Author Topic: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins  (Read 21288 times)

Offline Misery

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2016, 03:43:46 am »
I've finally decided to just get none of them myself.

Overwatch would kill me with boredom (found TF2 boring as well, just too damn mindless for me) and irritate me with my own aiming issues.   MAYBE it might be better on console (no mouse) but that'd require actually hooking up the damn console (bah) and wouldn't solve the boredom part.  And paying money that I could use to buy something else.  Provided it even has a console version, heck if I know.

Battleborn has a lot of good concepts but too many problems and utterly, totally braindead publishers (based on everything I've heard at this point, all of their bad, bad decisions have probably killed it; I mean, really, $60 *and* they have their "buy lottery tickets" thing?  And they release this at the same time as Blizzard's game?  Smart...).


I still cant even remember what the other options are without looking at posts above this one, which says all I need to say about the others

Bah.  I suppose I still don't have much in the way of good options for multiplayer games of any genre other than fighters right now.  That's moderately irritating.

Offline Mick

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2016, 08:20:30 am »
I liked TF2 back in the day, but my biggest beef with it was that I couldn't just easily slip into a good game. You had to search for a server, hope there was enough people on it playing (and still room for you to join), hope it had a good ping, hope it was running a somewhat normal game mode, and hope the people on it were around your skill level. I just wanted to press a button and play damnit!.

I was in the Overwatch closed beta, it is exactly what I was looking for. Love the maps, love the character design, love the ability to just group up and play! Blizzard nailed it.

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2016, 01:28:03 pm »
I liked TF2 back in the day, but my biggest beef with it was that I couldn't just easily slip into a good game. You had to search for a server, hope there was enough people on it playing (and still room for you to join), hope it had a good ping, hope it was running a somewhat normal game mode, and hope the people on it were around your skill level. I just wanted to press a button and play damnit!.

What amuses me about this (I feel the same as you) is that the Dungeon Defenders community wants a server browser, they don't like the "click button, play game" matchmaker.  To be fair, there's like 3 dozen different options: what game mode, what map, what difficulty.  But still? A server browser?  Why?

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2016, 01:45:23 pm »
Yeah, I'm not going anywhere near any of those games. I mean, they may be excellent for all I know, but I just look at them and fall asleep. I guess I'm just not into shooters anymore. Doom still has me interested though, although not for the multiplayer content.
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Offline Coppermantis

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2016, 02:42:34 pm »
I liked TF2 back in the day, but my biggest beef with it was that I couldn't just easily slip into a good game. You had to search for a server, hope there was enough people on it playing (and still room for you to join), hope it had a good ping, hope it was running a somewhat normal game mode, and hope the people on it were around your skill level. I just wanted to press a button and play damnit!.

I was in the Overwatch closed beta, it is exactly what I was looking for. Love the maps, love the character design, love the ability to just group up and play! Blizzard nailed it.

if I remember correctly, didn't TF2 at some point introduce a "jump into match" feature that worked basically like Overwatch's? Anyhow, server browsers are nice to have as an option because you might find a server you like (maybe it runs cool mods or it has a friendly playerbase) and you can favorite it to return to rather than being dropped into a random available match. There was a server in TF2 that I liked that ran a custom, modded map where you could "roll the dice" to get special powers or risk a debuff. It was quite fun and I liked being able to find it in a browser at will.

Having the jump-in button is convenient too, but I'd like to have both, ideally.
I can already tell this is going to be a roller coaster ride of disappointment.

Offline Mick

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2016, 03:07:47 pm »
if I remember correctly, didn't TF2 at some point introduce a "jump into match" feature that worked basically like Overwatch's?

I think so, but at the time I played it I don't think it worked very well. I remembered pretty much having to hunt through servers to find a decent game.

Offline TheVampire100

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2016, 01:14:06 pm »
if I remember correctly, didn't TF2 at some point introduce a "jump into match" feature that worked basically like Overwatch's?

I think so, but at the time I played it I don't think it worked very well. I remembered pretty much having to hunt through servers to find a decent game.
They have and they have somewhat refined it but it's still not pleasable for everyone. You can select if what type of game you want to play, the maximum number of players, if you want to play on Valve servers or player servers (I refused to play on player hosted servers) and some other stuff I don't remember. It can still happen that you end in a crappy server and you cannot directly select the map you want to play on, only the game mode. However it was good enough to jump quickly into a server.

Offline Misery

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2016, 01:28:28 am »
So, someone I know has convinced me to get Overwatch to try it out, citing that I really don't have much else to do right now when it comes to multiplayer stuff, and also citing the fact that he's not going to shut up until I do.  I cannot argue with this logic,  Who knows, maybe it'll be fun.  Youtubers I follow that are playing it sure seem to be enjoying it. 

So far, my experience has consisted of trying not to beat the monitor to death with a box of CDs due to dealing with what I consider the most irritating site on the Net, which would be Battle.net.   I absolutely cannot overstate my blazing hatred for that "service".   Imagine me doing every conceivable sarcastic gesture at once when using that word.  Probably would need like 80 hands for that though.

Even Cloudflare doesn't irritate me as much as that, and that's quite the feat there.


Currently I must now run to the Walmart to buy a 20-freaking-dollar Goddamn Stupid Blizzard card to pay for the ***TWO*** dollars of tax on the stupid thing, because they're too irritating to maybe, you know, sell cards at 25 dollars instead of 20 (which would make dealing with tax on the usual even-amount purchases dramatically easier, which is likely why they did not do this). 

I would just use my dumb debit card to pay the rest, but apparently this is a brain-melting task to their server, this being the one and only site I've *ever* seen where it takes 3 freaking days to process the mind-blowing sum of 2 dollars.  I love how it makes a point of telling me this.  As if it's proud.  WHY, exactly, are their servers not on fire?  Because I cant figure that out.  Either fire or 20000 bees need to factor into this somewhere.

I swear, every time I deal with these idiots, I wonder how the hell anyone could ever LIKE them. 


I'm not even going to go into what I had to do to even get into my damn account.  Let's just say, I'm getting rid of the authenticator.  It can go back to the pits of Hell, where it obviously spawned.


*ahem*

But I'll post some impressions of the game after I've finally had the chance to maybe play the damn thing, no thanks to Battle.net.   


I'm surprised though, it's released, and yet nobody here has really said much about it... is nobody here actually playing this yet?   I was rather expecting there to be quite a bit of talk going on here about it now that the full version is playable.


EDIT:  Okay, it even takes 3 damn days with Paypal.   IT'S LIKE A FAILURE FACTORY.   Oh, but wait!  It will work instantly if I pay with JUST Paypal, rather than paying to add 5 damn dollars of balance to add to the already-existing balance!   IT'S LIKE A FAILURE BURGER WITH EXTRA TRAGEDY.

Again:  Fire, or bees.  TAKE YOUR PICK.

I think I've gone right through angry sarcasm and out the other side here.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 01:45:43 am by Misery »

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2016, 03:39:41 am »
Now that I've tried Overwatch and Paladins, I'll probably compare them both.

Overwatch is a really good game, but it has a lot of flaws and frustrations (this is based completely on my own opinion of course), that are going to frustrate the hell out of you.

For one thing, the amount of abilities/attacks in the game that can instagib you is...unbelievable. And often times you'll have no idea how it happened (until you see the Kill Cam of course). But what I mean is, you can get killed instantly while having no idea what hit you or where your opponent was. Often, the abilities that do this are hero "ultimates", so in that way it's somewhat forgivable but not really because the ultimate charges really fast and I've seen people used their ultimate multiple times within the same minute. The best you'll get is an audible indication (the enemies usually say a specific audible line before they use the ult), but the thing is, there's 21 characters, and they all talk constantly, so learning the specific voice lines of the ultimates of every given character is...going to take awhile.

Then of course there's a lot of non-ultimate abilities that can either kill you instantly or near-instantly. Black Widow sniper rifle headshot can kill most characters instantly, but even a full charged body shot will usually take 7/8ths of your health, so if you were hurt in any way before or after that, you're dead. Bastion can morph into a huge Gatling Gun that is deadly accurate even at extreme ranges and will kill most characters in a second or two. Hanzo is the same as Widowmaker. If you accidentally walk into a room full of Symmetra traps you're more or less dead instantly. If you accidentally step into Roadhog's bear trap you're ensared for eternity, so in a fast-paced FPS that basically means you're dead.

Now of course, all the ways the game has provided to kill you instantly would be okay, I suppose, if you could actually get back into battle, but you usually have to wait about 10 seconds after you die; and I haven't even told you about the worst part of the game yet. The worst part of the game is DEFINITELY the travel times. The distance between your spawn point and any given objective destination is sometimes 30 seconds or more. It's very easy to get lost on the way because the maps usually have tons of rooms and paths that are dead ends, and it's never very clear how to reach your goal in the most efficient way possible.

Often times, you will have spent more time walking than actually playing the game. Since there's no 'sprint' feature, and since the objectives are so far away from the spawn point, expect to spend a lot of time doing this. However, neither of these two mechanics (the sheer level of instagib and walking distances) on their own are too unforgivable, it's only when you combine them that it often makes the experience of playing the game unbearable.

A situation occurs very often where you'll walk across the entire map after you've died to get to your objective destination, and then die instantly to some stupid ability or character who knows the map better than you, and was hiding in a corner or on a rooftop you didn't expect. Now you get to watch a glorious ten second cutscene of them gleefully killing you, then walk across the entire map again. This can happen over and over and over until the entire match was basically spent dying, waiting, respawning, walking, then dying again. I expect this to make Misery extremely ragey, and I look forward to the inevitable post.

Now of course, there are ways to limit this. One obviously is to be a good player. If you don't die often, you get to enjoy the game. Knowing the maps really well helps because then you're less likely to get killed from an angle or location that you didn't even know existed. Also knowing the maps means knowing the fastest route to your destination (less time walking). Playing tank characters means you're liable to last longer in battle, though you can still die pretty damn quickly, and often one of the frustrating things about the tank characters is that they're just giant, hulking targets that everybody focuses. They also move reallllly slow compared to the lighter characters, so if you don't have a healer, it's tough to find a health pack. Also few people like to play healers. Expect to die a lot.

One other fatal flaw of the game is that it cycles through the maps on its own, without even giving you so much as a vote on which one you'd like to play next. IF you could practice the same map over and over (this is what I do in CS:GO, I learn each map one at a time competitively because it's a lot more fun when I don't die because I have no idea how the map works), then it would probably be a lot more enjoyable because at least then you would know where the most common camping spots are, and how to get to your destination the quickest way. Knowing a map well in games like these is extremely important for more reasons than I care to list. However, since it seems you really have no say in this, you're basically going to get thrown on any of I'd say a dozen maps or more, so expect to get killed in confusing and frustrating ways for the first 100 hours or more until you have a decent handle on all of them.

In that way, Overwatch very much resembles a typical MOBA. Not just because of the cartoony art design, the individual hero mechanics, the ultimates, the audible interactions, the objective-based design and everything else like that, but also because for most people it has such a massive time tax. And you can be sure that unless you're a 15 year old kid living in his mother's basement, most players are going to have spent a lot more time on the game than you have, giving them an incalculable advantage. Let me put it to you this way, there is no company in the world who has players sinking more hours into their games than Blizzard. World of Warcraft? I rest my case.

It also resembles a MOBA in your reliance on the team. It's not a typical team shooter (Battlefield or CSGO) where an individual player can clinch the game on his own. Since the heroes are separated into classes, each class is usually necessary to achieve victory, and so you can only perform your role in the game. Your role is of course, limited, and therefore your reliance on the other 5 players is heavy. If your team sucks, expect to lose.

Now of course, one could assume that given all the negative things I've had to say about this title that it's a bad game. It's absolutely not. As I said, there are solutions to most of the problems, but they usually require a time and commitment that most people on this forum are going to have no interest in, even if with their busy lives they could give it.

In some ways Paladins is nice because being instagibbed from full health is rare, you usually see the enemy players before they kill you, the maps aren't that complicated, and the hero mounts make travel so much faster which means you don't have to spend 30 minutes walking between your spawn and the objective. Overwatch obviously has the advantage in production value however, and you're going to feel that instantly.

Which isn't to say, once again, that Overwatch is a bad game, but do not let the cartoony style fool you. It is extremely and unforgivingly hardcore.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 03:46:14 am by Wingflier »
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Offline Misery

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2016, 04:58:31 am »
Hmm, I'm not too worried about the time commitment part; typically genres that I get into most (shmups, fighters) are exactly the sort that require TONS of practice... and when I say I have nothing but free time, all the time, I'm not exaggerating.  I don't work a job of any sort and haven't in probably... 8 freaking years.   The stuff for Arcen being the exception but that's very different since I do it when I happen to feel like doing it and it doesn't suck.  Too bad more jobs cant fall into the "doesn't suck" category, but that's a whole other rant.

So that aspect doesn't bug me all that much, though a game like this is something that I look at in a bit of a similar way to TF2:  not the sort of thing I'd get into in a competitive way.  I've done that with fighting games, and while it CAN be fun, sometimes it's just irritating.  And I don't get as motivated when on a team, so I'm likely not going to do ranked stuff in this game (typical for me) once that mode is up.  Not that I wont try to git gud, but still.

Now, this is going to sound like the most ridiculous comparison in the history of ridiculous comparisons, but having seen a bunch of the game today, and reading some stuff on it including what you just wrote, what it reminds me of now is not TF2.  What it reminds me of now is actually the recent sequel to the Plants VS Zombies shooter (which is fantastic).  That one has a lot of similar aspects:  It's "hero-based", with each hero having different amounts of HP, different main weapons (and a secondary shot), and then 3 activated abilities that tend to range from "hm, that's pretty useful" to "totally absurd".   The speed of character movement, even, is similar.  The bizarre ability to sometimes insta-squish even heavy characters is there.  The.... walking.... is there (someday, someone will figure out a way around that, in designing this genre of game; the only game to get this right so far is Nintendo's Splatoon, where you just do this huge violent leap to any part of the map).  And the idea of each hero fulfilling a different role overall is there as well (damage, tank, sniper, healer, so on).

The game has it's problems, definitely (really, the damn WALKING, why cant this genre as a whole get away from the "run back to the fight" part? And yes it's inevitable that I'll get ragey about that at some point here, I raged about it in that game too) but it's still quite fun.   Usually.  When the derp happens in that one is the same as other games like this:  When you're in objective-based modes, and people are after their damn kill streaks. 

But yeah, I'm expecting a lot of the issues you mention.  PARTICULARLY the one about the healers.  I've gotten resigned to that damn role.  When I was playing LoL and Dota, usually used healers.  Same in PvZ, I mastered the damn Sunflower (though this one also, bizarrely, has a giant freaking deathray though it cant be fired often).  I'm expecting to end up in the same damn role in this too. 

Which has it's issues.... one thing that ALWAYS bugged me was those moments where I'd rescue someone from their own idiocy, stopping them at that very moment when they were just about to stick their heads into a blender, and they yell at me because they think they were going to do something awesome.  With like 2 HP remaining and a fireball coming at their head.  Yeah, I can see how that works out.  Wether or not this game has the sorts of healer abilities that can cause that particular anger, I'm not sure.  I know LoL sure did.   Happened a lot in MMOs, too.  They screw up big-time and suddenly jump INTO the dragon's mouth, and it's the healer's fault somehow.

Though I also tend to figure, at least in that role I know that healers SHOULD BE HEALING.  Not trying to get kills or attack stuff at times when it doesn't make much sense.  If the healer role is left to someone else, I often find that they just get derpy with it.  May as well do it myself.


The only other real problem that I *know* I'm going to have is... it's a team-based game.  Those tend to be big on communication.  As an autistic individual, I'm about as communicative as a brick and get easily overwhelmed in social situations; as a rule this means the first thing I do is turn all the voice chat stuff off.   May sound dumb, but... has to be done, in my case.   Though, honestly... as I'll be playing with randoms all the damn time, I doubt I need to hear the screams and curses anyway, they aren't going to be of much use.



On a total side note, I see this is another Blizzard game where some character has a move called "Death Blossom".  Somebody at Blizzard, not sure who, really likes a certain old movie.  Cant blame them, the Death Blossom was my favorite scene ever, in anything.  Best... attack... ever.   Though I haven't seen this game's version of it, just heard of it.



Anyway.... bah.  Walmart!  Have to go there before I can play this.   Might just hold off until later since I'll be going to bed in a couple of hours here.  Also just because Walmart is irritating.

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2016, 07:31:49 am »
Don't worry too much about the voice chat. You can turn it off but nobody ever uses it. I've probably played thirty games and I haven't heard it used once.

People generally communicate through the team chat, if they bother to communicate at all, which in this game is half the problem. I have a very sneaking suspicion that I'm continously going up against teams of friends because the enemy team always seems to be coordinated while my team is a hot mess. That's the nature of these games though, it's always better with friends. Solo is in a sense a death sentence which is probably only more proof that we're masochists. By the way I'll have to get your Blizzard info later, we could play if we were ever both online.
 
Perhaps you enjoy playing healer but I wouldn't recommend it in this game unless you're playing with friends or good players. Healers work best with tanks (like TF2) because you can't heal someone who's been instagibbed. Besides if you can keep the tank alive, generally speaking that means he can protect you as well and your team. There are some characters in the support category that aren't strictly healers but which still support the team in some way. You might like those too.

The problem with having a dedicated healer class on a team of uncoordinated idiots is A) They all like to pick squishy assassin characters and die instantly B) They never stick together making your job near impossible. At that rate you'd probably be better off supporting your team in some other way like playing a tank to protect them from their own incompetence. Occasionally though you will get a team good enough to deserve a healer and those are the best games.

The character who has Death Blossom is Reaper (really annoying to play against) but in effect it works almost exactly like Fiddlesticks ultimate, it just does a ton of damage in a small aoe around him for a short period of time. However, given that he can teleport, it can be placed quite effectively.

I can see why you don't like Walmart. You don't have to have social anxiety to detest that place lol.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 07:34:01 am by Wingflier »
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2016, 08:17:59 am »
I do definitely relate to the darn Battle.net terror...that service has never worked well.
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Offline crazyroosterman

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2016, 12:38:45 pm »
I do definitely relate to the darn Battle.net terror...that service has never worked well.
i remember when I used to play hearthstone that it would sometimes shit it self and die but usually I found it to be fine but that is of course a casual tcg I imagine over watch is going to have more than a few server problems for a while before blizzard get round to fixing it.

ps for those unsure about battle born here's a vod from one of tbs multiple battle born streams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wcCaGsp_ic
c.r

Offline Draco18s

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2016, 12:46:42 pm »
Watched this recently.

Top 5 Overwatch tips for new players
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEJu8en9vuo

#1: turn on the kill-tracker hud thing
#5(b): turn on the kill-tracker hud thing

One of the other ones is "don't run around the map solo, you're going to get yourself killed."

Offline Coppermantis

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Re: Overwatch, Battleborn, and Paladins
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2016, 02:43:09 pm »
Now that I've tried Overwatch and Paladins, I'll probably compare them both.

Overwatch is a really good game, but it has a lot of flaws and frustrations (this is based completely on my own opinion of course), that are going to frustrate the hell out of you.

For one thing, the amount of abilities/attacks in the game that can instagib you is...unbelievable. And often times you'll have no idea how it happened (until you see the Kill Cam of course). But what I mean is, you can get killed instantly while having no idea what hit you or where your opponent was. Often, the abilities that do this are hero "ultimates", so in that way it's somewhat forgivable but not really because the ultimate charges really fast and I've seen people used their ultimate multiple times within the same minute. The best you'll get is an audible indication (the enemies usually say a specific audible line before they use the ult), but the thing is, there's 21 characters, and they all talk constantly, so learning the specific voice lines of the ultimates of every given character is...going to take awhile.

Then of course there's a lot of non-ultimate abilities that can either kill you instantly or near-instantly. Black Widow sniper rifle headshot can kill most characters instantly, but even a full charged body shot will usually take 7/8ths of your health, so if you were hurt in any way before or after that, you're dead. Bastion can morph into a huge Gatling Gun that is deadly accurate even at extreme ranges and will kill most characters in a second or two. Hanzo is the same as Widowmaker. If you accidentally walk into a room full of Symmetra traps you're more or less dead instantly. If you accidentally step into Roadhog's bear trap you're ensared for eternity, so in a fast-paced FPS that basically means you're dead.

Now of course, all the ways the game has provided to kill you instantly would be okay, I suppose, if you could actually get back into battle, but you usually have to wait about 10 seconds after you die; and I haven't even told you about the worst part of the game yet. The worst part of the game is DEFINITELY the travel times. The distance between your spawn point and any given objective destination is sometimes 30 seconds or more. It's very easy to get lost on the way because the maps usually have tons of rooms and paths that are dead ends, and it's never very clear how to reach your goal in the most efficient way possible.

Often times, you will have spent more time walking than actually playing the game. Since there's no 'sprint' feature, and since the objectives are so far away from the spawn point, expect to spend a lot of time doing this. However, neither of these two mechanics (the sheer level of instagib and walking distances) on their own are too unforgivable, it's only when you combine them that it often makes the experience of playing the game unbearable.

A situation occurs very often where you'll walk across the entire map after you've died to get to your objective destination, and then die instantly to some stupid ability or character who knows the map better than you, and was hiding in a corner or on a rooftop you didn't expect. Now you get to watch a glorious ten second cutscene of them gleefully killing you, then walk across the entire map again. This can happen over and over and over until the entire match was basically spent dying, waiting, respawning, walking, then dying again. I expect this to make Misery extremely ragey, and I look forward to the inevitable post.
I didn't play enough of the beta to really experience these problems, but they sound like a lot of what I experienced in TF2. There weren't as many instakills (sniper headshots and backstabs mostly, or maybe a direct critical hit from a rocket launcher), but they were there and could be annoying. Thing is, they could be avoided by a skilled player by either avoiding known sniper positions or doing good spychecking, while the impression I get from a lot of Overwatch videos and my limited playtime is that a lot of the ult abilities are unreasonably difficult to avoid.

The respawn time I don't really mind, as 10 seconds seems pretty par for the course compared to TF2 where spawn times could range from a few seconds to 20+. The travel times I experienced didn't seem too bad, but, again, I didn't play that much and the videos I've watched usually edit out downtime for obvious reasons. There were often long distances to travel in TF2, especially on Payload maps, but they solved this problem with spawn points changing depending on capture progress and the prevalence of Engineers. Symmetra I believe gets teleporters similar to the Engineer's, but the problem is that, with the smaller team sizes and greater variety of characters, you won't always have her on your team while in TF2 you would almost always have an Engineer or two.


The lack of healers seems pretty typical of shooters like this. Which suits me just fine, actually, since I love playing healers, even when my teammates are playing questionably. I loved doing Medic in TF2, so Mercy is pretty much my dream. I can heal and fly (kind of), which is awesome.

« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 03:01:01 pm by Coppermantis »
I can already tell this is going to be a roller coaster ride of disappointment.