Author Topic: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'  (Read 8453 times)

Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2010, 04:27:14 am »
Well it would be interesting to see how this plays out for companies involving said technology, especially on the stock markets, though I don't know how many people would believe another 2012 story even if this one has scientific background.

Lets just say I might need a new job if worse comes to wosre... :P (am I in the satcom buniess)
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2010, 07:11:36 am »
If this really becomes such an huge EMP effect then that is possible to cause end-of-world type effects. But i am one of the "what are the chances for that happening in my lifetime" guys  ;D

But that said, a powerful solar eruption can very well cause a EMP and if that happens, then tis goodbye world. Where world is electricity and Internet. Of course the world wouldn't end - and powerful industrial nations might be able to recoup over the course of 10 to 20 years, but only through massive mobilization of all military assets to maintain security together with police and citizens. But how much of the world would still be there after 20 years of darkness? I know people who could hardly imagine living 1 hour without electricity or Internet.. and i am one of them.

One things for sure, such an EMP would solve the over population problem  ;D
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2010, 07:17:43 am »
If this really becomes such an huge EMP effect then that is possible to cause end-of-world type effects. But i am one of the "what are the chances for that happening in my lifetime" guys  ;D

But that said, a powerful solar eruption can very well cause a EMP and if that happens, then tis goodbye world. Where world is electricity and Internet. Of course the world wouldn't end - and powerful industrial nations might be able to recoup over the course of 10 to 20 years, but only through massive mobilization of all military assets to maintain security together with police and citizens. But how much of the world would still be there after 20 years of darkness? I know people who could hardly imagine living 1 hour without electricity or Internet.. and i am one of them.

One things for sure, such an EMP would solve the over population problem  ;D

I do not agree that there is an overpopulation problem, really. There are a lot of us, sure, but not too many. People have lived for thousands of years without electricity, I am sure we can manage a few months. Its not like it will take a super immense effort to build basic stuff up again (and imo the military will only mess things up, no need for em) :).
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2010, 09:34:16 am »
Overpopulation is when a population has grown above the self-supply limit of a nations agrarian infrastructure. And we have crossed the over population limit already 5 decade ago

Also it would not be months, it takes for an industrialized nations 20 years, maybe more, to rebuild all Transformers that are currently in use - and the primary structure of our power grid. An Emp would fry them all since because of cost savings nearly no industrial grade transformer is protected against EMP - and likely destroy the entire grid while going out. Can be repaired yes, but not in 3 months - or even 2 years.

Most Power plants would also fail, because industrial scale transformers do not exist as spares.

All car batteries and grounded batteries would also be dead - all connected to the grid devices - dead. Theres around nuclear safe structures that can produce power from oil so power would exist for reconstruction, but reconstruction in rural areas might well never happen.

Even if i don't think it'll happen, reality is that a strong Solar EMP is something that if it happens, would mean good-bye Digital Age, and welcome dark ages.

Edit: Note that an average nuclear attack EMP would not kill cars or plunge us into a dark age, only very strong solar flares could do that...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 09:38:58 am by eRe4s3r »
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2010, 11:51:29 am »
Overpopulation is when a population has grown above the self-supply limit of a nations agrarian infrastructure. And we have crossed the over population limit already 5 decade ago

Also it would not be months, it takes for an industrialized nations 20 years, maybe more, to rebuild all Transformers that are currently in use - and the primary structure of our power grid. An Emp would fry them all since because of cost savings nearly no industrial grade transformer is protected against EMP - and likely destroy the entire grid while going out. Can be repaired yes, but not in 3 months - or even 2 years.

Most Power plants would also fail, because industrial scale transformers do not exist as spares.

All car batteries and grounded batteries would also be dead - all connected to the grid devices - dead. Theres around nuclear safe structures that can produce power from oil so power would exist for reconstruction, but reconstruction in rural areas might well never happen.

Even if i don't think it'll happen, reality is that a strong Solar EMP is something that if it happens, would mean good-bye Digital Age, and welcome dark ages.

Edit: Note that an average nuclear attack EMP would not kill cars or plunge us into a dark age, only very strong solar flares could do that...

Maybe in a full blown EMP yes, but I do not think we will face that kind of disaster. I hope ;)

Regarding overpopulation, the only real measure to use, imo, is Earths capacity, not a single nation. And in that respect we do indeed have enough resources to give each and all of us houseing, and food. There simply exists too many petty divisions among our nations, and a general lack of will from the ones in power to really do anything. Most people seem merly content to maintain the status quo.

And a bit more on that matter, I belive its absolute nonsense to have such considerations, all that really prohibits us from multiplying as we wish is technology ;). Earth not big enough? Colonize mars. Not enough, take some of jupiters moons. Need more? Make some space habitats. We got enough raw minerals in space for it. Its just a technical challenge, really, and we could do it with todays technology. Albeit some more reserch would simplify the methods, but that will not take long.

So to me, overpopulation is not a problem, the only "problem" is to actually get our fingers out of our asses and make something happen. with gene modified foods we can more then feed all of us, and we got 70% of the planet surcafe unused. We can easily build up, and down as well. Its merly a few technical challenges. But we seem too distracted by common petty daily issues to do anything worthwhile now a days.
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Offline Spikey00

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2010, 01:05:34 pm »
Well, NASA had a short partition in a 2006 article about it (which leads me to be a bit skeptical, but nonetheless)

Quote
When the belt is turning "fast," it means that lots of magnetic fields are being swept up, and that a future sunspot cycle is going to be intense. This is a basis for forecasting: "The belt was turning fast in 1986-1996," says Hathaway. "Old magnetic fields swept up then should re-appear as big sunspots in 2010-2011."

Like most experts in the field, Hathaway has confidence in the conveyor belt model and agrees with Dikpati that the next solar maximum should be a doozy. But he disagrees with one point. Dikpati's forecast puts Solar Max at 2012. Hathaway believes it will arrive sooner, in 2010 or 2011.

"History shows that big sunspot cycles 'ramp up' faster than small ones," he says. "I expect to see the first sunspots of the next cycle appear in late 2006 or 2007—and Solar Max to be underway by 2010 or 2011."

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/10mar_stormwarning/
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2010, 03:22:29 pm »
I get the feeling Ozy is a fellow Venusian? Or perhaps a cechnocrat?
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Offline zebramatt

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2010, 03:28:32 pm »
Sounds interesting, certainly.

Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2010, 04:13:41 pm »
I get the feeling Ozy is a fellow Venusian? Or perhaps a cechnocrat?

You could say I am both, kind off ;)

I have not actually joined the project as such (only really heard about it half a year ago), but I do think their core ideas are admirable, and the only real way to go forward into the future for the human race. We can achieve and create so much if we only set our minds to it.

I kind of arrived at my viewpoints based not just on the Venus Project, but my own research and my own observations. And a lot of time thinking, several years to get my thoughts to mature enough and to really try and see things in the bigger picture. I got an education in space-technology, and I now work as an engineer, and I do understand the technocrat idea very well, to say it like that :). My faith in the current politicians is not really that good ... ;). When I was 14 years old I got my first science fiction books from my uncle, and that helped inspire me to get that particular education, but also to think is terms of using space more, and think about the possibilities it can offer us. But I am digressing :P

I really love discussing such thing though, and when I have the time I can go on for a long time. :)


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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2010, 05:58:50 pm »
Well, over population is however still a reality particularly on those places where food is scarce population and reproduction will, however not and once oil production decreases and food prices multiply the idea of "we can feed everyone on this planet" becomes absurd. Yes we can feed everyone on this planet, but nobody is gonna send free food to starving people when rich people pay 40$ for a lump of bread.

And the Venus project has so far produced a lot of hot air and 0 results. Its nothing but a markting gag, and time be better spend to build things, instead of fantasize about them (like where are the city domes with self-sufficient biospheres in each building and regenerative heat and water cycles?)
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2010, 06:52:05 pm »
Well, over population is however still a reality particularly on those places where food is scarce population and reproduction will, however not and once oil production decreases and food prices multiply the idea of "we can feed everyone on this planet" becomes absurd. Yes we can feed everyone on this planet, but nobody is gonna send free food to starving people when rich people pay 40$ for a lump of bread.

And the Venus project has so far produced a lot of hot air and 0 results. Its nothing but a markting gag, and time be better spend to build things, instead of fantasize about them (like where are the city domes with self-sufficient biospheres in each building and regenerative heat and water cycles?)

As I said, the idea behind the project is great, so bashing it since it has done nothing physical is kind of bad thing to do imo. More then anything it can give inspiration. And lets face it, the current politicians sure do not inspire anything at all. In addition, how do you expect a 1 (or 2) man project (as it has been for a while) to build cities? He is afaik trying to gather support now, to try and get the idea seeded. Did you really expect him to build entire cities alone? ;). Rome was not built in one day, and if the builders gave up on day one when the ideas was initiated, well, there would be nothing ;). Such huge changes do not come fast and quick, but they must start somewhere, and such beginning often just start with one man and one dream. It might not be the Venus Project that is the future, but I do surly hope something similar is coming sooner rather the later. It do not even need to have all the things the project dreams about. To start; simple concrete and and basic food will be a blessing for the third world.

Our current system is the thing that is stopping us form achieving a better future for all of us. The socio economic system we have is garbage really. We need the will of the people and capable leadership. One need only take a brief look at it as is, and we see entire countries and continents being poor and basically slave labor for the more rich ones. This is a problem I think, one we need to sort out. We need to break down the artificial barrier of "race", religion and nations and such eventually. We need to stop seeing others as "them", and rather see any other human as one of us. We are after all the same.

If you give up on your dreams, however far fetch they are, you give up on yourself. I rather try and work towards a goal I find worthy then just "accept what is". i fully acknowledge what is, ofc, and I hold a job, pay bills and all that jazz since I have to. But why should that stop me for wanting a better future, from wanting change? :)

To that end I see over population as just a technical problem that we can solve (so I see reducing population as treating a symptom, not the root cause). But there is lack of will. And as you pointed out, our economy is rather disruptive to real progress on a humanitarian level, its great at finding things that will make you more money, but fairly little else. So why not disapprove of it? :)



So yeah, I might be a "dreamer", I might hold ideas that are not common (yet). But I sure as hell will not give up on them just because there has not been any real things built and done yet. ;) (not that I think that is what you really meant)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 06:54:19 pm by Ozymandiaz »
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2010, 09:05:48 pm »
Well my point is, if you want to change something don't try to change a system with PR statements that can only be changed by you actively participating in it. If you don't like politicians lack of initiative you should put yourself up for election ;)

The Venus project now goes on for a long while and when all i see that they produce are video clips and Pr statements then that leaves me astounded, by their lack of initiative. Where are the detailed calculations showing self sustainable cities and buildings are not only realistic, but profitable? Surely a feasibility study doesn't cost the world? As i understand it the reason why new buildings are not build sustainable in both food, water and heat/energy is that it would cost so much that nobody but the extreme rich could finance it. And that is exactly why project Venus sounds good on paper, but is nothing more than speculative science fiction. Without the super rich nations who abuse the weaker nations daily advances in science that the Venus Project realization would require, would simply not happen at all before our oil runs out - and the whole situation becomes way more fun.

And yes - i disapprove of capitalism and stock exchanges whole heartedly. But there is a vast difference between wanting change and working towards it.

This reminds me of a funny quote, by me ^^, "If we make everyone poor equally rich, we would make everyone rich equally poor."
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 09:07:33 pm by eRe4s3r »
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2010, 04:10:52 am »
Well my point is, if you want to change something don't try to change a system with PR statements that can only be changed by you actively participating in it. If you don't like politicians lack of initiative you should put yourself up for election ;)

The Venus project now goes on for a long while and when all i see that they produce are video clips and Pr statements then that leaves me astounded, by their lack of initiative. Where are the detailed calculations showing self sustainable cities and buildings are not only realistic, but profitable? Surely a feasibility study doesn't cost the world? As i understand it the reason why new buildings are not build sustainable in both food, water and heat/energy is that it would cost so much that nobody but the extreme rich could finance it. And that is exactly why project Venus sounds good on paper, but is nothing more than speculative science fiction. Without the super rich nations who abuse the weaker nations daily advances in science that the Venus Project realization would require, would simply not happen at all before our oil runs out - and the whole situation becomes way more fun.

And yes - i disapprove of capitalism and stock exchanges whole heartedly. But there is a vast difference between wanting change and working towards it.

This reminds me of a funny quote, by me ^^, "If we make everyone poor equally rich, we would make everyone rich equally poor."

I agree. I want change, ofc, but I want to work towards it. However, I am unsure how to work towards it in a meaningful way. Until I find a way I can contribute, I try to at least inspire others ;). And to me the Venus Project is a source of inspiration, and important at that. It promotesd an "utopia", but the reality is that any such thing will only come eventually after long hard work. :)

And try as I might, I very much doubt I would make a good "typical" politician, no one would want me since I promote change, and change scare the current status quo ^^
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Offline eRe4s3r

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2010, 09:00:20 am »
If your "change" would involve me sharing my food with someone then i would not vote for you, my food is holy! ;D

Reminds me, you seen news lately about Mozambique... bread prices increased by 30% - revolts and pillaging, imagine what would happen if prices increase 300% for all. The rich might simply buy less of something else, but the poor will starve.

Capitalism, Ho!  ;D (You should google that ;p)
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: Massive solar storm to hit Earth in 2012 with 'force of 100m bombs'
« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2010, 10:21:03 am »
If your "change" would involve me sharing my food with someone then i would not vote for you, my food is holy! ;D

Reminds me, you seen news lately about Mozambique... bread prices increased by 30% - revolts and pillaging, imagine what would happen if prices increase 300% for all. The rich might simply buy less of something else, but the poor will starve.

Capitalism, Ho!  ;D (You should google that ;p)

My change innvolves some sort of goverement/organizing body making sure everyone gets adaquate food and housing

Not taking from some and giving to others, but providiong a basic framework for all so to speak. ;)

I am rather against rampant capitalism as now as well. ;)
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