Paid mods for skyrim

[Zebeast46]

This is just my opinion, but a friend convinced me to play skyrim and I got a grand total of 13 hours on it. The reason I only had 13 hours was due to 2 reasons mainly {there were a bunch of small things that annoyed me too} 1 was the combat, the animations just felt wrong and lookedso weird and there was almost no skill involved in the combat compared to a game like mount and blade and 2 was that some of the dungeons early on were really hard, as in I did a necromancer mission where I had to help expel a necromancer from a shrine, and it was so hard that I had to redo quite a few times trying to beat it because my gear was not the best. Then after I finally beat the necromancer the goddess flew me up into the air gave me a sword enchanted with fire and then dropped me to my death. I realized later that it was a bug and that there is supposed to be a transition before you it the ground and because I died I had to refight the necromancer.

Just my ramblings on skyrim

[Draco18s]

PC sales only account for 14% of the total, though admittedly that doesn't speak for longevity of the console players. Anecdotally, all my friends who've played Skyrim have done so on console without mods and enjoyed it as well.

Just FYI, "sales" and "total play hours" are the wrong way to measure a game's popularity.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/15/introducing-steam-gauge-ars-reveals-steams-most-popular-games/
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1) Whore stealth by crouching in the middle of town and leaving the game running overnight. (Bug/Balance Issue)
2) Installing a mod that lets me craft armor. (Modding to provide missing feature)
3) Going to [place] and beating [dungeon] for [specific armor]. (Impractical, given my issue surviving a pack of wolves)

I'm unsure how you ran into this issue. Skyrim has a lot of problems but being blocked from progressing by a tough enemy on the world map has never been one I've ever heard about except for the singular case of the oft-cited frost troll on the 7,000 steps.

"Tough enemies" are not actually tough.  I was an even match for three wolves or one mountain lion.  So Just after killing the first dragon (which I did shockingly little to help defeat) the quest options available to me from whereverthefuck I was included passing through a frozen area which had frost wolves (or something along those lines).

I would die to one of them in about three hits.

"Get a horse" I was told, so I did.  Even trying to avoid aggroing the wolves by going far out and away from them, skirting two packs I'd inevitably attract something's attention, which would one-shot the horse if I didn't get off it, or I'd get off and attempt combat only to be one-shot myself.  And I had no ability to fight from horseback.

At which point I explained that I'd been trying to locate heavier armor than I'd found initially, hence the three solutions to my problem (as I was wearing a mix of heavy, medium, and light armor, bifurcating my armor skill).  The fourth option was to nuke my save and restart because there was heavy armor available at the start of the game, it was just hidden where you wouldn't find it by accident.  Which further shows that Bethesda doesn't know how balance works.  They gave us free reign of weapons, but not armor, knowing full well that having a matched set and sticking with it is better in the long run.

[Coppermantis]

"Tough enemies" are not actually tough.  I was an even match for three wolves or one mountain lion.  So Just after killing the first dragon (which I did shockingly little to help defeat) the quest options available to me from whereverthehug I was included passing through a frozen area which had frost wolves (or something along those lines).

I would die to one of them in about three hits.

"Get a horse" I was told, so I did.  Even trying to avoid aggroing the wolves by going far out and away from them, skirting two packs I'd inevitably attract something's attention, which would one-shot the horse if I didn't get off it, or I'd get off and attempt combat only to be one-shot myself.  And I had no ability to fight from horseback.

At which point I explained that I'd been trying to locate heavier armor than I'd found initially, hence the three solutions to my problem (as I was wearing a mix of heavy, medium, and light armor, bifurcating my armor skill).  The fourth option was to nuke my save and restart because there was heavy armor available at the start of the game, it was just hidden where you wouldn't find it by accident.  Which further shows that Bethesda doesn't know how balance works.  They gave us free reign of weapons, but not armor, knowing full well that having a matched set and sticking with it is better in the long run.

 The article's interesting, but I'll confess that I didn't read all of it as it's quite lengthy and a bit dense--from what I can tell, it's still measuring users' gameplay hours, though? I already acknowledged that sales don't account for how long people continue to play the game for, and that my only evidence to back up the point (that console players still enjoy the game, ergo mods are not necessary to make Skyrim a pleasant experience) was anecdotal.

I still think you're being unfair in your assessment of Skyrim. Based on what you're telling me, you're describing the journey from Whiterun to High Hrothgar, which takes you up a mountain pass inhabited by frost creatures (from frost wolves to frost trolls and stuff in between based on your level). This can be a difficult run for low-level players, so, if you're having trouble, then you can do other quests and become more powerful in the mean time. Skyrim is a huge world and there's plenty to do to level up before tackling a difficult zone. Whoever told you that getting a horse was the solution to your troubles didn't give the best advice. Sprinting through on a horse can get you past enemies as they are faster than wolves, but you have to be careful about it and take advantage of how enemies deal with terrain.

Heavy armor is not the sole solution to your troubles, nor is it even remotely hard to acquire. You hardly need to restart for that--Earn some gold and buy a set from a blacksmith or get some pieces from chests in dungeons. Any. It's not correct that they give you "free reign of weapons but not armor." It's hardly counter-intuitive that adopting a "jack of all trades, master of none" playstyle will make your skills in any individual area less strong. That applies to any skill, armor or weapon (not just in Skyrim either.)

Like I said earlier, saying you only have 4 options isn't correct. The race you're playing can give you more tools--a Nord could use the battle cry ability to make the wolves run away, an Imperial could use Voice of the Emperor to soothe them, a Wood Elf could use Command Animal to turn one of them to your side, etc. Or just be careful and whittle them down with conventional attacks, kite them around, make use of unrelenting force to keep them back, there are tons of possibilities. And again, if it's tough, you can retreat and come back later with better gear/skills. The complaint I've more often heard is that the game is too easy--if people can play through the game entirely on Legendary (max) difficulty and do just fine (I know it's doable because I have) then the balance being skewed impossibly against the player is not accurate.

If Skyrim's not for you, then that's fine. It has a lot of legitimate issues, or maybe you just don't like it. No problem. But from what I'm hearing it sounds like you're just not in to it and therefore aren't really putting much effort into problem solving, instead blaming your issues on "Bethesda not knowing how balance works." It hardly has to be modded to make it playable--make it better, sure, but the travesty you're painting it isn't the case.

[Cyborg]

Draco, I have no idea what you're talking about. I have never run into those issues playing that game. The hardest part about combat  was switching skills on those horrible menus. I never found the enemies to be challenging at all.

[Draco18s]

The article's interesting, but I'll confess that I didn't read all of it as it's quite lengthy and a bit dense--from what I can tell, it's still measuring users' gameplay hours, though? I already acknowledged that sales don't account for how long people continue to play the game for, and that my only evidence to back up the point (that console players still enjoy the game, ergo mods are not necessary to make Skyrim a pleasant experience) was anecdotal.

I'll have to reply in greater detail later, but:
it isn't about measuring hours either. It's about measuring hours per active player.

That is: if a player plays, how long do they invest?

That is, a game that keeps a small population for on average a huge number of hours each, it's better than a game with mass, but short, appeal. It doesn't matter if a million people play for an hour each, racking up a million total hours: is appeal is only an hour, not a very good bang for your buck. A game that attracts only ten thousand players and they each play for 20 hours has much better appeal. Yes it's a narrower audience, yes It had fewer total hours, but it kept them for twenty times longer.

[chemical_art]

Draco, I have no idea what you're talking about. I have never run into those issues playing that game. The hardest part about combat  was switching skills on those horrible menus. I never found the enemies to be challenging at all.

I am in the same boat you are. I had to intetionally seek out a mod to give me a challenge. Even that mod I thought was fair, it just required me to think rather then just blindly think "Do X, Y, and Z. Win. Repeat".

In other words there is a lot to complain about skyrim, but the vanilla difficulty is not one of them (at least, until this thread)

[TheVampire100]

Some people even complain that Skyrim was too easy and not too hard. Esspecially the dragons that make the major part of the game.
Personally I never find Skyrim either too hard or too easy.. There were some spots were I tought "Shit, this is really hard but I won't give up."
And there were spots were I wlaked through as there have been nothing to fear.
Overall the game is really balanced. And don't forget, it is open-world, you can go anywhere at anytime and this makes it really possible that you end up in a spot that wasn't made for new characters. While the game does scale up with your level, you will still feel an overall progress of your strength compared to other enemies.
There was this one spot on the 7000 steps with the frost troll that as unfair. This was an early part of the game and facing such a strong creature was a bad idea. The only thign I could do was to run (what I did after multibple fruitless tries). But these spots are rare. It also depends on your playstyle. Players with sneaking plus bows says they dominate evrything because of the damage multiplikator.
There was a part where you had to sneak through a mansion full of elves. I hated that part, not because it was generally hard but because I didn't level sneaking and had to go the other route: Forcing my way through the enemies with brute strength. If I had sneaking on the other hand this part would've been pretty easy.
There are always parts that are specially suited for your type of character but not very good made for others. And in other places it is teh direct opposite. Dragosn are pretty easy to kill with magic and bows but a pain int he ass as melee character especially since dragons can temporaly blind you when you are directly at their front and they use their breath.

Using mods will of course shift the balance. that's because the game developers don't develop the game so it balances out mods. If modders add new strong skills or items this wil of course make everything easier. If you want to go from the balance of a game you have to see only the vanilla version, not the modded version.

[Draco18s]

Its more like I unintentionally gimped myself by not-knowing something every long-term Elder Scrolls player already knew, putting me into an unwinnable situation.

Because I went into the game knowing less than an experienced player, I was punished for it, in a game that doesn't work well when you get completely hosed. Restarting is boring and frustrating, continuing is frustrating.

[TheVampire100]

Yeah, this does happen. But to be fair: is it any different in Arcen Games? ;-)
As a new player you get the same helpless feeling of not knowing what to do and that you get defeated because there was somethign that you could've known but didn't.
Also, you can always save, you can always run away. You don't have to fight any creature in the game, most monsters can be ignored because they are slower than you and even dragons can be outsmarted.

I found teh Gothic Series a lot harder. More so because they don't have the typical lecel scaling of the TES games, they are hard right from the start and everywhere you go there is a big "Nope, not there!". The game is REALLY punishing to you when you choose the wrong path.

[Coppermantis]

The article's interesting, but I'll confess that I didn't read all of it as it's quite lengthy and a bit dense--from what I can tell, it's still measuring users' gameplay hours, though? I already acknowledged that sales don't account for how long people continue to play the game for, and that my only evidence to back up the point (that console players still enjoy the game, ergo mods are not necessary to make Skyrim a pleasant experience) was anecdotal.

I'll have to reply in greater detail later, but:
it isn't about measuring hours either. It's about measuring hours per active player.

That is: if a player plays, how long do they invest?

That is, a game that keeps a small population for on average a huge number of hours each, it's better than a game with mass, but short, appeal. It doesn't matter if a million people play for an hour each, racking up a million total hours: is appeal is only an hour, not a very good bang for your buck. A game that attracts only ten thousand players and they each play for 20 hours has much better appeal. Yes it's a narrower audience, yes It had fewer total hours, but it kept them for twenty times longer.

I see. I suppose it depends on the intended length; if a game is supposed to be short then it seems alright if its appeal is broad but it doesn't maintain people for long. Short and sweet vs. painfully drawn out.

In Skyrim's case it's obviously shooting for the long term and its success there is debatable, sure. It maintains an active community to this day, but at least on PC that's no doubt aided by mods which was the original point of this conversation I think. I don't know of any data for consoles that don't have mods available to see if it's equally long-lived.

[Draco18s]

Yeah, this does happen. But to be fair: is it any different in Arcen Games? ;-)

...Arcen games are meant to be played from start multiple times?

[Coppermantis]

There was this one spot on the 7000 steps with the frost troll that as unfair. This was an early part of the game and facing such a strong creature was a bad idea. The only thign I could do was to run (what I did after multibple fruitless tries). But these spots are rare. It also depends on your playstyle. Players with sneaking plus bows says they dominate evrything because of the damage multiplikator.
There was a part where you had to sneak through a mansion full of elves. I hated that part, not because it was generally hard but because I didn't level sneaking and had to go the other route: Forcing my way through the enemies with brute strength. If I had sneaking on the other hand this part would've been pretty easy.

I think that the frost troll was actually sensible. It's there for a reason: to act as a gateway and force people to pace their way through the main quest thereby promoting exploration of what else the game has to offer. I've heard people just rushing through the main quest and then thinking "now what" once they finish, so by making it so that a powerful enemy blocks the way to a destination players will have to explore other options to get more powerful themselves and discover other questlines, etc. This is speculation of course, but I think it makes sense--same reason they put Aela and the companions in the Whiterun farms, to introduce the play to the concept of joining guilds as side quests early on.

Of course I missed the pathway entirely and scaled the side of the mountain to get to High Hrothgar, but what can you do?

[KingIsaacLinksr]

So apparently this became the Skyrim discussion thread o_o....

[Captain Jack]

Gone back to it. Not a real thread until it's been threadjacked twice, and really, what did you think was going to happen when you have a thread with Skyrim in the title on the internet?

[eRe4s3r]

So apparently this became the Skyrim discussion thread o_o....

It's 25% on-topic.. that is pretty good for the off-topic forum ;p