Paid mods for skyrim

[Zebeast46]

Just wondering what your opinions on payed mods are? In case you did not know steam has just started a feature that allowed the makers of skyrim mods to charge money for the mods.

[Dominus Arbitrationis]

I don't like it. While I get mod makers need something for their time, charging money for mods that anyone can replicate in their entirety legally just seems stupid. I mean, if the mod is pretty much a whole new game I can understand it, but I think then it would need to be cleared by the developers, rather than letting anyone do that.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

The inexcusable behavior by the people disagring with this is...well inexcusable. (spam, threats, etc).

For myself: Modders do a lot of hard work to create their mods. And if some wish to get paid for that, then, well, they now have the option. Clearly, Bethesda is quite alright with it. So if the game studio, Valve and the modder are alright with the mod being paid-for, I see no reason for controversy. It's not like we haven't seen this coming, what with the Mod DLC store on Defense Grid 2 and other indications from Valve themselves. That said, some of the mods being pay-for are ridiculous. We're going to have to figure out what deserves to actually be pay-for and what simply shouldn't be allowed. But I think the market is mostly going to dictate that.

Obviously the system isn't without its hitches. I already see plenty of questionable mods, with some being stolen from other authors and then there's a question of mods that use copyright. Valve seems to have just ignored that problem. There's a lot of problems with the implementation and I can get people being upset about that. It's good that Valve implemented a refund system in from the get go but why can't we have a similar system for games?

My major disagreement is with Valve. Valve taking 75% of the revenue is gross. Valve shouldn't even remotely take that much. I could see 20-25%, not 75%. If anything, the bulk of that should go to Bethesda. Something like 50% to Bethesda, 30% to the modder and 20% to Valve. Or 40/40% to modder and Bethesda respectively and 20% to Valve.

To conclude: I agree with the general principle of what's being done here, just not the execution that Valve has implemented so far.

[Zebeast46]

I completely agree with King Isaac linksr and apparently Totalbiscuit shares a similar view, but one of my concerns is that some of the people who dislike only dislike it because it costs money but overall I am in the middle about having to pay for mods (there should probably be some sort of quality control) but valve's implementation is pretty bad.

[TheVampire100]

I have nothing against a modder that want something for his work. But he had no problem in his entire life to give his stuff away for free. And suddenly Valve pops ip an idea and tehy jump on to it?
And the worst part, Valve get's 75% of it for literally doing nothing. As a modder I wouldn't even consider this. Okay, you get a small revenue from it but Valve get's the biggest part and you had all the work with it. Does this seem fair to anyone? Valve shouldn't be so greedy with this new idea (which isn't new at all, we had DLC before which is the same but not from third parties).

A more friendly option would be nice to leave it to the customers if they want to pay for a mod and not forcing them. And I see already the 1$ Skin replacements popping up.

Also, it's a hobby. I don't get any money from my hobbies and i also spend a lot of time (and money) into it. People to this in their free time because they want to and not because they want money. Well, appearantly some WANT money.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

But he had no problem in his entire life to give his stuff away for free.

But neither have modders had a different option. This is just how it's been but that doesn't mean that we can't change our way of thinking about modding and the community around it. Creating and playing videogames was once a hobby too. Now we have multi-billion dollar companies and e-Sports built on it. For better or worse. Whether this becomes anything bigger than a hobby will be up to the general gaming population. 

There is a pay-what-you-want option. It's up to the modder to use that option.

[TheVampire100]

But he had no problem in his entire life to give his stuff away for free.

But neither have modders had a different option. This is just how it's been but that doesn't mean that we can't change our way of thinking about modding and the community around it. Creating and playing videogames was once a hobby too. Now we have multi-billion dollar companies and e-Sports built on it. For better or worse. Whether this becomes anything bigger than a hobby will be up to the general gaming population. 

There is a pay-what-you-want option. It's up to the modder to use that option.

You can force passwords on folders and give the passwords only to people that pay you a fee. You have ALWAYS the option if you want to.
"Pay what you want" is not the same as "pay if you want".
I would only buy a mod if it's an expansion in itself. Meaning more quests with new NPCs, maybe new locations (but that's an extra) and some new items. And of course it has to be done right, not like the lazy HL2 mod.

Some minor stuff could you always do for yourself and sicne I don't buy cosmetics as DLCs from the developers of a game I won't start with the modders. And I bet that's what most modders will aim for: Simple skin replacements of weapons, chars, armor and so on.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

But he had no problem in his entire life to give his stuff away for free.

But neither have modders had a different option. This is just how it's been but that doesn't mean that we can't change our way of thinking about modding and the community around it. Creating and playing videogames was once a hobby too. Now we have multi-billion dollar companies and e-Sports built on it. For better or worse. Whether this becomes anything bigger than a hobby will be up to the general gaming population. 

There is a pay-what-you-want option. It's up to the modder to use that option.

You can force passwords on folders and give the passwords only to people that pay you a fee. You have ALWAYS the option if you want to.

Yes, but it's never been approved by the original developers whether you could do that or not. Having approval by the original devs is important for a lot of people as well as being accepted by the general community at large. My impression is that most if not all modders have been unable to make people pay for their mods due to the attitude generally held.

"Pay what you want" is not the same as "pay if you want".

If Steam allows for $0, then yes it is pay if you want. Bandcamp and other sites operate in the same way so I'm only guessing that Steam does as well. I do not know as I'm not aware of any mod doing that right now.

I will point out: Paid Modding has already been on-going for the past couple of years. People are making it their job to mod. See: Counterstrike:GO, DOTA2 and Team Fortress 2. Granted in those cases there's been a form of curation behind it and you couldn't do the types of modding that you can do in Skyrim but the principle is still the same.

[eRe4s3r]

I am absolutely 100% against this (at least as Steam Workshop exclusive) because this leads to exactly 1 future and that future is a future where modding becomes nothing but DLC that Publishers suddenly can monetize without actually spending a single dime on making. If this isn't fought fiercely now it will end with games DRM'ing mods. With mod tools only working with the Workshop, etc. And where only the rich can afford mods. Also it will make developers even lazier and half-ass the content and just release engine + tools. Some may argue that Skyrim is ALREADY that.

And finally, i think it is absolutely abhorrent that mods that dependent on other mods monetize even though those dependencies prohibit commercial use. All my mods and all my free artworks have a "non-commercial" clause and I would enforce this with lawyers and sue steam up the seven hells to defend that. And I know many dependencies for Skyrim that have this clause. They are all on the nexus.

Steam just opened up a can of worms with this.

And the end result is a modding wasteland because this will inevitable lead to opposing mods being created free vs paid on different platforms. Already now there are plans to recreate all the (big) mods that are paid exclusives on steam skyrim workshop and release them for free on the Nexus.

[TheVampire100]

Steam does not offer 0$ prices. You can check this out for yourself.

[KingIsaacLinksr]

Steam just opened up a can of worms with this.

I completely agree with this sentiment, though I think you are taking the worst-case-scenario idea and running with it. I mean, cmon, there are already publishers that make DLC that have little to no effort/money put into them. ;P (Skins). It kinda seems like this was a very half-assed idea that didn't take any licensing or copyright laws into account. At all. I mean, I'm not going to be surprised if Steam gets its pants sued off for copyright violations alone. It's amazing to me that Valve took none of what you mention or what can easily be seen on YouTube videos featuring the wackiest mods on Skyrim alone and thought: "Huh, we MIGHT want to address that before we launch this idea". I can't tell if its naiive attitudes or incompetence that caused Valve to not address these issues.

[eRe4s3r]

Expect the bad, plan for the worst

I was fearing this ever since Steam Workshop became mandatory for some games. Cities: Skylines in particular annoyed me greatly because it is a HUGE mess with compilations on workshop... how long until the dependencies for a mod you like cost money, get removed from your subscription and break all 99 other mods in your subscription list?

Also even more than monetization. I like how nobody yet remembered that this also means censorship. Because steam censors and moderates workshop items heavily. This actually makes me like Steam a LOT less.

[TheVampire100]

On a notice,you can see submitted but not accepted paid mods in the workshop. What I see there is either intended trolling or they mean it serious. i hope for the first.
Mods that add trash (yeah, real trash) to your game. And one for 100$ that offers you a new weapon to "show off" but you don't even get a screenshot of said weapon.
Please let it be trolling, some people cannot be THAT lazy. Can they?

[Misery]

I see this as a bad thing, and a bad thing only... no exceptions to this.

Because what it is in actuality is MICROTRANSACTIONS.   In a new, stupider form.  The fact that each one comes from a different source does not change this... they're still microtransactions.  And ones of dubious quality, at that.  I've seen mods for LOTS of games.  I've used them.  And, FAR moreso than official content, they can be INCREDIBLY SCREWY.  Even the highest quality mods can do some really strange, damaging things when they run into issues. The chance of this happening is very dramatically higher than with official content. Even moreso with a game like Skyrim, which is already a glitchfarm to begin with.

Now, I'm fine with the idea of DONATING and such.  If a mod maker has just been putting out tons of amazing stuff, people WILL donate.  And there are a variety of valid ways to encourage this.  Best example that comes to mind for me is Minecraft's "Feed The Beast" mod.... thing.  Not just a mod, but an entire launcher of great quality that not only comes with gigantic complicated modpacks (LOTS of them), but also makes it soooooo much easier to stick more mods into any given pack if you should feel like it.  Normally the process of adding a mod to the game can be... difficult.  And filled with problems.  Particularly if there are already mods running.  I've spent hours yelling at the screen trying to stick the damn things in manually.  And then this came along.... and I havent had to do that since.  And what these guys have done to get money is not any of that microtransaction crap.  They first built up this software, and related maps/mods/whatever of their own.  They made it incredible, they got it out to people, they got it popular, and they just kept showing off just how much they could do with it.  Once it hit a certain point, they simply started offering things in a completely seperate shop.  Not digital content, mind you.... I'm talking actual physical things.  Shirts, mugs, various things that are quite cheap to make, but that people are happy to buy because they're interesting, and they support the devs in a non-annoying fashion. You can pay for these if you want, or even just donate I think, but you DONT pay for the launcher.  And of course they can do things like put up proper ads on their site to generate more money, as is normal on the Net.  This, to me, is a great way of doing it.  And it's working for them;  the team is looking to expand even further, as it is right now.

Now obviously that exact model isnt going to work for everyone, but there's TONS of different ways that something like this could be handled in a manner that DOESNT restrict the actual in-game content.  People could get creative with this.  As opposed to trying to sell you new sword models, or mods that may or may not interact very badly with other mods (which can happen in any game that uses mods). Mod making is great, but I'm sorry, I'm not going to pay for something that ISNT a game as if it was a game.  And really, only the biggest modders, brought to a high status by constantly making all sorts of awesome things, should be attempting ANYTHING of this nature to begin with.  There's no way in hell I'm going to pay for a mod from a modder I've not heard of!  Or if I research someone and see that they've made like, 3 swords and almost a castle, it's like... I'm sorry, but no.  You havent proven enough to me yet, I'm not going to support you for now. 

And note, this has exactly squat to do with the actual cost.  I'm not in a position of having money issues.  Not even close.  Hell, I'll go out and purchase full-priced games at random out of simple boredom.  And I dont mean the sort of boredom that occurs over the course of a couple of weeks, I mean "I've been bored for 30 minutes.  I think I'll go get something new for the heck of it" sort of thing. I do this *often*.  This doesnt dent my funds in the slightest; as a rule, I can do what I want, when I want.  So yeah... it's not about the price.  It's more about the practice.

And what I mean by that:  It's just the same, again, as the microtransactions..... which means that eventually, inevitably, it *will* lead to people getting greedy, and starting to do some of the nasty things that the big publishers are doing.  I dont believe for a fraction of a second that this WONT happen.  And that's where the downward spiral will get going.  Obviously not all modders will do this;  there will be many that will rail against the very concept of this, offering tons of stuff for free simply because they have awesome ideas that they would love for others to play with, and just to support the game in question and it's community.  But many will dive into that downward spiral of greed, doing whatever they can to suck up more and more cash while offering less and less, and such as that. 

So, yeah... Obviously nobody has to agree with me, but I just thought I'd toss my own input in here, as someone that likes using mods in a general sense.

[Coppermantis]

Ugh, I don't even want to have to deal with this nonsense. I'm just going to keep using Nexus. Sure, some folks are pulling their mods from Nexus, but I seriously doubt that the big, highly-respected mods are going to go that route--the backlash would be even worse than it already is. Yeah, some cool armor and weapon sets are going behind a paywall, but there are going to keep being free alternatives.

I support modders getting money for their work, and this does get rid of some legal grey area that existed with informal donations, but there are a lot of potential problems--mods ending up being incompatible is a big one--you get a 24h refund period, but that's not always enough. I've done all kinds of tinkering that can last for days before I end up with a stable system. And then you have updated breaking mods, people stealing mods and charging for them--given Valve's general lack of curation, I wonder how frequent that sort of thing will pop up.