Author Topic: Router Problems with Laptop  (Read 2422 times)

Offline Spikey00

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Router Problems with Laptop
« on: August 09, 2010, 08:33:32 pm »
Sorry for all the additional edits!

While trying to host a game of AI War today (which didn't work out) I discovered that for some reason my laptop's ports could not be accessed, but my desktop was fine--the router is an ADSL line bridging wireless to my laptop, and my desktop is connected with an Ethernet cable.

I tried having only the laptop on, then with both on, and then with the desktop, and in all cases PFPortChecker reported my 32320 UDP and my other alternative 45678 were not open or unreachable on the laptop, but my desktop was fine (and  didn't complain when I was on AI War hosting, contrast with the "port already in use" dialog when I tried the same with the laptop).  Both of these have a minimal windows firewall, and I have tried to disable it on the laptop, to no avail.

However, in the end the other person could not join, and I could not join myself (IPs for my laptop and desktop were the same), though I am not at all acknowledged upon this matter as this would be my first time in possession of two computers.  I was not able to test it with another person because, well, no one was online!  In addition, we tried using Hamachi, and that failed to produce results.


TLDR:  1) why is my laptop reporting that the ports are not open, while my desktop is fine?  They both use the same router.  2)  Why could the other person not join my desktop's game if my ports are forwarded, and we were trying with and without Hamachi?

EDIT:  Oh, and both computers are using Windows 7 x64, if that matters.
EDIT:  PortChecker has always reported the Hamachi IP, even though ipconfig reports that my actual network is prioritized above Hamachi.

Also, I don't know if this is important, but it also indicates my 32320 TCP "could not connect to the portforward.com servers" (UDP is fine), but my 45678 is open for both (I tried both while hosting).

EDIT:  Tidalis reports "Server Start Error" when trying to connect laptop to desktop, so I assume I need to do something to allow LAN games (any) to be played between the two?  Again, I don't know what to do here, but I assume I need to assign the laptop a unique IP?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2010, 08:54:38 pm by Spikey00 »
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Offline x4000

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Re: Router Problems with Laptop
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2010, 09:45:24 pm »
To your first question, the complaint of AI War about the port already being in use has nothing to do with your computer -- that's referring to your laptop itself.  So, that means that another program is running and using that port; windows (like any sensible OS) only allows a single program to be a server on any given port. 

A port conflict like that can only mean one thing: some other program on your laptop is running under the same port.  I'm not aware of any other programs that use the AI War port, but it's of course quite possible.  That same behavior would also occur if you still had a second copy of AI War resident in memory with that port open as a server.

Regarding not being able to connect to the other computer "because you have the same IP," that's definitely not the case.  Your desktop and laptop have different local IPs, even if they do share the same public IP.  Otherwise windows would be complaining of "IP address conflicts" and nothing would work in terms of networking for one or both of the machines.

AI War doesn't use TCP any longer (hasn't since last August), so as long as UDP can be reached, that's fine.  If you're trying to host a local game of AI War, between your desktop and laptop, you need to be using your local IP addresses.  If you're trying to play with the laptop over the internet, and you used to be playing with your desktop, odds are that your port forwarding is still pointing to your desktop instead of your laptop.  It can only point to one or the other, though you can change it back and forth as you wish.

If Tidalis is having a "start server error" that's also very odd.  It could mean that something else is actively blocking any new applications from being a server (I'd check your security software), or it could mean that something is wrong with the network setup for your laptop in general.  No two computers should ever have the same local IP, and the only reason that having the same public IP works is because of the NAT on the router.  But if you're playing local-to-local, then your NAT and public IP would never even be used.  For that matter, Hamachi also won't work for local-to-local play.  You'd just use your local IP addresses, which you can find via typing "cmd" at the help/search prompt in windows, then by typing "ipconfig /all" on the machine to find out what your local area connect ip address is.

All that stuff for Internet play, including public IP addresses, VPN software, etc, all flies out the window when you play locally: you don't need any of it, and most of it just can't even work (because you only have one public IP).  And really, you don't want it to work: Hamachi is just simulating a private local network over the Internet.  When you're already on a private local network behind your router, you don't then need to simulate a private local network over the Internet back to your existing same private local network that both of your machines are on. ;)

It's really confusing stuff, I know -- hope that helps clear some of it up, at least!
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Offline Spikey00

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Re: Router Problems with Laptop
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2010, 01:41:03 pm »
Quote
To your first question, the complaint of AI War about the port already being in use has nothing to do with your computer -- that's referring to your laptop itself.  So, that means that another program is running and using that port; windows (like any sensible OS) only allows a single program to be a server on any given port. 

A port conflict like that can only mean one thing: some other program on your laptop is running under the same port.  I'm not aware of any other programs that use the AI War port, but it's of course quite possible.  That same behavior would also occur if you still had a second copy of AI War resident in memory with that port open as a server.

I mean to say that I was hosting AI War while checking the port on both of the computers separately, and only the laptop reported the port being use and was just wondering why this was so.

Quote
Regarding not being able to connect to the other computer "because you have the same IP," that's definitely not the case.  Your desktop and laptop have different local IPs, even if they do share the same public IP.  Otherwise windows would be complaining of "IP address conflicts" and nothing would work in terms of networking for one or both of the machines.

AI War doesn't use TCP any longer (hasn't since last August), so as long as UDP can be reached, that's fine.  If you're trying to host a local game of AI War, between your desktop and laptop, you need to be using your local IP addresses. 

Ah, okay, I would have thought so.  However, while I was hosting I could not find it listed in the LAN servers (any reason why it wouldn't appear here?), and then I tried used the public IP as the direct connect, so I shall try it again today with the local IP.

Quote
If you're trying to play with the laptop over the internet, and you used to be playing with your desktop, odds are that your port forwarding is still pointing to your desktop instead of your laptop.  It can only point to one or the other, though you can change it back and forth as you wish.

Ah!  I thought that both computers would inherit the port forwarding from the same router.  Thanks for this information, I have now cleared additional ports for this laptop, but can I assume that I cannot connect to my main desktop with AI War since I'm using a different client port?

Quote
If Tidalis is having a "start server error" that's also very odd.  It could mean that something else is actively blocking any new applications from being a server (I'd check your security software), or it could mean that something is wrong with the network setup for your laptop in general.  No two computers should ever have the same local IP, and the only reason that having the same public IP works is because of the NAT on the router.  But if you're playing local-to-local, then your NAT and public IP would never even be used.  For that matter, Hamachi also won't work for local-to-local play.  You'd just use your local IP addresses, which you can find via typing "cmd" at the help/search prompt in windows, then by typing "ipconfig /all" on the machine to find out what your local area connect ip address is.

I am going to check this again--hosting it right now with the laptop is working, but perhaps it's a problem when both are.

Quote
All that stuff for Internet play, including public IP addresses, VPN software, etc, all flies out the window when you play locally: you don't need any of it, and most of it just can't even work (because you only have one public IP).  And really, you don't want it to work: Hamachi is just simulating a private local network over the Internet.  When you're already on a private local network behind your router, you don't then need to simulate a private local network over the Internet back to your existing same private local network that both of your machines are on.

I was only using that to connect to someone looking for a game on IRC; neither of us could host or join even when Hamachi was used.

That brings up a question:  if both computers are hosting at the same time with the same public IP, would either function,  Nevermind, different ports, gotcha.  ;)


A great many thanks to you (as usual) Chris for all your help--you have definitely clarified much of this conundrum.  :)
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Offline x4000

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Re: Router Problems with Laptop
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2010, 02:56:04 pm »
Depending on the firewalls on the local machines (often the windows firewalls do this), often that can block the discovery of local games on the same network.  But it can be worked around.

Glad I could help, and good luck!
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Offline Spikey00

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Re: Router Problems with Laptop
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2010, 04:54:53 pm »
Oddly enough I can now connect both ways, but for AI War,  

Laptop hosting => Not seen in LAN by desktop (need to manually connect), additionally there are sometimes problems connecting to laptop when it is hosting.

Desktop hosting => Seen in LAN by laptop, is fine but in-game is moderately choppy; no downloads on either, and wireless signal is strong.

When the desktop could join the laptop's server I could use any ports whether they were open or not, but right now I can't join at all.  Windows firewall disabled on both public and private networks did not help.

Any ideas?

EDIT:  I was also matching the client ports while testing on both machines.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 04:58:22 pm by Spikey00 »
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Offline x4000

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Re: Router Problems with Laptop
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2010, 04:58:51 pm »
It's some other software interfering, from the sound of things, but I can't speculate on just what.  Your laptop may have more security software than you realize, something specific to the HP software there.

If it's choppy when the desktop is hosting, it might be something with the networking, or it might be that the desktop simply doesn't have enough CPU to also be the game host (two cores works best for that, but is not a strict requirement).  Also, even when a wireless connection shows up as full strength, that doesn't mean it's a perfect connection; usually that's one of the first things I suspect, and I try a wired connection first.  You can play AI War, like most games, over wireless, but often it's a better experience not to.
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Offline Spikey00

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Re: Router Problems with Laptop
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2010, 03:36:35 pm »
It appears to be that it worked (saw LAN) yesterday when my mate came over, so as long as it works (but probably won't avert the immediate hair loss when it doesn't work).  The connection gradually got better until it was only a WAIT for each couple second.

Thanks again for all your help, Chris (I hope it doesn't take too much out of your time).
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Offline x4000

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Re: Router Problems with Laptop
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2010, 08:13:23 pm »
No worries, and glad it's working!
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