Author Topic: spelunky?  (Read 3662 times)

Offline crazyroosterman

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spelunky?
« on: November 02, 2015, 04:59:34 pm »
as of late I've been playing a randomly generated plat former called just get through it and I heard on the great vine that is somewhat like spelunky so I was wondering if its worth taking a look at I like platformers but I know aboustle ditto about this game and was wondering what the consensus on it is?.
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2015, 08:37:46 pm »
Everyone in the universe seems to think that Spelunky is like the best game ever, don't ask me why. If you've played one Platformer you've probably played them all.
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Offline mrhanman

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2015, 09:28:48 pm »
If you've played one Platformer you've probably played them all.

You can swap "Platformer" with any other genre and have just as true a statement.  One I couldn't disagree more with.

Anyway, Spelunky is an excellent game I spent quite a lot of time in it.  If you like Just Get Through, chances are you'll like Spelunky at least as much.

Offline Misery

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2015, 11:09:15 pm »
If you've played one Platformer you've probably played them all.

You can swap "Platformer" with any other genre and have just as true a statement.  One I couldn't disagree more with.

Anyway, Spelunky is an excellent game I spent quite a lot of time in it.  If you like Just Get Through, chances are you'll like Spelunky at least as much.

Exactly.  It really does go with any genre, that sort of statement.  Usually when someone says something like that, I just say the same thing, but insert *their* favorite genre into the phrase, and then repeat until they stop saying it.  But that's me and I can be annoying.


Now as for Spelunky, it doesnt really play like Just Get Through all that much.  It has a few things to keep in mind.

One thing is that Spelunky is designed to be played QUICKLY.  Too quickly; this aspect actually ruins it for some players.  In every level you have 2 and a half minutes to get to the end.  Once that's over, an indestructible ghost thing appears and comes after you, and you're pretty much forced to leave (naturally, getting hit by it is instant death).  This is a problem for a couple of reasons:  1, it really limits the feel of exploration in the game.  If you're like me, and you like to explore alot in roguelikes and games that are anything like them, this kinda hurts it.  2, it *wrecks* the game's scoring system.  This is honestly why I just dont really play this anymore, because doing daily runs for score and such would put me to sleep.  Score is entirely based on how much money you get, by finding gold and gems and whatever, and not really based on anything else.  There is a thing you can do with the indestructible ghost that is somewhat risky and also VERY SLOW that is the biggest source of points in the game, but.... it's like grinding in a JRPG.  Seriously.  It's that bad.  I'm not going to explain the process, but it puts alot of people off of the idea of competing for that scoreboard.  I've already "beaten" the game, so the whole thing's replay value basically imploded because of that for me.  I'll go back to it every now and then but it doesnt hold my attention like Isaac does.


Of course, if you dont care about that aspect.... well, then it's in a good place for you.  One way or another, it's a very high quality game and a very well-known one.   There's alot of content to it and the mechanics are fun.  If you can handle the frustration of nearly-instant failures (when death comes in this game, it tends to come very abruptly) and high difficulty, it's very much worth checking out.  Just dont spend too much time exploring...

Offline mrhanman

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2015, 12:12:04 am »
You're right about the speed thing, but I think you're overstating it a bit.  Two and a half minutes is more than enough time to explore each level, at least as far as I was ever interested.  I'm not into the leaderboards, so the only person I played against was myself.  There is a real sense of progression that made me keep coming back.  Each run I got a little further, more familiar with the game's hazards.  I've seen a video once of a guy kiting the ghost around for diamonds, but seeing that satisfied any desire I might have had to try it myself.  Definitely grinding, but totally unnecessary unless you are into the leaderboards.  I still make a few runs every now and then, and it continues to entertain me when I do.

Also, if you ever have a few friends over, the multiplayer is a blast.

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2015, 03:27:33 am »
Spelunky is pretty good tbh. I have very few things to complain about when it comes to that game. It's a speed-run roguelike pretty much, but without much complexity. I found it enjoyable but nothing I could sink 20+ hours into. Naturally, I never gave a rats behind about getting a "high score". It's not an arcade game, so I don't bother.
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2015, 04:36:28 am »
Quote
Exactly.  It really does go with any genre, that sort of statement.  Usually when someone says something like that, I just say the same thing, but insert *their* favorite genre into the phrase, and then repeat until they stop saying it.  But that's me and I can be annoying.
Didn't really want to get into this discussion but now I feel compelled.

If you take 5 different games from the Platformer genre:

1.Metroid
2. Megaman
3. Mario
4. Spelunky
5. Limbo

Sure, there's some small differences in feel and weaponry, but ultimately you control one character that moves across platforms and shoots things. You can add some neat roguelike things like to Spelunky does to make it more interesting, but it still boils down to the same game with some extra replay value.

Let's look at 5 games from the RTS Genre:

1. AI War
2. Total War Series
3. Planetary Annihilation
4. Faster Than Light
5. Command and Conquer

Holy shit, these games could not be more different. If you think AI War is ANYTHING like Faster than Light, or that Faster than Light is ANYTHING like Planetary Annihilation. Well, let's just say you should devote your brain to science because you're living in an alternate universe.

These games are so fundamentally different from each other, you could play one for thousands of hours and still be shit at all the rest of them. The same is obviously not true of Platformers. Any skill you generate in a Platformer will translate at least partly to another game because let's face it, it's all the same game with minor differences.

Anyway, not to derail the thread, but I'm calling you out on being delusional if you want to say that EVERY genre is just as repetitive and uninspired as all the rest. You can repeat that as much as you want to, but it doesn't make it true.

Some genres are known for being repetitive and uninspired (Fighting games, puzzle games, MMOs), and some like RTS and roguelikes have a lot of successful experimentation in terms of what has been accomplished with them.
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Offline Misery

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2015, 06:14:06 am »
Quote
Exactly.  It really does go with any genre, that sort of statement.  Usually when someone says something like that, I just say the same thing, but insert *their* favorite genre into the phrase, and then repeat until they stop saying it.  But that's me and I can be annoying.
Didn't really want to get into this discussion but now I feel compelled.

If you take 5 different games from the Platformer genre:

1.Metroid
2. Megaman
3. Mario
4. Spelunky
5. Limbo

Sure, there's some small differences in feel and weaponry, but ultimately you control one character that moves across platforms and shoots things. You can add some neat roguelike things like to Spelunky does to make it more interesting, but it still boils down to the same game with some extra replay value.

Let's look at 5 games from the RTS Genre:

1. AI War
2. Total War Series
3. Planetary Annihilation
4. Faster Than Light
5. Command and Conquer

Holy shit, these games could not be more different. If you think AI War is ANYTHING like Faster than Light, or that Faster than Light is ANYTHING like Planetary Annihilation. Well, let's just say you should devote your brain to science because you're living in an alternate universe.

These games are so fundamentally different from each other, you could play one for thousands of hours and still be shit at all the rest of them. The same is obviously not true of Platformers. Any skill you generate in a Platformer will translate at least partly to another game because let's face it, it's all the same game with minor differences.

Anyway, not to derail the thread, but I'm calling you out on being delusional if you want to say that EVERY genre is just as repetitive and uninspired as all the rest. You can repeat that as much as you want to, but it doesn't make it true.

Some genres are known for being repetitive and uninspired (Fighting games, puzzle games, MMOs), and some like RTS and roguelikes have a lot of successful experimentation in terms of what has been accomplished with them.

I wouldnt be so sure.

Alot of it is very subjective.  I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you dont play much in the way of platformers, because I see that aspect in the same way you seem to see RTS games.  Mario and Metroid, playing ALIKE?  What?  N... no.  Not even close.  Having played both of them extensively, over and over again.... yeah.  Not even close.

But I look at most of the RTS genre, and.... I see the same game, repeated over and over.  Starcraft, Command and Conquer, Total Whatever, and that Planetary thing, or whatever.... to me, all the same.  I just see the same things, repeated over and over... click, click, click, click.  Set up squads, then do gameplay made of hotkeys and wild clicking and more hotkeys, crash a bunch of explody things into other explody things... yada yada yada.  The only one I bother with is AI War, because A: it's an Arcen game, and B: it's known for having a single-player mode that isnt terrible.  But even then, I see huge similarities with that and what I know of the rest of the genre.

Hell, just to illustrate, I'll adapt a sentence you used:  "Sure, there's some small differences in feel and weaponry, but ultimately you control an army that can be divided into smaller groups, and clashes with another army, often with a 'rock-paper-scissors' sort of thing going on between units".  As one that mostly ignores the genre and really doesnt give a damn, this is how I see it.  No exaggerations here.

But that's the thing:  I dont know enough of it, or PLAY enough of it, to be able to accurately comment on them.

It's the same with fighting games for me like it is with platformers.  Street Fighter VS Guilty Gear or Blazblue, for instance.  Nothing alike at all.  They're both in 2D, and characters have various moves.... and that's about where it ends.  Dont even ask me to explain this one.  That'd be an incredibly long rant, even for me.

Same with shmups.  To many, something like Touhou will look alot like Cave's games, which may look like Psikyo's games, which may look like others.... even when none of these play anything alike.  Hell, even among the same developer; something like Dodonpachi DaiOuJou plays NOTHING like Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu (as such, I haaaaate DaiOuJou, but looooove Daifukkatsu) and those are both from the same SERIES.  And you KNOW I've played those enough to be able to accurately make such comments.

I'm not delusional.  But I'm also very aware of the subjective nature of things like this.  To some degree, one must be "into" a genre (and like it enough) to really grasp everything about it.  Hell, FPS games are another great example: They're SO similar to me that I'm incapable of telling them apart.  That's not an exaggeration either.  Halo, CoD?  Same damn game.  First person, has guns, bang bang bang, take cover, BOOM HEADSHOT ZOMG, blah blah blah.  Not interested, so I cant be bothered to learn more.  But I'm also aware that this is WHY I see them that way.  If I were interested enough to jump in, I'd learn how and why they're different.  But I am not, so I wont, so.... there ya go.  I usually just call all of them by the sarcastically generic name of "Call of Halos", because I can be unpleasant that way.


And hell, you can go REALLY far and look at it from the point of someone that isnt a gamer whatsoever.  I've found that alot of games.... from ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GENRES.... look basically the same to some people that really just arent into / dont care about / dont understand gaming.  The games dont have to even LOOK remotely similar.  They're still 'the same things".  Hell, I tend to look at movies and TV this way.  It's all the same to me, just the same crap, over and over (needless to say, I dont like movies or TV one bit).  But again, I'm well aware of why I think that way.

So yeah.  The idea of "if you've played one of (insert genre here), you've played them all" really CAN be attributed to absolutely any genre.  It's subjective... it depends entirely on the individual... not the genre.

Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2015, 07:06:53 am »
If you've played one Platformer you've probably played them all.

You can swap "Platformer" with any other genre and have just as true a statement.  One I couldn't disagree more with.

Anyway, Spelunky is an excellent game I spent quite a lot of time in it.  If you like Just Get Through, chances are you'll like Spelunky at least as much.

Exactly.  It really does go with any genre, that sort of statement.  Usually when someone says something like that, I just say the same thing, but insert *their* favorite genre into the phrase, and then repeat until they stop saying it.  But that's me and I can be annoying.


Now as for Spelunky, it doesnt really play like Just Get Through all that much.  It has a few things to keep in mind.

One thing is that Spelunky is designed to be played QUICKLY.  Too quickly; this aspect actually ruins it for some players.  In every level you have 2 and a half minutes to get to the end.  Once that's over, an indestructible ghost thing appears and comes after you, and you're pretty much forced to leave (naturally, getting hit by it is instant death).  This is a problem for a couple of reasons:  1, it really limits the feel of exploration in the game.  If you're like me, and you like to explore alot in roguelikes and games that are anything like them, this kinda hurts it.  2, it *wrecks* the game's scoring system.  This is honestly why I just dont really play this anymore, because doing daily runs for score and such would put me to sleep.  Score is entirely based on how much money you get, by finding gold and gems and whatever, and not really based on anything else.  There is a thing you can do with the indestructible ghost that is somewhat risky and also VERY SLOW that is the biggest source of points in the game, but.... it's like grinding in a JRPG.  Seriously.  It's that bad.  I'm not going to explain the process, but it puts alot of people off of the idea of competing for that scoreboard.  I've already "beaten" the game, so the whole thing's replay value basically imploded because of that for me.  I'll go back to it every now and then but it doesnt hold my attention like Isaac does.


Of course, if you dont care about that aspect.... well, then it's in a good place for you.  One way or another, it's a very high quality game and a very well-known one.   There's alot of content to it and the mechanics are fun.  If you can handle the frustration of nearly-instant failures (when death comes in this game, it tends to come very abruptly) and high difficulty, it's very much worth checking out.  Just dont spend too much time exploring...
You're right about the speed thing, but I think you're overstating it a bit.  Two and a half minutes is more than enough time to explore each level, at least as far as I was ever interested.  I'm not into the leaderboards, so the only person I played against was myself.  There is a real sense of progression that made me keep coming back.  Each run I got a little further, more familiar with the game's hazards.  I've seen a video once of a guy kiting the ghost around for diamonds, but seeing that satisfied any desire I might have had to try it myself.  Definitely grinding, but totally unnecessary unless you are into the leaderboards.  I still make a few runs every now and then, and it continues to entertain me when I do.

Also, if you ever have a few friends over, the multiplayer is a blast.
I still don't know weather I want to look into it now I mean I like to take my time with games like this(at least when I'm learning) and I'm getting a bit of contradiction here ie one person is saying that time limit means you have to rush and the other is saying that its plenty of time i wish the dam game had a demo so I could decide for my self on that having to rush doesn't fun at all to me but I suppose a good way to see this for my self would be to find a video on it has anybody got any suggestions?. ps or you know the option to turn it seriously how is just to do that with things like?
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Offline TheVampire100

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2015, 08:23:04 am »
Quote
Exactly.  It really does go with any genre, that sort of statement.  Usually when someone says something like that, I just say the same thing, but insert *their* favorite genre into the phrase, and then repeat until they stop saying it.  But that's me and I can be annoying.
Didn't really want to get into this discussion but now I feel compelled.

If you take 5 different games from the Platformer genre:

1.Metroid
2. Megaman
3. Mario
4. Spelunky
5. Limbo

Are you kidding me? You took the five most different plattformer games and then say they are basically the same? The only thing they share in common is that you can walk and jump, that's all.
Mtroid is a free exploration game where you can find upgrades that you need to explore new areas in the game. It focuses also heavy on combat.

Megaman gives you a free stage select at the beginning and each stage is centered around a specific theme (fire, water, junkyard etc.) and at the end you find a boss that you have to beat. The defeated boss gives you his signature weapon and you can use this weapon through the entire game. All bosses have a weakness against a specific weapon, giving you an advantage if you beat the bosses in a certain order.

Super Mario is probably the plattformer, that inspired most modern plattformers. It features all the typical gameplay elements like finding power-ups in blocks and defeating enemies with jumps on their head. It has also the typical (just move from left to right where the exit is) which the other plattformers in your list don't have (except Limbo which is a giant connected world instead of multiple levels).

Spelunky is a rougle-like plattformer, meaning it has randomized levels. It's mostly about collecting treasures and getting to the exit of each level. You can use those treasures to buy items that you might need to progress.

Limbo is more of a puzzle plattformer. You have to solve lever and jumping puzzles in order to get past traps, enemies and other hazards otherwise you get killed. A lot. The most memorable part of the game are the brutal and detailed deaths you receive despite being just in shadowy graphics. This is also the game that shares the least in common with other games in my opinion.


When I look at all the RTS games. Well, you all play them with the mouse. Yay, they have to be all more or less the same!
What I want to say with this is, you can fool yourself into thinking that something is the same just because it uses a similiar control system but this does not mean it is acutally the same (or even similiar).

Offline tombik

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2015, 08:42:44 am »
Spelunky is really good and its random generation is really well balanced.

Same is not true for just get through (yet). Game speed is faster in Just Get Through, since you can afford losing heart more than in Spelunky. Other than that, in Spelunky, there are items you can equip, and there are a few intricate game mechanics that JGT just does not have. Overall, Spelunky has the more depth, so random generation matters more, and because of this, it generally is a better roguelite.

With daily runs, and really funny local coop and local pvp, you really cant do better than this. (And there is also an unofficial online multiplayer thingy.)

Offline Misery

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2015, 09:16:43 am »
I still don't know weather I want to look into it now I mean I like to take my time with games like this(at least when I'm learning) and I'm getting a bit of contradiction here ie one person is saying that time limit means you have to rush and the other is saying that its plenty of time i wish the dam game had a demo so I could decide for my self on that having to rush doesn't fun at all to me but I suppose a good way to see this for my self would be to find a video on it has anybody got any suggestions?. ps or you know the option to turn it seriously how is just to do that with things like?

The best way I can put it is this:

At low skill levels, your time is definitely limited; the ghost will be too dangerous to mess with.  The game will warn you when you're running out of time until it appears.

At high skill levels, well.... frankly the concept is still risky.  One mistake when screwing with the ghost, and you'll crash into the gigantic thing (instant death).  Spending extra time on the level screwing with the ghost for points is really only meant for those that are going for a high score.  Once you're good enough to do it, it is, frankly, boring.

The levels in the game also are pretty small.  They really dont take that long to do, but yeah, there may be that feeling of "well I didn't quite get to check everywhere" depending on your playstyle and how fast you are.

And one way or another... this is a difficult game.  There are many ways to die, and quite a few of them are insta-kills. And you're probably going to die really often for awhile (but what else do you expect from something that's part roguelike?).  But I can definitely vouch for the quality.  If you're up for a challenge, I'd say, just go for it.  It's a very good game.


Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2015, 09:25:32 am »
I still don't know weather I want to look into it now I mean I like to take my time with games like this(at least when I'm learning) and I'm getting a bit of contradiction here ie one person is saying that time limit means you have to rush and the other is saying that its plenty of time i wish the dam game had a demo so I could decide for my self on that having to rush doesn't fun at all to me but I suppose a good way to see this for my self would be to find a video on it has anybody got any suggestions?. ps or you know the option to turn it seriously how is just to do that with things like?

The best way I can put it is this:

At low skill levels, your time is definitely limited; the ghost will be too dangerous to mess with.  The game will warn you when you're running out of time until it appears.

At high skill levels, well.... frankly the concept is still risky.  One mistake when screwing with the ghost, and you'll crash into the gigantic thing (instant death).  Spending extra time on the level screwing with the ghost for points is really only meant for those that are going for a high score.  Once you're good enough to do it, it is, frankly, boring.

The levels in the game also are pretty small.  They really dont take that long to do, but yeah, there may be that feeling of "well I didn't quite get to check everywhere" depending on your playstyle and how fast you are.

And one way or another... this is a difficult game.  There are many ways to die, and quite a few of them are insta-kills. And you're probably going to die really often for awhile (but what else do you expect from something that's part roguelike?).  But I can definitely vouch for the quality.  If you're up for a challenge, I'd say, just go for it.  It's a very good game.
dying often doesn't bother me at all so I think I will take a look into this sometime when I get a chance thanks for all the(for lack of a better word) info its been super useful and it seems that spelunky has got more to interest me than the other roguelikes which for various really have never managed to get my interest.
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Offline madcow

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2015, 10:54:43 am »
I would say spelunky is an interesting enough game that it's absolutely worth checking out. Some people love it, some people don't but it's really a genre-defining game that has inspired a new generation of spelunky-likes that it's worth checking out.

And if you don't want to pay for it, the original version is absolutely FREE so no reason not to pick it up. It doesn't have multiplayer, the graphics, or the polish of the paid version, but the gameplay is quite similiar. I'm on my phone or I would provide a link, but I'm sure some quick googling will find it.

Offline Pumpkin

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Re: spelunky?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2015, 01:03:29 pm »
Let's look at 5 games from the RTS Genre:
(...)
4. Faster Than Light
???
Please excuse my english: I'm not a native speaker. Don't hesitate to correct me.