Play with chemicals. In space.

[eRe4s3r]

Seeing it like that, i can understand what you mean. But i want to play games, and not solve (nor optimize) puzzles. I can barely accept doing it in games like Portal 2 but once we go 1 step closer to puzzles, Cogs, This game, Rush it becomes extremely "drab" to me. Maybe worse, once a solution is found i have 0 motivation to solve a puzzle again (even if it were possible to do differently)

At that point "resolving" it does not give me any enjoyment. In fact i realize that i could be doing something else at that point... ;p

Its funny that AI War is technically a sort of "reverse dynamic dismantling puzzle" where you take chunks out of a unstable system and try to cope with increasing volatile reactions. That is the ultimate definition of a fun challenge. It responds to you, it changes, its also always different.

I guess what i really mean though, is that i am a terrible coder (which is why i am not, you know, coding stuff ;p) and thus this game does not make me happy. Though it is challenging... once

[Nalgas]

I get what you mean, too, and I do like having those kinds of things in some other similar types of games and think it can add to them sometimes.  There's just a part of my brain that really likes logic puzzles (and even finds them oddly soothing), and the more pure and abstract the puzzle is, the less I want it diluted with other stuff.  The "softer" the puzzle side of things is, the more I like having those other elements in a game, though.

I guess what i really mean though, is that i am a terrible coder (which is why i am not, you know, coding stuff ;p) and thus this game does not make me happy.

Perhaps not surprisingly, SpaceChem seems to have found its most enthusiastic support/audience among programmers and people who enjoy doing similar things.  That's what most jobs I've had have involved, and I'm one of those weirdos who does stuff like study abstract math for fun in my free time, so that might have something to do with why it appeals to me but not to you.

In the same way, Steam says I've spent 50 hours and counting in Everyday Genius: SquareLogic (which is pretty much pimped out KenKen) by firing it up to kill time here and there on a regular basis, but it would probably bore you to death pretty quickly, because there's no "point" to it or game behind it.

[RCIX]

Grabbed the demo, and it's incredibly fun! only problem is once i started getting to the real puzzles i can't solve any of em 

[Nalgas]

Grabbed the demo, and it's incredibly fun! only problem is once i started getting to the real puzzles i can't solve any of em 

When I first got to the "real" ones after the tutorial, there was kind of a sudden gigantic leap in difficulty, and it took a bit for them to click.  Once they did, though, I felt like it moved smoothly again from there.  There's just that hump to get over when they suddenly make you start thinking for yourself and you have to figure out how the game really works.

[BobTheJanitor]

Oh, hello there: http://www.spacechemthegame.com/researchnet-update

[RCIX]

Was surfing around for SpaceChem videos and found this one: http://www.youtube.com/user/Dragon307#p/u/3/cInDIcdlC_M
o.O that's bloody brilliant!

*hopes there will be an ipad version at some point* (this is really the sort of game that would work well on the ipad, and its also the exact sort of thing id play there too)

[zespri]

Guys, Spacechem is great. I bought it back then, but due to some circumstances not related to the game itself I stopped playing it after I finished planet 3.
And a few days ago I dusted of the old steam purchase (and now it saves you progress on the cloud too) and again had some moments of pure joy as I progressed through levels.

The game is... yes, it's for nerds. For programmers. I so wish that my friends and family give it a try but it feels too boring/abstract for them.

It's a bummer that you can no longer upload your puzzles, that research net is no longer updated and that statistics are no longer gathered. But on the plus side there is an iPad and Android ports now, so if you were waiting for iOS release, now there is one

There are a few things in this polished and brilliant game that I would improve:
- re-assignable hotkeys, and more hotkey all over (like changing the color of the existing component)
- an ability to save *different solutions* of the same puzzle. Sometimes you aim for cyces and sometime for components and you want to save several attempts and progress

Also there is a very good recent article by the game dev which I very much liked reading:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/172250/postmortem_zachtronics_.php

If you are of analytical thinking and are not easily bored with difficult puzzles - give the game a try.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

This game broke my brain trying to play it. Its not a bad game, its just such an extreme level of difficulty that I don't quite find it as fun. But if your more into really difficult puzzles, this is definitely the game for you.

King

[keith.lamothe]

Yea; you may find this ironic, but I found SpaceChem pretty brain-breaking too.  I won't claim to be the best programmer but I've got several years experience in both single- and multi- threaded programming and I petered out shortly into the multi-reactor phase of SpaceChem.

But I think that's mostly because I'd already used up my "programming tolerance" for the day by the time I could actually sit down to play it

[zespri]

This game broke my brain trying to play it. Its not a bad game, its just such an extreme level of difficulty that I don't quite find it as fun. But if your more into really difficult puzzles, this is definitely the game for you.

I... you know AI Wars never has taken it with me. I really like it and I played the tutorial 3 times (like half a year apart) but whenever I start a new game I feel at loss at what to do. You need to know all these advanced tactics to survive like knowledge raids and what-not, you need to know what to research... I read wiki and it all seems overwhelming to the point that I give up. It is ironic, but I like AI Wars despite the fact that I was never able to actually play it.

With SpaceShem though I feel at home. There is a small very well defined ruleset and then endless possibilities. Yes, the game is difficult (and I haven't done even half of it yet - it becomes more difficult as you play - all games are, because they have to compensate for you mastering easier stuff). But it does not feel overwhelming like AI Wars does.

There are a few other games like AI Wars, that I know I will love if I get through the initial hurdle of understanding it, but I just do not have stamina of getting through. Maybe some day I will. And SpaceChem is not one of them, it engages immediately and keeps the challenge up.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

This game broke my brain trying to play it. Its not a bad game, its just such an extreme level of difficulty that I don't quite find it as fun. But if your more into really difficult puzzles, this is definitely the game for you.

I... you know AI Wars never has taken it with me. I really like it and I played the tutorial 3 times (like half a year apart) but whenever I start a new game I feel at loss at what to do. You need to know all these advanced tactics to survive like knowledge raids and what-not, you need to know what to research... I read wiki and it all seems overwhelming to the point that I give up. It is ironic, but I like AI Wars despite the fact that I was never able to actually play it.

With SpaceShem though I feel at home. There is a small very well defined ruleset and then endless possibilities. Yes, the game is difficult (and I haven't done even half of it yet - it becomes more difficult as you play - all games are, because they have to compensate for you mastering easier stuff). But it does not feel overwhelming like AI Wars does.

There are a few other games like AI Wars, that I know I will love if I get through the initial hurdle of understanding it, but I just do not have stamina of getting through. Maybe some day I will. And SpaceChem is not one of them, it engages immediately and keeps the challenge up.

I find that interesting because its the same for me with AI War, it simply clicks with me. I haven't been playing AIW for about 5 months now due to school, other games and such, but I could sit down tomorrow and pick it back up again. I'll probably make fatal mistakes because a certain developer will have ruined a strategy I used, but it is definitely fun for me. But I also really enjoy RTS-games. But SpaceChem...the feeling isn't there and that's fine. I'm glad someone actually likes SpaceChem and got enjoyment out of it because while I may not like the game, I like that someone is doing something like SpaceChem that is unique and challenging. What can I say, I support the crazy-nutball developers. Hence why I am always around Arcen's forums .

King

[Nalgas]

What really amazes me about it is that 95% of the game is played in your mind. I spend way more time staring at the screen and pondering than I do in actually placing components. And then I run it once and see what I screwed up and sit and ponder again for a while. I find myself thinking of puzzles when I'm away from the game as well, and then getting ideas and bringing them back later to solve something that was vexing me.

Looking back at this thread after so much time, this in particular jumped out at me.  It's interesting that someone's description of playing a game that's essentially a simulation of the experience of writing code to solve a problem is very similar to what I've said about why programming is interesting and rewarding.  I've had the same conversation more than once (including I think one time last year on here with Chris, if anyone's especially interested) which amounted to an extended version of that, about how contrary to the stereotype of it involving sitting at a keyboard clattering away typing full speed all day, it's really just a lot of thinking, for the most part.

Sure, the keyboard is there to get your thoughts into the computer, and you have to test your stuff to see if it works, and you spend time researching and playing around and learning new things, but that's all either just to feed the thought processes or a conduit to release them to the outside world.  Most of the real work is going on inside your brain, and what makes it both so exciting/satisfying and also sometimes hard for other people to understand when they can only see the end results is that all the fancy things you make the computer do are basically things you willed into existence with the power of your brain just by thinking about them really hard.

Sitting there and staring at a puzzle in SpaceChem for 20 minutes, then suddenly coming up with a brilliant idea hours later when you're going to bed and solving it by laying down a dozen symbols that you somehow magically know work is the closest thing I've ever seen in a game to...well, pretty much any bit of software you're working on and get stuck on, then similarly come up with an ingeniously simple and clever couple dozen lines of code after it's been sitting in the back of your head all day.  Because on some level, they're the same kind of process.

[BobTheJanitor]

I haven't played this in a while. I didn't even know they stopped updating researchnet and the comparison graphs. That's kind of disappointing. I wish they could find some sort of alternative hosting for that. Seems like an important bit of the game to just cut out entirely.

I'm glad to read some of his conclusions in that post mortem article. The game is great, but he could get a much wider audience for future titles if he finds a way to put the puzzles into a more inviting environment. You're already building a game around what is essentially programming, so making your aesthetic trappings look like chemistry was probably not the best idea. I'm not saying he needs to completely popcap it up with fuzzy cute critters and glowing lights and music, but there's got to be a good middle ground there. Try to ease people in with a nice environment (not to mention a friendlier tutorial) and lead them through the easy puzzles for a while first. Also he's quite right that tying the story to the ability to finish the entire game was no good. I was glad to see that they actually posted the entire story on their website, so I finally got to see how it turns out.

Of course there's plenty of room for the brain busting puzzles that take days to solve, but maybe not in the main campaign. Build that around concepts that can be completed by the average person who likes puzzle games, instead of the average person who likes differential calculus. I still think it was a brilliant game, but I freely admit to getting stuck in the middle and giving up. I was left wanting more, but my only options were puzzles that I inevitably gave up on after staring at for half an hour and making no progress.

He's been making these sorts of games for a while, though, and previously they were pretty much limited to the more hardcore fans. Now that he's had some breakout success with a wider audience, and clearly learned some important things from it, I look forward to whatever his next game might be with great interest.

[zespri]

http://ironcladtactics.com/

[RCIX]

Since Zespri rebumped it...

I love the single-reactor puzzles, quite braintwisting and cool. Multi-reactors is like "you know how you solved one puzzle before? now solve 3 at once!".