Hearthstone

[Mick]

If you don't even play it, then what basis do you hold your opinion that Old Gods "killed their own game"?

Even though I don't play the game to know all the ins and outs of it, even I, as an outsider, can see how a card like C'thun (and more importantly, his very valuable ally set) will break the game utterly. That's not hard to see even for someone who doesn't play on a daily basis.

I do watch some let's plays now and then because it's still sort of interesting.

But C'thun doesn't break the game utterly. You don't know what you are talking about. Most decks don't even use him.

[Wingflier]

Well yeah most decks don't use him because they don't have him 😂

I wouldn't agree with Managamar that he utterly breaks the game. In fact it seems balanced as far as Hearthstone mechanics go. It's just really, really stupid to deal with. And it increases the luck of the game tremendously in a game which is already hilariously luck based to the point of insanity.

 If you get the perfect Cthun setup, it's an auto win, if Cthun is the last card in your deck, it's an auto lose. Or at least it's going to be a hell of a lot harder to win.

It's one thing to be a card game, but there's no competitive card game in the world that's even remotely as luck based as Hearthstone. It's on a whole other level. Magic the Gathering seems tame in comparison. I brought up Duelyst which is extremely similar to HS in many ways but has no luck based cards at all and STILL has plenty of luck involved just in the draw.

Hearthstone just reeks of bad design. I could show you example after endless example of competitive game where one contender outplayed his opponent all game and then lost to something insane like a Doomsayer out of a Shredder or a Dr Balance out of an Unstable Portal or any other combination of nonsense the game can randomly throw at you.

Cthun only adds to this problem, if you can even call it that at this point. It also has the added benefit of being much easier to use than to counter. Because a 20/20 Avenging Wrath is pretty good in every situation, and the cards that build up to it are just as strong or stronger than regular cards. Average players aren't going to know how to handle this because it r@pes midrange. You either have to kill them quickly with an aggro deck or out control them with tons of removal and even more lategame legendaries.

[Mick]

Well yeah most decks don't use him because they don't have him 😂

Everyone has him.

[TheVampire100]

If you don't even play it, then what basis do you hold your opinion that Old Gods "killed their own game"?

Even though I don't play the game to know all the ins and outs of it, even I, as an outsider, can see how a card like C'thun (and more importantly, his very valuable ally set) will break the game utterly. That's not hard to see even for someone who doesn't play on a daily basis.

I do watch some let's plays now and then because it's still sort of interesting.

But C'thun doesn't break the game utterly. You don't know what you are talking about. Most decks don't even use him.

You mean most decks NOW don't use him. Because when I played Hearthstone when the expansion came out, EVERYONE played decks with him. And with everyone I MEAN everyone. That's the reason why I stopped playing, I was sick of seeing the same deck in every single match.

[Wingflier]

Well yeah most decks don't use him because they don't have him 😂

Everyone has him.

True.

If you don't even play it, then what basis do you hold your opinion that Old Gods "killed their own game"?

Even though I don't play the game to know all the ins and outs of it, even I, as an outsider, can see how a card like C'thun (and more importantly, his very valuable ally set) will break the game utterly. That's not hard to see even for someone who doesn't play on a daily basis.

I do watch some let's plays now and then because it's still sort of interesting.

But C'thun doesn't break the game utterly. You don't know what you are talking about. Most decks don't even use him.

You mean most decks NOW don't use him. Because when I played Hearthstone when the expansion came out, EVERYONE played decks with him. And with everyone I MAEN everyone. That's the reason why I stopped playing, i was sicvk of seening the same deck in every single match.

That seemed to be what the Forbes writer was complaining about as well.

[Mánagarmr]

Well, Hearthstone was designed to be more casual, random and fun. A pick up and go-sort of game. The fact that it has a ranking system boggles me a bit. Even smaller, more obscure games such as Shadow Era has a better balance point than Hearthstone.

[crazyroosterman]

Well, Hearthstone was designed to be more casual, random and fun. A pick up and go-sort of game. The fact that it has a ranking system boggles me a bit. Even smaller, more obscure games such as Shadow Era has a better balance point than Hearthstone.

forget the ranking system somebody tell me why hearthstone has an esports scene at all seriously are viewers just to lazy to try and learn the mechanics of something actually complex like grey goo or magic for that matter?.

[Wingflier]

It may have been designed as a casual game, but as soon as you're supporting an very lucrative and competitive e-sports side, you need to make the game somewhat balanced for that aspect of it too.

There's literally no difference between competitive and casual Hearthstone whatsoever. No reduction in the ridiculous luck mechanics, no more access to cards for both players so that they're on an even footing, no tournament legal cards like Magic has...nothing. No difference.

So either design the game in such a way that it's competitive from the start (Duelyst), or have special tournament rules that make the mechanics less retarded (Magic the Gathering).

Hearthstone is essentially Magic the Gathering from the early 1990s...being played competitively.

[crazyroosterman]

It may have been designed as a casual game, but as soon as you're supporting an very lucrative and competitive e-sports side, you need to make the game somewhat balanced for that aspect of it too.

There's literally no difference between competitive and casual Hearthstone whatsoever. No reduction in the ridiculous luck mechanics, no more access to cards for both players so that they're on an even footing, no tournament legal cards like Magic has...nothing. No difference.

So either design the game in such a way that it's competitive from the start (Duelyst), or have special tournament rules that make the mechanics less retarded (Magic the Gathering).

Hearthstone is essentially Magic the Gathering from the early 1990s...being played competitively.

aside from the spectator seeing the bother peoples hands which just makes it less interesting to watch yea pretty much some people are bizarrely try hardy about that game competitively though despite it having the depth of a paddling pool
when I get back my non shitty laptop though I'm going to be playing that rune scape card game that looks pretty sick.

[crazyroosterman]

o and for that matter don't forget the heroes of the storm esports thing(is that seriously even still going now? id be surprised if it was) that's just a dam joke and apparently people in that scene are rather up their asses amusingly enough at least compared this rather old blog thingy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTZFa9ILJZ0

[Wingflier]

Heroes of the Storm can be played competitively whatever. It's better than League of Legends at least because you only have to unlock heroes instead of heroes, and masteries, and runes, which altogether would take hundreds of hours easily. Where in HOTS you could have a competitively sized hero pool in 50 hours or less.

Of course DotA is still the best because it's all unlocked from the start, making it the only true competitive moba in my opinion, the others just have it as a tacked on feature to generate extra interest and revenue and HOTS is no exception.

Smite at least you can pay $30 for all the content so maybe I'd include that as well. But yeah, if HOTS wants to be esports, more power to them. At least the game isn't luck based.

[crazyroosterman]

for sure its easier to get into competitive than league since it doesn't have the runes nonsense (I'm not sure what you mean by masteries its been a billion years since I last played league and I don't remember anything about masteries) id still rather play it than league since it has the interesting talent system and its meta wasn't so rigid as leagues was but If i was so inclined id probably just watch dota instead since its got more complex mechanics (I really have no idea how smite is mechanically compared to its competitors)
btw the main reason I never got into dota or any of the other top down mobas was because I couldn't centre the camera in any of them sounds like a nit pick I know but I simply cant concentrate with that function to keep the camera automatically focused on my camera when I'm not looking around the map.

[TheVampire100]

Well, Hearthstone was designed to be more casual, random and fun. A pick up and go-sort of game. The fact that it has a ranking system boggles me a bit. Even smaller, more obscure games such as Shadow Era has a better balance point than Hearthstone.

forget the ranking system somebody tell me why hearthstone has an esports scene at all seriously are viewers just to lazy to try and learn the mechanics of something actually complex like grey goo or magic for that matter?.

because Blizzard creates ALL their games wit the intention of playing competitively and that since they found out that the esport scene is also very lucrative for the developers if they manage this.
Since I don't know what year every game they have released was designed around the fact to be played competiviley. Hearthstone, Diablo 3, Starcraft 2 and now Overwatch. They developed these games with this intention in mind from the beginning.

[Misery]

Well, Hearthstone was designed to be more casual, random and fun. A pick up and go-sort of game. The fact that it has a ranking system boggles me a bit. Even smaller, more obscure games such as Shadow Era has a better balance point than Hearthstone.

forget the ranking system somebody tell me why hearthstone has an esports scene at all seriously are viewers just to lazy to try and learn the mechanics of something actually complex like grey goo or magic for that matter?.

I'll give my pessimistic and unpleasant answer to that question, which is "yes".

There's the occaisional exception to the rule but for the most part a lot of gamers these days will automatically gravitate towards whatever is easiest.  Irritates me.

[Mánagarmr]

Well, Hearthstone was designed to be more casual, random and fun. A pick up and go-sort of game. The fact that it has a ranking system boggles me a bit. Even smaller, more obscure games such as Shadow Era has a better balance point than Hearthstone.

forget the ranking system somebody tell me why hearthstone has an esports scene at all seriously are viewers just to lazy to try and learn the mechanics of something actually complex like grey goo or magic for that matter?.

because Blizzard creates ALL their games wit the intention of playing competitively and that since they found out that the esport scene is also very lucrative for the developers if they manage this.
Since I don't know what year every game they have released was designed around the fact to be played competiviley. Hearthstone, Diablo 3, Starcraft 2 and now Overwatch. They developed these games with this intention in mind from the beginning.

Please tell me when World of Warcraft gets an esports scene so I can point and laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh.