SimCity 2013 (or SimCity 5)

[LaughingThesaurus]

Oh I would absolutely love to hear the explanation for this nonsense.
I didn't particularly buy their nonsense in the first place, about the servers being outright required for gameplay, the cities being small for the sake of "running on the grandfather's computer"...  I was always a little skeptical, just because the game wouldn't actually be quite as pretty as it was if it was trying to run on 10+ year old hardware. You want accessible, your game looks like Torchlight or Simcity 4, not like Anno. Not to mention the fact that I actually had heard of (unreliable source) many cases before this news-- where people could play with their internet cable unplugged.
The idea I think was that their server would be processing simulation data to make sure that any old joe's processor could handle the game, while the smaller city sizes were there to ensure that you didn't ever render or simulate too much so that the other pieces of a computer can keep up.

[keith.lamothe]

Yeah. If this is true, I can't believe EA lied to so many people to pull off this deception. Its one thing to be an obstinate blockhead. Its another to lie to everyone like this and repeatedly do so. I'm going to be watching this very closely.

It just baffles me that they thought they would get away with it.  I mean, there are some very skilled hackers out there, that would love the challenge of "cracking" the game.  It wouldn't take them too long to realize that "cracking" it away from server-dependency (for a limited single-player experience, not the region stuff) was suspiciously easy.

It makes me wonder if EA/Maxis somehow figured this deception was a good idea despite (or because of?) the near-certainty of its discovery?

This could make my head hurt, better get back to something simple like programming

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Yeah. If this is true, I can't believe EA lied to so many people to pull off this deception. Its one thing to be an obstinate blockhead. Its another to lie to everyone like this and repeatedly do so. I'm going to be watching this very closely.

It just baffles me that they thought they would get away with it.  I mean, there are some very skilled hackers out there, that would love the challenge of "cracking" the game.  It wouldn't take them too long to realize that "cracking" it away from server-dependency (for a limited single-player experience, not the region stuff) was suspiciously easy.

It makes me wonder if EA/Maxis somehow figured this deception was a good idea despite (or because of?) the near-certainty of its discovery?

This could make my head hurt, better get back to something simple like programming

I think EA lives in their own world at this point. They think PC gamers are exactly like mobile gamers, that this version of SimCity is great and so many other mind-bogglingly stupid decisions that I don't think there is sanity to anything they are doing. Also: this: EA's simulation engine may not be nearly as advanced as we were lead to believe now. This just keeps getting worse and worse.

http://answers.ea.com/t5/Miscellaneous-Issues/Traffic-quot-AI-quot-This-is-why-services-and-traffic-are-broken/td-p/737060/page/2?ClickID=cnkqanq7izske7isflpanfavll4vlwfnpnka

[keith.lamothe]

I think EA lives in their own world at this point.

I think they're capable of intense stupidity, but I don't think they're literally stupid in general.  Their business wouldn't last long otherwise.

But maybe this really is just intense hubris.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

I think EA lives in their own world at this point.

I think they're capable of intense stupidity, but I don't think they're literally stupid in general.  Their business wouldn't last long otherwise.

But maybe this really is just intense hubris.

Yeah, maybe...

[LaughingThesaurus]

Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity.

[TechSY730]

I think EA lives in their own world at this point.

I think they're capable of intense stupidity, but I don't think they're literally stupid in general.  Their business wouldn't last long otherwise.

But maybe this really is just intense hubris.

I don't know. EA has enough money such that they even if they start turning losses on most of their new games, they could last a while (though they certainly would start panicking). Plus, there are their various [INSERT WORD OR NAME THAT IS ASSOCIATED WITH MAJOR LEAGUE SPORT] [YEAR] and several other main stays to continue to milk some cash out of.


Such a pity too, as they did good with SimCity 4, and more recently (but still a while back), Command and Conquer 3.
Maybe this is the Command and Conquer 4 of the SimCity, crud released as the major, main series installment immediately after a great one.

Seems like EA for a while seemed to be getting its act together again, only to fall apart once more.


Hey, look on the bright side. This now makes the job of a "offline crack" (which now is just pretty much going to be a server implementation that can run on a home machine, thus not really being much of a crack anymore*, but EA will treat it as such) much easier, as now only the "social network", "global economy", region management, and save game management need to be reimplemented and/or mocked.


*Ok, there probably will be some actual "crack" involved to bypass any sort of verification of legitimate install, as I doubt they could fully reimplement that without EA's private keys using the keys the game has, so the game would need to be edited to use a different public key (with a known associated private key the "local" server will use), or just edit the game to think the validation of keys was successful.

This is of course assuming that EA uses some form of public-private key authentication as part of their online game validation process. If they don't they are even more incompetent than I thought.

[Echo35]

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/12/simcity-server-not-necessary/

The tl;dr version is that an insider to Maxis has reported that the game really doesn't need an internet connection, as the only stuff handled server side is the regional stuff and save files, and several other sources have been able to play their games with no internet connection for upwards of an hour before the game booted them. So the whole "GlassBox is so advanced we need to run computations on our server" thing is total BS. Also some people have figured out that the game actually simulates less than 100 agents at any one time and does probabilistic math on the rest.

Not that any of that is a surprise in the least. Considering I run games like Dwarf Fortress, Crusader Kings, Tropico, AI War, etc perfectly happily on a laptop, those claims of their math being SO ADVANCED were highly suspect even before all this. And their "our regional stuff needs an internet server to manage" thing is also BS considering they had a much more advanced version already going with Sim City 4.

[LaughingThesaurus]

That's been posted earlier in the thread I think. Kind of caused a whole lot of outrage.

[eRe4s3r]

On the issue of Sim City.. I bought it for 27€ on GMG (was a great deal at the time) so let me tell you something.

The online requirement is like the least serious issue this game has.

The pathing in this game for traffic, energy and assorted uses A* for everything (and a very badly implemented A* at that)
If you are coder, you know why Maxis should be flogged alone for THAT. If you aren't.. google "A* pathing" and read the FIRST PARAGRAPH wikipedia offers you.

-> http://answers.ea.com/t5/Miscellaneous-Issues/Traffic-quot-AI-quot-This-is-why-services-and-traffic-are-broken/m-p/737060#U737060[

All pathing in this game is broken.



And secondly, the stupid as hell maxis coders, praise be their wisdom. Broke the R:C:I dependency by breaking the C:I part. Commercial does not require Industry produced freight anymore (Commercial receives MAGICAL freight shipments, yes, magical, out of thin air, every new day). In fact, you do NOT need to EVER build industry. Ever. In a Sim CITY GAME... wow..  we have proven it in the thread below.

-> http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/9358082.page



So wow, not only did they blatantly lie about glassbox and the agent AI (there is none). But they broke the 1 thing that was the whole point of Sim City, the R:C:I triangle.

Online only isn't a problem, it's what's underneath that really makes this one a total stinker.

Believe me, I really liked the game but the more I learn of the system underneath the more I hate it. This isn't a "simulation" at all. The agents are braindead randomized A* pathed.

Read the first posted link 1st post. And understand that this is how traffic AI, pedestrians and sims work. Sims don't have "their own home" sims do not have "their workplace" it is all RANDOM A* "Go to JOB until JOB full using A*, then go to next JOB until JOB FULL using A*" then the same backwards, go to house 1 using A* until full, then house 2 then house 3.

This is.. this is unspeakable. The preview videos they said you can follow the live of a sim from moving in to work to shopping to death. You can't. This entire talk of a simulation of the people is complete nonsense. Maxis has lied.

Here some more examples for you to laugh at

School Bus bug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3LZrZ_Lxks

Taxi Bug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Jc4e29K-FI

And here one of my own cities..

Notice my Major rating and 0 industry (built from scratch, only city in the region)
http://i.imgur.com/J1ScXQa.jpg

Explain to me how this is a City Sim when Industry can be left out and it still works. (And makes profit)

[Cyborg]

Ere4ser, why would you buy this game? You seem sharp. SimTown Facebook Edition always online didn't raise any red flags for you?

[eRe4s3r]

55% off from a pre-order is often what gets me ,/ I had (lots) of credits on GMG...... but even if the size is small I got lured in because it seemed as if they would really be simulating a full "city" not just abstract but properly. And that is what they promised!

Anyway, here 2 more gems.. citiy to 190k with just houses, no C and no I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACdu1ho2Ic4&feature=youtu.be

Here that fantastic "sims" simulation at work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=WH-CdkSqDSs

[Mick]

The video of all the cars driving into the houses in order is hilarious. It actually looked better when traffic was simply abstracted by fading in and out cars.

EDIT: The whole thing is depressing because a simple update to Sim City is something I'd really enjoy. Sim City 4 can be a bit wonky on modern hardware.

I don't believe that sequels should simply be reskins of old games, but they shouldn't change the fundamental stuff that works well.

[keith.lamothe]

55% off from a pre-order is often what gets me ,/ I had (lots) of credits on GMG...... but even if the size is small I got lured in because it seemed as if they would really be simulating a full "city" not just abstract but properly. And that is what they promised!

Why would you consider any "promise" from EA to be worth the pixels used to render the letters?  Though I guess Maxis has had a better reputation than that.

[eRe4s3r]

Maxis already said that EA had minimal influence on the development.. the Online only and simulation aspects are apparently 100% Maxis. And according to lead designer what-is-his-name the video there with orderly home occupation is 100% how the thing is supposed to work. No fixes incoming.

It's Spore all over again....