Mary as they try to save their family from a new and unexpected threat through in-game storytelling and painted-style cutscenes."

"Multiple endings! Depending on your actions, the story may end very poorly, happily, or somewhere in between."

I'm a bit neutral about this. Should probably go closer to the bottom. That's where endings go, the end! And how many is multiple? The cynic in me says: "Ok, it has a good, bad and middle ending, yawn."

"Over 100 hand-crafted levels. Two very experienced adventure level designers are designing the adventure from end to end."

This deserves higher billing than multiple endings. This is where the bulk of the game will be. Do you mean "beginning to end"? I would drop the word "very", it's a weasel word.

"Included level editor! The same editor used to make the main adventure will let you make your own levels, cutscenes, or even entire adventures."

Sounds good.

"Local 2-player co-op. Using two gamepads, two players on the keyboard, or any combination of the above."

No problem here.

[Penumbra]

Will Shattered Haven be using Steam Workshop?

[x4000]

Will Shattered Haven be using Steam Workshop?

Possibly, but not right out of the gate.  I've never used the steam workshop stuff before, and don't really have time to learn it before release.  Also, before we'd do that we'd also want to see that there is actually real demand for that.  I think there will be, but I don't want to waste the better part of a week on that without having some sort of indicator of player interest in making custom adventures.

[Deekay]

I'm no expert when it comes to marketing, but will offer my 2 cents anyways

When it comes to words that get people interested, I think 'zombie' is a big one these days.
I know the grays aren't your typical zombie, but In terms of a description I think it would work well.
Something like 'zombie action puzzler'
The word survival also seems to grab attention due to the meteoric rise of games like Day Z, and while
SH isn't technically a survival game, in any world where the undead are taking over, survival is going to
be implied I guess. You are technically survivors.
I agree that the term roguelike or roguelikeish is misleading, maybe you could get away with 'roguelike inspired'
or something, but i'm not sure.

When it comes to the features list, I think the 'grays aren't your typical zombies' section could be worked into
the description of the game rather than a feature.
Also maybe put something in there about the fact that you can replay the levels for higher scores and gold
completion through certain objectives, people love a bit of competition and challenge
I agree with Mick when it comes to the rewording of the 'follow the story of Darrell and Mary' section.

In terms of something like a steam page, I think a good bold tagline at the top, then a section about how
the grays are more than your typical zombie and a little about the world/how the game plays, then a list
of features would be great.

I will put on my thinking cap and see if I can come up with anything more substantial

[tigersfan]

When it comes to words that get people interested, I think 'zombie' is a big one these days.
I know the grays aren't your typical zombie, but In terms of a description I think it would work well.
Something like 'zombie action puzzler'

<snip>

I agree that the term roguelike or roguelikeish is misleading, maybe you could get away with 'roguelike inspired'
or something, but i'm not sure.

Maybe it's because I'm old, but, when I see "rougelike" the first think I think is that this means there is some sort of procedural generation. There is none of that in this game (I know, weird for an Arcen game) so I don't think we should come within sight of the word "rogue".

Additionally, the more I think about it, the more I worry about the use of the word "zombies". Certainly, the greys certainly zombie like enough to warrant the term, but I think zombies have perhaps jumped the shark now (I know there are some folks who think that). So, I'm worried about putting those folks off by stressing that word too much. I think that it's important to stress the uniqueness of them, rather than trying too hard to paint them as "zombielike".

[keith.lamothe]

Maybe it's because I'm old, but, when I see "rougelike" the first think I think is that this means there is some sort of procedural generation. There is none of that in this game (I know, weird for an Arcen game) so I don't think we should come within sight of the word "rogue".

The main requirements I'm aware of are: "turn based" and "dying is permanent" (more recent offerings, specifically commercial ones, tend to relax the latter one).  But procedural generation is also pretty much required too, yea.

From what I know of Shattered Haven, I don't think the word "roguelike" could be included anywhere in the copy (in a non-negated form) in honor

[Pattoe]

I'm going to have to agree with most here. As an alpha tester I see very little difference between these GRAYS and normal zombies as is. I understand your passion for your work and lore and yes they are different as far as lore goes, but from a mechanical standpoint... not really. but nevertheless, writing so much about these doesn't make much sense, for example, you've got 5 paragraphs about the enemies and only one paragraph about "more than just the GRAYS". Surely what is basically "everything else" should have more of a focus.

Also, parts of your description are a little confusing.

"The worst problem is, anytime someone dies -- of any cause -- they turn into a gray.  Living in large groups is troublesome, because any suicide means you suddenly have a Gray in your midst.  Living with anyone who is sick or otherwise at risk is similarly risky.  Nine years after That Day, and Grays are still being created every time someone dies.  There seems to be no end in sight."

Surely suicide is the safest way for someone to die, as (although jokingly) it is stated in game that your poisonous pill has iron in it which stops you turning after your suicide.


You also need to be careful not to fall into a trapping of Zombie games and Zombie like games and that's to think it's all about the zombies. It really isn't, shows like The Walking Dead are not popular due to the zombies, the zombies are merely a plot device which creates tension and acts as a catalyst for the rest of the story to feed off of. Shattered Haven is not too different in that regard. I find other aspects of the story and game play really interesting such as the maze like puzzle levels, the story around why the world is tearing itself apart (Which, unfortunately is not explained very much at least as far as I've experienced).

It's the same reason I find the AVWW games incredibly fascinating, there is a fractured, broken world thrown into disarray and I want to know why it's happening, what caused it, what people are doing because of it, what changes it's caused in people's lives and survival.

Also do not forget that the game features 2 sets of survivors which are bound in a mutual interest, there are strong ties between the two couples, between the male and female of the couple and then the couples themselves.

From a marketing standpoint, cooperative play can be a big thing, even if it's only local cooperative, even bigger if it's online. (Maybe sell a discounted 2-pack deal. (I kind of see real life couples playing and assuming the roles of the couples in the game.)

Also, Arcen games are BRILLIANT at creating many different difficulty levels and modifiers and options for their games to create an experience which meets the desires of any consumer, whether it be casual or hardcore.

Music and sound is not mentioned at all, the music and sound assets for this game are stunningly wonderful which provides a rich and deep atmosphere, they have me feeling sad, feeling scared, my heart racing sometimes (Definitely not something I usually experience in a 2d top down game like this.)

shattered haven also has a retro appeal, it's delightfully old school in more than just it's aesthetic, it seems to be built upon and designed around old-school game development principles.


That's just off the top of my head, could be useful for some guidance on how to rework and reword it into something a bit better.

[Deekay]

I certainly didn't mean for you to downplay the difference between zombies and grays, I was just thinking of it
as a 'buzzword'. People really seem to respond to zombies in games and they might not get that this is that sort of game
at a glance without the word zombies. But like I said, I'm no expert I just see a lot of games released on steam and xbox live indie section
with the word 'zombie' or 'Z' in the title and figured there must be a reason
I agree that putting forward the point that grays are more than just zombies is important, I was just thinking the word might spark an interest in people

But I guess if the zombie epidemic (pardon the phrase) is dying down, then maybe it would be best to make it clear that these aren't 'zombies'.

[tigersfan]

But I guess if the zombie epidemic (pardon the phrase) is dying down, then maybe it would be best to make it clear that these aren't 'zombies'.

Oh, I don't think it's dying down, quite the contrary, in fact. But I do think that there are a significant number of folks who see the word "Zombie" or "Zed" and think "Oh man, not another zombie game (or show, movie, book, whatever.)" And, since this is in fact, not another one of those, I don't want to give off that impression.

[keith.lamothe]

Shorter descriptions are generally stronger.  What-this-is statements are stronger than What-this-is-not.  So not spending many words saying what it isn't would be good

And the chances of convincing the average viewer "these are not zombies"... Quixotic, I think

[tigersfan]

Shorter descriptions are generally stronger.  What-this-is statements are stronger than What-this-is-not.  So not spending many words saying what it isn't would be good

And the chances of convincing the average viewer "these are not zombies"... Quixotic, I think

Agreed, which is why I'm not sure we should be using the word zombie at all. I'm wondering if maybe we just call them greys, and let what they really are be a mystery in the copy.

[madcow]

Maybe it's just me but calling monsters "greys" makes me think of the classic little grey alien men with big heads. I think because that's what they were called in Deus Ex (the original). Might just be me on that association.

 My joking suggestion is to call them C.H.U.D.s (in a reference I'm sure nobody will get without google)

And the game always seemed like "bomberman" with a turn based twist. I guess you can't really say that though - it might not even be accurate just the description in my head.

[keith.lamothe]

Maybe we should just call them Chromatically-Challenged-Death-Machines