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Other => Off Topic => Topic started by: zespri on October 14, 2013, 06:43:34 PM

Title: Hearthstone
Post by: zespri on October 14, 2013, 06:43:34 PM
Just got Hearthstone (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/) beta key. Installing now. Did anyone try it?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on October 14, 2013, 06:53:34 PM
Yeah. I just in today as well. Anyone want to be b.net BFFs?

I'm Mick#1457

If you send a friend request, just say you're from the Arcen forum so I know you're not a spammer or a Communist or something.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: zespri on October 15, 2013, 04:54:42 AM
I don't think it allows you saying anything when you send a friend request... At least it did not offer me this option
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: tigersfan on October 15, 2013, 05:46:42 AM
I'm still waiting for my key..... Blizz... where's my key?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on October 15, 2013, 05:50:06 AM
Yeah. Probably ties into their no chat between non friends policy, so people can't use friend requests as a way to send a "u suck" message or something to their last opponent.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Rekka on October 15, 2013, 10:33:22 AM
I'm still waiting for my key..... Blizz... where's my key?
I had to do so many giveaways to manage to get one that I lost count. I just won mine this morning and I am eagerly waiting for my key to arrive. :P
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: zespri on October 15, 2013, 05:59:01 PM
Well I played a little yesterday, and It's fairly fun. Nothing outstanding, but those who like Warcraft setting (like I do) will feel pretty comfortable. Of course I just saw the basic cards so I have no idea what kind of variety and card interaction are offered.

There are many similar games, Shadow Era in particular is not bad it just does not have blizzard behind itself =)

For those who have not seen the game:
- there are no resource cards. You get 1 max mana on the first turn and mana max increases 1 point every turn thereafter up to 10 max. All used up mana replenishes at the start of your turn.
- when to card attack each other they both do the damage. Often it leads to both cards die
- when you attack with your cards you can attack other cards or go directly after the hero.
- each hero has an "intrinsic" an ability that costs mana and allow to do something without using a card
- we see most things that we are used to in a game like this: summoning sickness, a range of abilities such as protector, disable, blitz, etc...
- and of course all of the above is getting altered by specific cards.

I can't comment on card acquisition system yet, as I have not worked it out. You get some card for your wins, and you can purchase boosters for real money in the store.

So far it's looks ok. I'll be playing a little bit more of it.

Some more info about game mechanics: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/8414831807#1
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Aklyon on October 15, 2013, 06:17:31 PM
I've watched Kripparian play it, it looks pretty solid.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on October 15, 2013, 06:26:18 PM
I've been doing a lot of practice matches to unlock the classes.

I keep trying to win with the shaman (a class I liked a lot in WoW), but man they just seem so terrible compared to the others. I mean, I try any other class blind against the AI and I win the first time, but trying the shaman over and over I can't even come close.

You gain XP even if you lose, and therefore the shaman is my most advanced, and I still can't get anywhere with it. Ugh!

EDIT: According to the forums, apparently I'm not the only one that noticed that the shaman starter deck is trash. You basically get cards that don't work well together at all. Free heals when most of what you place has 1 health. Lots of cheap spells with no extra draw powers (which basically means late gate you're just playing whatever you draw and wasting most of your mana). Zilch in terms of AoE.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Rekka on October 17, 2013, 06:15:59 AM
Did my first couple of games yesterday and I have to say it's a pretty nice game. I unlocked the 9 classes and did some games against total strangers and it was a lot of fun. I didn't delve into creating my own decks with cards I unlocked but that's planned for my next game session. For now, I play warrior (old WoW habit :P) and I've got him to level 10. ;) I don't remember my B.Net ID, I'll post it ASAP. :)
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: tigersfan on October 21, 2013, 07:00:07 PM
Finally just got my invite! :)
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on October 21, 2013, 07:09:42 PM
Sweet. Glad to see more getting in. I really can't wait for them to open the whole thing.

I'm been having a blast overall. Bought some packs too, it's nice to have a lot more options when deck building.

I'm still going through each class to work them to 10, but I'm currently leveling the mage and am finding her a ton of fun to play.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: tigersfan on October 21, 2013, 07:12:45 PM
Sweet. Glad to see more getting in. I really can't wait for them to open the whole thing.

I'm been having a blast overall. Bought some packs too, it's nice to have a lot more options when deck building.

I'm still going through each class to work them to 10, but I'm currently leveling the mage and am finding her a ton of fun to play.

Is level 10 when you get the full base deck for each class?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on October 21, 2013, 07:29:05 PM
It's when you get the full set of basic cards. Anything above that must be earned in packs.

Decks built only from basic cards can be very solid though, so it's not "pay to win" as some claim. Of course the *types* of decks you can build from only basic cards will be limited.

The game uses a matchmaking system, which seems to do a pretty good job of making it so you'll win about half your games.

I don't know how much you know about card games, so please excuse me if this sounds patronizing, but a good tip is to make sure you have a fair amount of draw power in your deck (cards like the gnome engineer and gnome alchemist are basic cards that do this). If you reach a point where you are pretty much only able to play the card you draw from the top of your deck every turn, you're pretty much relying on luck and/or the horribleness of your opponent at that point. Following that point of logic, you don't really want to just throw out every card you can afford each turn either. As a simple example, you don't want to throw out a high attack unit that will simply be killed by your opponent before you can actually use it. You might want to match it with a minion that can taunt, or give it a buff or something.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: tigersfan on October 21, 2013, 07:32:08 PM
It's when you get the full set of basic cards. Anything above that must be earned in packs.

Decks built only from basic cards can be very solid though, so it's not "pay to win" as some claim. Of course the *types* of decks you can build from only basic cards will be limited.

The game uses a matchmaking system, which seems to do a pretty good job of making it so you'll win about half your games.

I don't know how much you know about card games, so please excuse me if this sounds patronizing, but a good tip is to make sure you have a fair amount of draw power in your deck (cards like the gnome engineer and gnome alchemist are basic cards that do this). If you reach a point where you are pretty much only able to play the card you draw from the top of your deck every turn, you're pretty much relying on luck and/or the horribleness of your opponent at that point. Following that point of logic, you don't really want to just throw out every card you can afford each turn either. As a simple example, you don't want to throw out a high attack unit that will simply be killed by your opponent before you can actually use it. You might want to match it with a minion that can taunt, or give it a buff or something.

Thanks.

I know some about card games. I play Scrolls and Duel of Champions a fair bit (or, at least have been lately).

Now... to wait for the HS download to finish. :)
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Rekka on October 22, 2013, 03:45:40 AM
The arena mode is really fun too (they just add something quite similar to Scrolls yesterday). You pick your class from 3 and then, you construct your deck by choosing each of the 30 cards from 3 random cards (corresponding to neutrals or your class cards). It costs 150 gold afterwards but the first one is free so you can try it. I advise you to play a little bit before entering the arena because you need to know the cards. But the rewards, if you can manage to win several times, are really good. ;)

I got the mage and the warrior to level 10 and working to get the Warlock there now. :D
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: tigersfan on October 22, 2013, 07:43:51 AM
Nice. I leveled up my mage to 10 and won my first and only (so far) ranked game. :)

I'm definitely going to play some arena at some point, but not quite yet. Same with Judgement in Scrolls.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: zespri on November 13, 2013, 08:07:21 PM
That's weird. I just got another invitation for beta test on the same email address.... The email looks legit. Must be software errors!
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Rekka on November 14, 2013, 03:49:13 AM
Yep you're not the only one I heard who get beta invites despite being already in the beta. Weird when you know how many people wants to get in and don't have invites... :P
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on November 14, 2013, 07:32:56 AM
If you get a second beta key, you can give it to a friend. The keys they send in the e-mail are not attached to your account specifically.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Cyborg on November 14, 2013, 07:22:06 PM
I just got into this. So far I'm not having fun. It feels like one of those pay-to-win card games. Even when I click on match against someone of my skill level (all I have is the initial hero and the default deck), it matches me up against someone fully loaded. I don't feel like my personal skill level or knowledge of games is of any value. The best thing I can do would be to play a lot of games and pay to win in the arena so I could unlock yet more cards. Presumably, to bully somebody with worse cards.


It's just not fun.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: tigersfan on November 15, 2013, 07:55:09 AM
I just got into this. So far I'm not having fun. It feels like one of those pay-to-win card games. Even when I click on match against someone of my skill level (all I have is the initial hero and the default deck), it matches me up against someone fully loaded. I don't feel like my personal skill level or knowledge of games is of any value. The best thing I can do would be to play a lot of games and pay to win in the arena so I could unlock yet more cards. Presumably, to bully somebody with worse cards.


It's just not fun.

All card games, with the possibile exception of Scrolls, have an element of pay-to-win. It's just the nature of the game. That said, Blizzard has said that 44% (read, nearly half) of players on the top tier have not paid one cent. It's absolutely possible to compete in Hearthstone without paying. It takes some work/grinding, but it can be done.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on November 15, 2013, 08:15:53 AM
You can make a very competitive deck with only the basic cards. You don't want to use the pre-made decks, they are trash.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Aklyon on November 15, 2013, 08:47:09 AM
You can make a very competitive deck with only the basic cards. You don't want to use the pre-made decks, they are trash.
This is probably the third place I've heard this. Whats the point of the premades then?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Cyborg on November 15, 2013, 08:53:02 AM
I just got into this. So far I'm not having fun. It feels like one of those pay-to-win card games. Even when I click on match against someone of my skill level (all I have is the initial hero and the default deck), it matches me up against someone fully loaded. I don't feel like my personal skill level or knowledge of games is of any value. The best thing I can do would be to play a lot of games and pay to win in the arena so I could unlock yet more cards. Presumably, to bully somebody with worse cards.


It's just not fun.

All card games, with the possibile exception of Scrolls, have an element of pay-to-win. It's just the nature of the game. That said, Blizzard has said that 44% (read, nearly half) of players on the top tier have not paid one cent. It's absolutely possible to compete in Hearthstone without paying. It takes some work/grinding, but it can be done.

Grinding isn't fun, either. I guess this game isn't for me.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: tigersfan on November 15, 2013, 09:00:55 AM
You can make a very competitive deck with only the basic cards. You don't want to use the pre-made decks, they are trash.
This is probably the third place I've heard this. Whats the point of the premades then?

To give you something to practice with while you earn the other basic cards.

That's pretty standard faire with online CCGs. They don't want you to have too good of a deck to start, since improving your decks and getting more/better cards is a large part of the draw for many folks who play them.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: tigersfan on November 15, 2013, 09:02:10 AM
Grinding isn't fun, either. I guess this game isn't for me.

Yeah, honestly, if you aren't finding the first few games fun, it's probably not for you. The cards you get certainly get better, but, ultimately, the game doesn't change that much as you progress.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on November 15, 2013, 10:27:34 AM
Am I the only one here who has been so completely and utterly disillusioned by Blizzard and their business practices that hearing about a new WoW card game just seems like a huge profit-driven venture for suckers?

I've already got all my WoW friends raving about it and I'm facepalming.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: tigersfan on November 15, 2013, 10:52:57 AM
Am I the only one here who has been so completely and utterly disillusioned by Blizzard and their business practices that hearing about a new WoW card game just seems like a huge profit-driven venture for suckers?

I've already got all my WoW friends raving about it and I'm facepalming.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Blizzard. But, I AM a fan of CCGs. My feeling is, if they are going to continue to let me play for free, I see no reason to not play. :)
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: zespri on November 15, 2013, 02:22:26 PM
Am I the only one here who has been so completely and utterly disillusioned by Blizzard and their business practices that hearing about a new WoW card game just seems like a huge profit-driven venture for suckers?

I've already got all my WoW friends raving about it and I'm facepalming.
Well all businesses are profit driven, that's the definition of the word.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on November 15, 2013, 03:36:45 PM
Am I the only one here who has been so completely and utterly disillusioned by Blizzard and their business practices that hearing about a new WoW card game just seems like a huge profit-driven venture for suckers?

I've already got all my WoW friends raving about it and I'm facepalming.
Well all businesses are profit driven, that's the definition of the word.
Be careful not to commit the all-or-nothing fallacy.

All businesses are profit-driven, but not all businesses will resort to antics which screw over their playerbase, or give people who pay more power, just to make some extra money.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Aklyon on November 15, 2013, 06:35:07 PM
This really reminds me of just how many card games there are recently. Magic (not sure if the digital version has mp, haven't played it), Shadow Era (which I got an email about an expansion soonish), Scrolls, Hearthstone, probably another one I miseed.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: zespri on November 15, 2013, 09:26:03 PM
This really reminds me of just how many card games there are recently. Magic (not sure if the digital version has mp, haven't played it), Shadow Era (which I got an email about an expansion soonish), Scrolls, Hearthstone, probably another one I miseed.
Shadow Era is very good imho. I need to try scrolls.  I've heard of it pre release but the it somehow fell off my radar. Magic though has never been a game for me.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: tigersfan on November 16, 2013, 07:32:26 AM
This really reminds me of just how many card games there are recently. Magic (not sure if the digital version has mp, haven't played it), Shadow Era (which I got an email about an expansion soonish), Scrolls, Hearthstone, probably another one I miseed.

Might and Magic Duels of Champions, Sol Forge, Hex (which is in closed beta right now, but out soon)

So, at least three you missed. :)
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on November 21, 2013, 03:05:52 PM
Hearthstone is the first card game since Shadow Era that actually interests me, and I'm saying that as someone who pretty much has a pet hatred against ActiBlizzard and everything they vomit out of their money-printing factory.  ;)
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on December 24, 2013, 03:51:35 PM
So, aside from "happy xmas" and all that, I play Hearthstone as well..... of course, without paying a single cent ;p

Arena is 100% fair (no bought cards etc) and gets you MAJOR rewards even with just 1 win, so your goal should always be to go for Arena (150 gold) If you want to full 150 gold back, you gotta win 7 times though, but normally you get a card pack, gold, and dust from the first win (which is more important than gold, as you can craft the cards you *need* to have a good deck in normal ranked play ;p)

Secondly, you want to first get all the Achievement stuff. Each of em are worth 100 gold...
Thirdly, dailies.. you can stack up to 3 of them, and you should do that if you are not feeling like grinding...  also you can "cancel and reroll" a daily you got once per day. With 3 stacked dailies, and a few wins in unranked you will have those 150 gold for Arena, which is the main drive of the game for me. Arena is insanely fun ;)

So basically, this game is not pay to win. The only thing money defines here is how much you can play Arena.

In ranked mode decks are very predictable, in Arena they aren't. The 2 limit for a card is not active in Arena, so you can have 5 of one of card, if you draw them in the random draw that is ;)

Basically, Hearthstone is my "an hour a day" fun game atm. Even though it's from Blizzard... the micro payment is nearly irrelevant. And unlike MTG you can craft cards here, which is a HUGE boon to compliment a deck in unranked/ranked or create new tactics.

So, this game is better than MTG, and has none of it's absurd randomness. You can redraw the first draw (And if you don't get a 1/2 card out of 4 in the first draw, your deck is badly balanced)

Rare thing to hear from me so.. this is fun.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on January 05, 2014, 09:13:18 AM
So, aside from "happy xmas" and all that, I play Hearthstone as well..... of course, without paying a single cent ;p

Arena is 100% fair (no bought cards etc) and gets you MAJOR rewards even with just 1 win, so your goal should always be to go for Arena (150 gold) If you want to full 150 gold back, you gotta win 7 times though, but normally you get a card pack, gold, and dust from the first win (which is more important than gold, as you can craft the cards you *need* to have a good deck in normal ranked play ;p)

Secondly, you want to first get all the Achievement stuff. Each of em are worth 100 gold...
Thirdly, dailies.. you can stack up to 3 of them, and you should do that if you are not feeling like grinding...  also you can "cancel and reroll" a daily you got once per day. With 3 stacked dailies, and a few wins in unranked you will have those 150 gold for Arena, which is the main drive of the game for me. Arena is insanely fun ;)

So basically, this game is not pay to win. The only thing money defines here is how much you can play Arena.

In ranked mode decks are very predictable, in Arena they aren't. The 2 limit for a card is not active in Arena, so you can have 5 of one of card, if you draw them in the random draw that is ;)

Basically, Hearthstone is my "an hour a day" fun game atm. Even though it's from Blizzard... the micro payment is nearly irrelevant. And unlike MTG you can craft cards here, which is a HUGE boon to compliment a deck in unranked/ranked or create new tactics.

So, this game is better than MTG, and has none of it's absurd randomness. You can redraw the first draw (And if you don't get a 1/2 card out of 4 in the first draw, your deck is badly balanced)

Rare thing to hear from me so.. this is fun.


I gotta say, I dont understand the bit about less randomness VS Magic.... if anything, it's about the same.  It's still a card game, so your draws each turn are random, you still have the random opening hand, and yes, you can redraw the opening hand in Magic, the difference being that in Magic you redraw the entire hand minus one card, but you also have a larger starting hand in that one and can actually redraw more than once if need be.... lessee.... Hearthstone has actual card effects that have randomness within them, which as far as I know is pretty much non-existent in Magic, or at least has been nonexistent in all the years Iv'e been into it....  One way or another randomness is a huge part of TCGs as a whole, and constructing a deck in such a way as to reduce the effects of that randomness is always part of the challenge.   In all honesty, I personally find that this game has MORE randomness than Magic most of the time.  Random effects on cards themselves just bug the hell outta me, always have, always will.  When I'm looking at cards to add to a deck, I want to know what that card WILL do and what options I WILL have with it when I use it.... I dont want to know just what it MIGHT do.  There's a huge difference there.

As for Arena mode, yes, it's less expensive than something like a sealed deck tournament (or whatever) in Magic..... buuuuut, in one of those, you KEEP the cards you get out of the packs that you use in the tournament. And of course there are assorted variations of that theme, as well as other tournament types.  In Arena, rewards are comparatively small and a bad run can leave you with not much at all.  Winning 7 games is necessary to recoup the cost required for entry.  If the player isnt doing that regularly, they'll either need to farm gold in constructed, or pay money.   And on the note of randomness, Arena itself has a monstrous amount of it (just like any TCG event of this sort), which is pretty much what the mode is designed around.



Now that's not to say that Hearthstone isnt good, because it is.  But as a longtime fan of M:TG, I had to say something there, heh.   

While Magic still remains my favorite game of this type, I've been heartily enjoying Hearthstone and finding it quite great myself.  .....particularly on nights when my dying modem is being an ass, as a bit of lag isnt going to wreck a match in a card game!  But overall, it's very fun.   I love the mechanics and how everything works, building decks for normal mode is fun, Arena is good too.... and for now at least, it's not terribly unbalanced, though there's a few issues in there.

I personally will end up playing a probably-equal combination of constructed and Arena.   One problem I have with the game though:  The absolutely dirt-slow pace of earning gold to buy packs with, combined with the absolute lack of any form of trading whatsoever.... this can make it really damn annoying to get cards that you want, for constructed.   Yeah, there's the crafting, but it's screwy and making cards often takes about a bazillion Dust, while disenchanting them often gives you like .000000000001 Dust.  Not fond of the crafting bit.   And I'm not exactly the patient sort.  So if I want to have more cards sometime this millennium, I do have to shell out some cash.

.....which for me isnt even a remote problem, but still, for those wanting to play constructed but on a tough budget, their card collection is going to grow VERY SLOWLY. 


One way or another though, overall this game was totally worth the very aggravating wait for a beta invite.  Been playing it for, hmm, 3 weeks now I think?  Much to learn yet, but it's been a blast so far, and I like the class system.  I love TCGs as a whole, and this is a darned good one. 
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on January 06, 2014, 10:10:25 AM
I'd like more practice partners. Anyone want to become Battle.net BFFs so we can duel and discuss card strategies? I find the game much more enjoyable when I can interact with the other player and play more than one match.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: tigersfan on January 06, 2014, 01:15:25 PM
I'd like more practice partners. Anyone want to become Battle.net BFFs so we can duel and discuss card strategies? I find the game much more enjoyable when I can interact with the other player and play more than one match.

Sure, I don't play a whole lot these days (nor do I have a whole lot of cards), but, send me a PM with your info and I'll send you a freind request next time I'm on.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on January 07, 2014, 08:01:25 PM
Aye, same here, for the most part.  I'm on pretty frequently, since games like this hold my attention well, but I'm still definitely new to the game and only have so many cards, though I did throw some money at it.

I'm generally always up for a match but I'm only on during the night since that's when I'm actually awake.  I'm easiest to get ahold of via Steam actually. 
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: madcow on January 22, 2014, 09:19:42 AM
Since it's open beta now I gave this a try, DLed it and played a few practice games.  It was more fun than I expected it to be. I love board games, but deck building games (both magic and dominion styled) I've always been meh about.  So think I'll likely play this for a little while, but building deck aspect won't really hold me into this - heh, which is kind of the appeal most people have in these games.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on January 26, 2014, 09:06:26 AM
Since it's open beta now I gave this a try, DLed it and played a few practice games.  It was more fun than I expected it to be. I love board games, but deck building games (both magic and dominion styled) I've always been meh about.  So think I'll likely play this for a little while, but building deck aspect won't really hold me into this - heh, which is kind of the appeal most people have in these games.

That depends on how you look at it.

One approach is to build up a bit of a collection, and then get most of your actual deck designs from others online, instead of coming up with it yourself.  When you do this, you then focus only on the actual in-match strategy/tactics/something.  Which is interesting enough in it's own right... as with any TCG, there's no way to know what order your cards are going to come in, so you have to constantly adapt and strategize based on what you get.  Which also kinda lowers the need to constantly build decks.... one deck built can be used a great many times without you really getting bored, and instead of building new ones you can always just make minor tweaks if you see the need.

I personally like the deckbuilding aspect, but I'm much better at the in-match bit (and I also have so little patience that it's probably in the negatives), so I tend to sorta smash random cards together in no particular order (well, obviously not TOTALLY random) and then just start fighting with it immediately, making constant tweaks or even major changes after each match until I've "built" a deck I'm satisfied with.  This approach has always served me well in M:TG, and it's doing the same in Hearthstone so far.

If you dont like deckbuilding though, I'd advise not playing Arena mode, because that mode is entirely ABOUT deckbuilding. Not quite in the same way though.... building an Arena deck typically takes much less time than building a normal one due to the very different way that Arena decks are constructed.

I still aint messed with that mode myself yet.... it requires more knowledge than I have, but it sounds like great fun to me.


Overall, still playing this alot, loving it that much more each time.  Gots me a super-defensive Paladin deck (which had a 25-turn match at one point that caused my opponent to die from card loss damage), and a super-aggressive Warrior deck that leads to many chances to say "Hahaha NOPE" when my opponent plays a minion.  Still have plenty to learn yet, and cant wait until they start going with making new cards for the game.  Always exciting whenever a new expansion comes out for a TCG.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: madcow on January 26, 2014, 12:11:16 PM
I've actually played around with it some and find the game both at once infuriating and fun to varying degrees and amounts.

I've actually found arena mode to be more enjoyable than straight up battle mode because A) getting the cards for regular mode seems tedious and B) its very much a guided process, only 3 cards to pick from instead of your entire collection.

The narrowed down choices (and equal footing in selections) makes building a deck for arena more enjoyable than the other modes I've found.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: fanneyjack on April 15, 2014, 06:05:35 AM
the most gayiest game i ever seen?..
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on April 15, 2014, 07:06:37 AM
I've actually played around with it some and find the game both at once infuriating and fun to varying degrees and amounts.

I've actually found arena mode to be more enjoyable than straight up battle mode because A) getting the cards for regular mode seems tedious and B) its very much a guided process, only 3 cards to pick from instead of your entire collection.

The narrowed down choices (and equal footing in selections) makes building a deck for arena more enjoyable than the other modes I've found.


Yeah, that's the one issue with it, is that it takes a really absurd amount of time to build up a collection if you're not using actual money.

I just throw cash at it, I have no patience for the slow earning.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Aklyon on April 15, 2014, 12:27:40 PM
the most gayiest game i ever seen?..
Thats not a descriptor unless you're a youtube comment.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on April 15, 2014, 01:49:19 PM
the most gayiest game i ever seen?..
Thats not a descriptor unless you're a youtube comment.
Dude where is the 'like' button?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: keith.lamothe on April 15, 2014, 02:24:03 PM
Dude where is the 'like' button?
Removed in the 2.x days.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on April 16, 2014, 01:34:42 AM
the most gayiest game i ever seen?..
Thats not a descriptor unless you're a youtube comment.
Dude where is the 'like' button?

Buried in glitches, no doubt.

Youtube does seem to be made of them.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on April 16, 2014, 09:56:16 AM
Perhaps it's because I got Age of Wonders 3, FTL: Advanced Edition and Dark Souls pretty much at the same time, but I found I grew tired of Hearthstone really quickly. It did not hold my interest for very long.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on April 23, 2014, 10:02:03 PM
Perhaps it's because I got Age of Wonders 3, FTL: Advanced Edition and Dark Souls pretty much at the same time, but I found I grew tired of Hearthstone really quickly. It did not hold my interest for very long.

....yeah, those 3 might possibly maybe be a distraction sort of from other games :p


Though, the game isnt without it's problems either.  I like it, but I'd like it even more if it had a larger card pool.  The game does lend itself to stale decks in constructed.

And while there's an expansion coming, it's focused around..... single-player adventure.  Insert obligatory gif for an Epic Headdesk of the Gods here.  And this expansion has a whole 30 cards.  30!  Just... what... argh.  Clearly, more AI battles are what are truly need in this CCG.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on April 24, 2014, 07:37:48 AM
I think the adventure mode will be a fun distraction. I do agree that the games biggest weakness at the moment is the small card pool. There just isn't that much variety you can see in the decks right now, so a lot of battles feel the same, and it's rare to be surprised anymore. 30 cards isn't too bad if what they add shakes up the meta a lot. Sometimes a new card can completely change the value of old cards, so I'm hoping that the new set will synergize well with the less used cards already in the game.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Aklyon on April 24, 2014, 11:31:42 AM
Only 30?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on April 27, 2014, 05:40:39 AM
I think the adventure mode will be a fun distraction. I do agree that the games biggest weakness at the moment is the small card pool. There just isn't that much variety you can see in the decks right now, so a lot of battles feel the same, and it's rare to be surprised anymore. 30 cards isn't too bad if what they add shakes up the meta a lot. Sometimes a new card can completely change the value of old cards, so I'm hoping that the new set will synergize well with the less used cards already in the game.

Something tells me though that a number of those new cards will soon be declared "bad" and never used by anyone.  Which is my other problem with the game.  You're gonna have some bad cards in any TCG.... though some of them in this one are SO bad that I really dont get why they dont get altered, since they're literally wasted space/effort.... but it's so much worse when you have such a small card pool, because it means that the effective number of cards is usually quite a bit lower than it seems.  If you've got a 200 card pool, but 40 of them are terrible and never used, then what you've REALLY got is a 160 card pool. 

It really isnt that big of a deal with many TCGs, where expansions will put out quite a number of cards, but this one.... feh.

As for the single-player bit, I dont think it'll be BAD, but a "play it once and then ignore it forever" sort of thing, in a game that's absolutely and totally about multiplayer, is to me very misplaced development time.   Granted, I know Blizzard can be freaking weird about some things, but still.  This seems a bit too derpy, really.  Doesnt help that it is something that takes them AWHILE to make, and then only farts out 30 cards.   Bah.

As it is, I've no real interest in the blasted thing myself.  If it's really the only way to get those few new cards, I'll go through it, but frankly I'd rather not.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on May 10, 2014, 02:53:01 PM
Captain's Parrot, anyone? :D
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Aklyon on May 10, 2014, 08:13:12 PM
In semi-related news, the guys making shadow era are updating their battle screen. Reminded me a bit of the hearthstone one from the look of it, but with less rounded edges and sparklies.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on May 12, 2014, 01:01:17 PM
To be honest, I think these games would be well advised to put round edges and sparklies in... you ever seen MTG planeswalkers 2013 ? Looks and feels like a flash game. High damage attacks have no beef and the game is like playing a spreadsheet with clipart.

But aside that, I think Hearthstone is a pretty flawed card game all around. The problem with the game is that it cloned MTG cards nearly 1:1 but didn't understand that these cards were only not always imbalanced because you could have multiple phases where you could dispel effects or destroy creatures with evil evil perks.

Hearthstone also has CLEAR rule issues. No hex-protection , shroud and taunt canceling each other by rules, but not by applied game mechanics. (Taunt that is not attackable is not a taunt) etc. pp...

It's good for casual fun, but a good card game it isn't imo ;P
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on May 12, 2014, 07:02:07 PM
I disagree.  Hearthstone's rules are extremely clear.  There's not been even one time where I'd go to use an effect, and NOT know about some sort of conflict or something.  Taunt + stealth?  Done that frequently with a rogue deck, knew what'd happen with it before I did it.   If something STARTS with taunt & stealth, that too makes sense.  You then have a minion that can taunt for you when ready, but is first available to get in an attack of it's own, since the stealth will keep it on the board for one turn.... you cant directly blast or hex/morph/whatever something that's stealthed.  Which is the "hex-protection" that you say isnt there, if I understood you correctly.  Stealth is the best defense against the transformation cards.  There are other ways to deal with them as well, but that's the simplest. 

Also.... you can dispel effects and such.... there are cards that exist exactly for this purpose. That's what "silence" is for. Hell, there's one minion (Ancient Watcher) that is a very powerful one for a very low cost, BUT, it essentially starts out locked down.... it cannot attack.  You *have* to cancel the effect on it to use it offensively.  It's a frequently used card, too, either by putting it out and theen having another minion cancel it's text, or by having another minion give it taunt (and taunt is another thing that can be cancelled, for that matter).  Things like buffs or debuffs or other status changes are cancelled by this also. 

The only problem with the card texts/whatever is that occaisionally you get something like Ysera, which has you "draw a dream card" but doesnt tell you what in the hell the dream cards are.  Any card that gives "special" cards has this issue.

Other than that.... I've got no issues with the game mechanics.   Balance issues?  Oh yes, indeed.  But only because of the low card pool.  And MT:G (and no, I DONT mean the Planeswalkers games, which I pretend dont exist.  I mean the actual card game) has very, very often had it's own balance issues, and will continue to have them as new expansions are introduced, and old ones cycle out.  They are nearly unavoidable in a TCG. 

As someone who has been playing M:TG since Ice Age (omigod that set is soooooooo old now), I surely aint seen another TCG yet that can outdo it, but...  Hearthstone?  No, it dont equal M:TG, but I've still found it to be a very good game nonetheless.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on May 13, 2014, 05:21:50 AM
Well to me balance issues are the result of iffy game mechanics and rules.... what else would they be, really? ;P You don't make rules for a card game if the card pool is too small to accommodate them. Sadly that's exactly what Blizzard did. Low card pool and very hard card restrictions for counters and you end up with an imbalanced card game.

And while MTG has it's share of balance problems, at least you can have a counter to mostly any balance issue in your deck and with the block mechanic, you can keep creatures alive longer... ;p Trading creatures isn't even possible in MTG unless you specifically allow it to happen as defender (well, or the attacker choses to cast spells ,p)

Or basically.. i like MTG more than Hearthstone... if only there'd be a game like Hearthstone with the full range of cards from MTG and with no pay to win nonsense (pure random unlocks or fully available library)
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: zespri on May 14, 2014, 02:05:31 AM
Everybody knows that MTG is unbalanced as hell - each season there are only 3-4 viable decks. What keeps it interesting is new sets/mechanics that come out regularly, and they are not trivial, so when players solved the current set the next is ready.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on May 14, 2014, 04:46:47 PM
Everybody knows that MTG is unbalanced as hell - each season there are only 3-4 viable decks. What keeps it interesting is new sets/mechanics that come out regularly, and they are not trivial, so when players solved the current set the next is ready.

Ehm, where I live you can play MTG with "random draw" decks. You choose color/colors, get 25 (depending on choice randomized) lands, and you get to draw from the entire pool of cards from each color choice randomly. Which is, let me put it this way, not inherently more balanced, but a hell of a lot more fun ;p My appreciation of MTG comes purely from that, I never bought a single MTG card pack in my life. And I would not ever compete in leagues... sadly Hearthstone doesn't give you a real choice. Arena is way too random as Hearthstone doesn't have mana colors and so you can actually end up with 0 synergies.

I don't know anyone who'd be crazy enough to actually compete with own deck in a league. I mean, the stuff going on in leagues of MTG puts Hearthstone to shame (mainly because MTG has some insane card mechanics in later card packs ,p). And mainly because there are no card restrictions which in itself can be very very unbalancing ;p

MTG is still the better card game. Especially when you don't play it in a league.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on May 15, 2014, 06:46:29 AM
Oh, M:TG isnt as well balanced as all of that.

I've been into it for a LONG time, and indeed, I have a great many cards.  Recent sets, going all the way back to before Ice Age, which is downright ancient by this point.

Much like Hearthstone, early on MTG was an explosion of balance problems and busted mechanics.  Particularly before the "rules cleanup" that happened.... right around 6th edition?  Or was it 5th?  Heck if I remember.  It was a long while ago.  Let's just say that the early versions of MTG made the current version of Hearthstone look PERFECTLY balanced. 

And all of this is regardless of the match type being done.  I'll do "randomized cards" type formats every now and then, but typically I prefer constructing my own deck. 

As for Hearthstone's arena.... no, it's not overly random.  If it was, it would be impossible for the high ranking players to achieve the crazy consistency that they do.  The difference is simple:  They really know what they're doing.  Even I can see that Arena is pretty well done for a format like that, though I've also been a CCG fan for a bazillion years now, and have played way more than just Magic.  When I mess with Arena myself, it's rare that I can say "Well, it's TOTALLY just the RNG's fault", because as a rule, that's simply not true.   As with any CCG though, the player's own mistakes are very, very often seen as events ordained by the Random Number Gods, rather than the player's own mistakes or lack of planning/strategy/knowledge.  It's the easiest trap for players to fall into, and slows their advancement.  I can see things like this when watching others play this mode as well; analysis and recognition of ridiculously complex patterns is one of my core skills, both in gaming and out of it. 

All of this is one of the reasons why I consider it fairly well balanced, as far as it's limited card pool will go anyway.  For such a limited pool though, they did pretty darn good.


But, of course, they still really need to expand upon it.  Not do this silly single-player adventure stuff, argh.

I think when they do a PROPER expansion for the game, it'll be well worth the wait, but.... we shouldnt HAVE to wait that long in the first place, because that's what the FIRST expansion should be.  Bah. 
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on May 15, 2014, 07:33:54 AM
Yeah that's very true ;) But it's Blizzard.. 1 tiny expansion every 2 years is how they roll....
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on May 15, 2014, 07:41:50 AM
Aye, indeed it is.

Of course, this time I dont think they'll have a choice.  You cant keep players buying cards if there are no cards to buy.  And getting someone with a full collection to pay for Arena entry wont work either, because suddenly they need no gold for cards, and can use all of it just to play that mode if they want. Which means they wont see much reason to dump real cash on it.


I'm hoping that Blizzard is bright enough to understand all of this.... I guess time will tell.

Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: zespri on May 15, 2014, 03:23:52 PM
If it was, it would be impossible for the high ranking players to achieve the crazy consistency that they do.  The difference is simple:  They really know what they're doing. 
That's an interesting point. Ever heard of Sirlin with his Yomi. Yomi has a small fan following, but many people feel it's too random. As in if two people with a big skill gap between them play 10 games the less skilled player will still win one ore two games just because of the luck factor. In chess, for example, that would not be possible and I don't believe that could ever be the case for MTG/hearthstone either.  Still, the argument that you gave about is exactly the argument the fans of the game use to tramp the "luck" is too powerful argument. But unless it's a game where there is no player choice or there is very little player choice this argument can be applied. Right? To almost *any* game. No matter how bad ruleset is or how bad the balance is the player who knows what he is doing will be consistently beating those who don't.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: zespri on May 15, 2014, 06:44:04 PM
And while we are on topic of Yomi - it's been released for iPad https://itunes.apple.com/nz/app/yomi/id594630025?mt=8 I like that you get the half of everything for 13 dollars and the rest for another 13, not like the crazy subscription scheme with their in-browser implementation. Of course it all works cross-platform in the sense that you can play against those, who are still using the web site. Meta implementation (the lobby, the logging process, game creation, etc) is a bit clunky, but the game itself is implemented rather well.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on July 27, 2014, 10:48:53 PM
So to bring this up again.. oh my god what have I done..

Let's just say... i found http://www.slightlymagic.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=109

And also my ancient (haha) complete pack of Magic 2014 - Duels of Planewalkers .. I am pretty happy just having 120 card decks of varying levels of "INSANE" and playing randomly against them with my own crafted (from 5000~ cards) decks.

I know 2013 had some neat game-modes too, and there are mods for that too, but Magic 2014 at least is the magic I absolutely adore. With 3rd party deck-builder and all that new cards (you have to ehm, crack the game though, as you can't have steam interfering in your not-legitimate-custom-game-files or else everything goes bakoom).

Man, I have sunk so much time into this I find Hearthstone to be a complete joke! What can the small card pool in HS even do, when I can make an entire deck out of LANDS and CURSES, curses by the way, are awesome.

Or how about a CAT deck with a focus on gaining life, and a way to win the game without ever dealing a single damage point to the enemy? (By gaining 40 HP and dropping a specific card?) So much variations possible, and better still, the AI is extremely masochistic in 2014. If it sees your strategy it will not dawdle with a counter (above mentioned cat lifegain counter on life-gain and life on being hit via artifacts) was countered by random AI deck (green) as it dropped a creature that gained a +1+1 counter for each life-gain right when my stacked effects returned about 30 life to me, it was GG (in 2 headed giant ,p)

so basically, HS? Hah.. I never even considered you can actually mod the Magic 2014 games with new cards, new decks, new art, and NEW STUFF. And then create your own custom decks, and then PLAY AGAINST THEM ;P This is everything I eve wanted from a card game.. wee ;P
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on July 28, 2014, 07:19:20 AM
Feh.

I'm actually about to jump back into MTG myself.... but not with that 2014 Duels of the Thingy one.   I have a very old (as in, from beta, a billion years ago; I have *alot* of cards) account with MTG:Online (a totally different thing that's been around for some unholy amount of time) and will use that.   The 2014 game and it's predecessors are too.... limited.   I dont count modding, as with most games I very rarely care enough to want to bother with that sort of thing; only Minecraft is the exception.  ......that and I already have 10 billionty cards in the other one, am used to it, and it's hyper easy to get a match going in any mode/format, so.... yeah.   I'll stick to what I know.

As it is I only hadnt played in so long because of it being so expensive (exact same prices as the physical card game, which as you know can be a pricey hobby)..... until I very recently realized the damn silly amount I spend each month buying who knows what.  I aint exactly having money issues here, so I figure, I'll jump on back in.  I just have to get my old account info, which is annoying, I'll do that tomorrow or so.

I'd love to just play the physical version, but..... hah.  Yeah, like THAT is happening.  In an area that's too middle-of-nowhere for anyone to even know what a damn bookstore is, there sure as bloody hell arent any places to play MTG, or any other card game, or board game, or.... yeah.  Aint happening. 

Anyway, I look forward to it.


My interest in Hearthstone hasnt faded, BUT, I think whoever is making the decisions on the game is a damn idiot.  Like any TCG it NEEDS a constant influx of new stuff.  So what do we get?   .....singleplayer stuff.   And a whole 30 cards.  .......yay?

I swear, Blizzard Time is possibly even worse than Valve Time. 

Damn stupid idiots.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on July 28, 2014, 09:37:26 AM
You my have a point in MTG 2014 being limited, but I'd rather take 5000 card pool free over 5$ for a booster pack ;) Still not trying to convince you to get it, I am just saying that you can extend MTG 2014 limitations (which it does have pre-modding) to encompass nearly a complete set of MTG cards and mechanics. And because you decide what decks you allow and the AI is more than skilled with each card it allows for endless re-playability (something online MTG does not have, as you know, higher ranks are always the same boring deck configs).

And I wanted to duplicate my lifegain deck in MTG Online i'd pay what, 500$ ? ;) Heck probably more as drawing in boosters or trading this  -> http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=felidar+sovereign likely involves praying to dark gods and sacrificing kittens.

Anyhow, as you say.. HS could be the best TGC if they'd expand it properly, talking at least 100 cards per expansion...  When you compare it to MTG's card pool it's just not even funny ;/
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on July 28, 2014, 10:41:07 AM
Actually the trading and such in MGO is pretty easy to deal with.   I can remember very, very few times where I couldnt get whatever the heck it was I was looking for.

There exists an extreme number of what I always called "bot shops".   Essentially, prices are set for a shop, for every conceivable card (I assume there must be some giant database of doom somewhere that keeps track of this, that all these things must use), and you can go in, browse as you want, and typically find what you want.   The costs are generally equal to the card's actual value:  If you're looking at a rare card that might be, say, $15 to buy IRL, chances are it's about 15 in there too.   Though that's just an arbitrary number I pulled outta who knows where.  Very few cards ever go THAT high (that'd have to be REALLY freaking rare), though you likely already have a decent idea as to general pricing and such.

Either you can trade cards directly to it, so long as they add up to the value of whatever you're after (be it a single card, or a bunch that you're after at once), or you can pay with "event passes", which, aside from being used for events/tournaments (duh), are also used as currency, since they cost exactly $1.  With many of these things you can also "sell" unwanted cards for event thingies.  The things also couldnt care less most of the time if you're trying to trade for some uber-rare card from an alternate reality by throwing a big damn pile of commons and some uncommons at it, so long as it adds up.   


So that's basically how that works in that game.... as with any form of trading, it can be time consuming, as chances are during deck building there's multiple things you want, so of course you have to go through your own collection and see what can be parted with, and go look and see how much the thing you want is going for, and so on.....   The good thing is that most of the "shops" tend to have 8 quazillion cards, so most things are easy to find.

And, of course, there's normal trading as well, though as always for me I tend to avoid doing that if it's not with friends and such.  Some players of course will totally prefer this type, which I can understand.   But me, I'm impatient and when I want something, I want it RIGHT THE HECK NOW, so I just use the shop things. 


As for MTGO having dull decks to fight.... I've found that's not the case.  This isnt Hearthstone, where there's like, TWO damn modes, which is one of my few problems with that.   Every conceivable format that has ever existed for Magic matches in general exists in the online version, and i've found that it's usually very easy to find opponents for pretty much everything.   As much as I love the game, and TCGs in general, I'm not the super-serious tournament type, or that kind.  Alot of THAT, as you know, tends to involve the same decks, often COPIED from someone else, not built, and I haaaaaaaaaate doing that.  If I'm gonna have a deck, it'll be MY bloody deck.  I get no satisfaction out of a victory otherwise.   So I play piles of other modes, whatever the heck I feel like at the time.  Some of course are using only the card sets in the current rotations, some may be older sets only, others might be whatever the heck you want.... which is the other thing.... I wouldnt play this version whatsoever if I didn't get to have continuous use of all the cards I already have. 

As for dealing with AI, THAT one is up to the player.   USUALLY.... not always, but usually.... I get bored of AI in competetive games very fast.  Part of this comes from playing too many fighting games, where the AI is weak even at the highest levels.  And of course if you've tried Hearthstone at all, well.... then you've seen the lowest level of TCG AI, hah.   The AI has to be bloody BRILLIANT, as AIs go, or it's not gonna last long. 

....which is another thing about their damn expansion.   With AI that blasted weak, why focus on this singleplayer junk?  Ugh.   I have alot of respect for Blizzard, but I just dont understand them sometimes, I really dont.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on July 28, 2014, 11:15:16 AM
Yeah the trading shenanigans are not unknown to me, but as I you know from what I wrote before, I never actually owned a single card ;) I was just... extremely "dumb" lucky back a millennia when I wanted to play MTG and in my school there was a group to play with that basically sponsored the cards and decks, no idea who exactly had owned all those cards back then but it was a blast, to just construct "fun" decks and have.. fun (To me MTG is never much about competitiveness, I rather play "Thematic" decks that tell a story and have a very tight focus on their specific synergy and race/color. You won't find a demon or fire spell in my white decks, you won't see me play decks that don't have a gimmick ;p Nor more than 1 angel in my human only white equipment/enchant decks. Nor will you find anything but *cats* in my cat lifegain deck (which by the way, is a blast in 2 headed giant, 1 AI attacks, and my deck is focused on gaining life, it takes at least a 10/10 unblocked over 3 turns to even bring us down to 30 again usually. And the allied AI will even try to maintain this lifegain advantage, it will protect your own important artifacts with counter spells if it has them and all that.

But Misery, when you say the AI in HS.. forget everything about AI you know related to card games, the AI in MTG 2013/2014/2015 is absolutely masochistic insane hardcore. It has 100% awareness of synergies, if it sees one, it will play it so utterly you wish back the times Ai was stupid.

I've lost games with my (hand-constructed) out of pure synergy vs synergy combat, that only happens when the enemy is on par with your abilities, after all, if you don't see synergies (like the AI in HS) then you can't properly fight. One specific deck (pure white exalted focus) I basically just won by sitting attacks out until I had 2 specific artifacts (Which I thankfully had put in the deck) that gave me counters per combat damage and per damage taken and allowed me to put -1-1 counters on enemies or 2 life for each counter on the artifact and gain +1 life on each upkeep (so basically 2 health per turn), AI responded by scrying for a shrouded creature card to prevent me from -1-1 it's attacker to death and from then on only attacked with that and tried to out-damage the counter heal. When it saw my artifact, it also played a "sacrifice to destroy artifact" creature. Only reason I won that is because my artifacts were hexproof thanks to 1 of my creatures...

Point being, the AI in MTG 2014 is equal to human intelligence. ;) I wouldn't play it if it were otherwise...  And since you can construct decks for the AI, if you make an OP deck, the AI will show you how to properly use it if you had doubts ,P

Anyway, all I really mean to say is.. I had no idea you could mod all the cards into Magic 2014... I always thought the same way you did, MTG games were always so limited, with stupid SP and grinding and all that, (Hence you need to crack it, for one it unlocks all cards, and secondly you need to stop it from checking card hashs. But now I have 7700 cards to choose from in the deck builder, and that means you can craft any deck you could possibly want... and give it to the AI ;P
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on July 31, 2014, 09:14:54 AM
Hmm, actually it's occurred to me that there's not much reason for me NOT to buy the blasted thing and give it a go... $10 doesnt mean much.  So I might do that.  I would at least like to experiment with it a bit, and if they can manage to actually keep up with the various releases as they come (or a bit after, even) it might help for deck building for MGO since it'd let me test card ratios (which is bloody difficult to get right and drives me up the wall) against something that isnt a real opponent.  I hate jumping into a "proper" match and then finding that I totally screwed up the counts for various card types.  Which I do often.

....that and it might be nice on my laptop.  Typically if I'm using that it means there just plain isnt a modem or network of any sort nearby. 


If I should go to do this, just what kinds of mods are required?  To get the full effect I mean. Looking into it briefly I *think* I found a deckbuilder (didn't 2014 not have a proper one, or something? The unmodded version anyway)

And I'm curious about this AI. I've a hard time believing that about it though, as most of the time when I hear a game has "amazing AI, it's so smart" I end up crushing it like a bug.  But we'll see.


So yeah, I might just do that.




And on the note of Hearthstone itself,  I've had a chance to have a look at this new thing of theirs.  It's.... interesting.  To begin with you face of against a series of "bosses", which have varying degrees of nastiness.  I watched an experienced player get outright deleted by them a couple of times, though that's not strictly the AI's doing, as the boss decks are able to break certain rules, and their hero powers are also unique to each boss (and typically really nasty).  However, the guy I was watching still completed the initial run through this week's DLC (there's 5 of them, being released weekly) in the base mode in like, say, 30 minutes.   There's a "hard" version to do, and "class challenges", and once  you've done those, that's it for that week's content.   In other words, there's an OK amount of stuff there.... but nothing that'll LAST all that long.


And what REALLY gets me about this is player reactions to it.  Like, HOLY CRAP ITS SO FREAKING GOOD sort of reactions.   I saw one guy say "Finally! It's here! If Blizzard keeps putting out stuff like this, it'll keep me paying and playing forever!", and it's like.... okay, do you even know how long it takes to go through this?  Cause it's looking to not take very much time, and then you've unlocked everything and are done.


On the plus side the new cards are.... interesting.  Moreso than I expected, their mere existence will utterly warp the meta for the game. Not a bad thing at all.  Though it doesnt excuse the fact that there's still only 30 of them.....

I'll be interested to see where Blizzard goes with it from here.  One way or another they WILL have to address the low card pool at some point, as it's not something that can just be ignored forever.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: madcow on July 31, 2014, 02:46:10 PM
On the new hearthstone content. I went through the first released wing (the free release) and I had no trouble really. I did both the normal mode and the class challenges and only lost once or twice. I have only the basic cards with barely anything unlocked and I didn't even need to change my decks from the ones I had built a month or two ago (when I last played hearthstone).

In short. The first wing was easy even for somebody that is a hearthstone newb without any special cards unlocked (I have a few packs I got from unlocked gold).  The heroic mode I haven't tried but it looks substantially harder. Maybe the newer wings have more difficulty, I couldn't say.

 It was a fun distraction but I personally don't see it drawing me in enough to play again or buy the expansions.  This is from the perspective of a non-CCG player.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on July 31, 2014, 04:22:16 PM
Hmm, actually it's occurred to me that there's not much reason for me NOT to buy the blasted thing and give it a go... $10 doesnt mean much.  So I might do that.  I would at least like to experiment with it a bit, and if they can manage to actually keep up with the various releases as they come (or a bit after, even) it might help for deck building for MGO since it'd let me test card ratios (which is bloody difficult to get right and drives me up the wall) against something that isnt a real opponent.  I hate jumping into a "proper" match and then finding that I totally screwed up the counts for various card types.  Which I do often.

....that and it might be nice on my laptop.  Typically if I'm using that it means there just plain isnt a modem or network of any sort nearby. 


If I should go to do this, just what kinds of mods are required?  To get the full effect I mean. Looking into it briefly I *think* I found a deckbuilder (didn't 2014 not have a proper one, or something? The unmodded version anyway)

And I'm curious about this AI. I've a hard time believing that about it though, as most of the time when I hear a game has "amazing AI, it's so smart" I end up crushing it like a bug.  But we'll see.


So yeah, I might just do that.

You want basically ALL the cards packs in that forum ;) They all work, journey to NYX, official 2010, 2013, 2012 cards, and the various other card packs  and Riiaks deckbuilder, you need that because the stock deck builder only allows you to edit your in-game "deck" (default cards, + unlocks) while the external deck-builder allows you to create entirely new decks with the modded cards you download. Decks you can download too, unless you want to create your own ones the whole way.

You also need the manual mana tapping mod and the other mods all have some other dependency.. some API extension or some such..

There is some duplication going on of course with the "yearly" card packs because the games often had identical cards.. you also want CORE fixes that fixes existing decks and cards. And simply look around, moving a WAD in the folder and testing it in riiaks deck builder is not taking much time. If it loads in the deck builder, it will load in the game.

As for AI.. well let's just say it can do what the deck it has allows it to. ;) Only 1 issue exists, related to poison counters. (AI doesn't know it loses with 10 of them)

Lastly, you need the injector DLL from Riiak that disables the WAD signature check and steam profile stuff. Hence why you want a crack (even if you own the game ,p)

Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on January 20, 2015, 09:44:03 PM
*Necroed*

So recently I've been playing Hearthstone (I had a friend that wanted to play then I got hooked on it).

I have few problems with the game itself, which is simple but addicting like most card games, though Blizzard did a very good job. There are some particularly overpowered cards that you see over and over and which it seems everyone agrees should be nerfed, but that's probably the case in every game.

My biggest complaint though is that the unranked matchmaking system is just HORRIBLE. It's like Blizzard kicking you in the shin while simultaneously getting you from behind. It is so incredibly broken and favored towards people who have spent money on the game.

To those who don't know the game that well, "Legendary" cards are essentially the best cards in the game, with a few exceptions. They are also extremely expensive. For the most part, the only way to obtain them is to win them by sheer luck through opening packs (the chances are extremely remote) or by spending 1600 crafting points on them. Well, obtaining 1600 crafting points without spending money could probably take weeks or months. And that's ONE Legendary. A single freaking Legendary card after weeks of playing, if you're lucky.

I currently have 2 Legendaries, one of them is class specific and the other one I sometimes don't even put into my deck because it's very situational. It's not one I've ever seen anyone else use in the month I've been playing, and it's certainly not top tier by any stretch of the imagination. For the most part, I craft my deck out of the random cards I get from packs when my gold allows.

I've got to say, I make some pretty dang good decks with just the hodge podge of crappy cards the game has given me, and this has become abundantly clear by the fact that Blizzard keeps matching me against people who have obviously spent hundreds of dollars on this game. When my opponents have 5 of the best Legendaries in the game every single time in your deck, including tons of good Epic and Rare cards (I typically only have an one or two Epics in each deck), it no longer matters how good my deck is, I'm going to get squashed like a bug. Why would they not design their unranked matchmaking system to match players based on money spent, I have no idea. I've spent $4 on this game. That's it. That may be all I'll ever spend. So why not put me against the other players who have spent $4? Because I'd crush them I presume. Frak you Blizzard, I'm so ragey right now.

I mean I wouldn't even really care that much. Okay, I'm too good, now you gotta put me against the people who have spent their life savings on your cash cow. I get it. However, I can't even completely my daily quests anymore because I'm getting put up against Pro McWannabe and Mom's Credit Card and I'm so sick of it.

It seems I can either spend more money on the game or just quit doing my daily quests because I spend so much time losing to people who are obviously rich that it's not worth it anymore. In Arena, I do extremely well because it's always an even playing field but this, this has just become ridiculous. Sorry, just wanted to vent.

Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on January 21, 2015, 12:47:59 AM
Pretty much agree, and this is a problem all card games have that run any kind of constructed decks. Scrolls has the same problem btw. Your starter decks include creatures that have an "randomly found" equivalent creature (same price) but +1 on each stat (+ haste) meaning even if you play properly, you are never, ever, going to win against someone who has the +1 cards of your starter deck. Because he can kill any of your creatures while you can kill none of his.

And add to that the massive randomness of what you draw vs how badly you are going to loose if you don't have the proper AOE spells in your deck... it's just.. boring. Think it's just an inherent flaw in card games that have such constructed deck modes and wonky match-making (Hearthstone specifically has the absolute WORST...) at least on EU servers
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on January 21, 2015, 02:54:15 AM
That's the case with games that allow too much disparity between cards. Shadow Era COULD potentially have the same issue, but since EVERYTHING in Shadow Era is ranked, you'll quickly climb out of the "newb ranks" if you are either good or have bought a complete "iWin"-deck you read online. That said, most good decks can probably be built by someone who plays a little every day in fairly short order as cards aren't that expensive in Shadow Era.


But yeah, I get the same feeling from HS. It doesn't matter if I'm awesome, because I'll still get completely pasted by Mr EveryGoldCardEver McSpamLegendary
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on January 21, 2015, 04:41:37 AM
*Necroed*

So recently I've been playing Hearthstone (I had a friend that wanted to play then I got hooked on it).

I have few problems with the game itself, which is simple but addicting like most card games, though Blizzard did a very good job. There are some particularly overpowered cards that you see over and over and which it seems everyone agrees should be nerfed, but that's probably the case in every game.

My biggest complaint though is that the unranked matchmaking system is just HORRIBLE. It's like Blizzard kicking you in the shin while simultaneously getting you from behind. It is so incredibly broken and favored towards people who have spent money on the game.

To those who don't know the game that well, "Legendary" cards are essentially the best cards in the game, with a few exceptions. They are also extremely expensive. For the most part, the only way to obtain them is to win them by sheer luck through opening packs (the chances are extremely remote) or by spending 1600 crafting points on them. Well, obtaining 1600 crafting points without spending money could probably take weeks or months. And that's ONE Legendary. A single freaking Legendary card after weeks of playing, if you're lucky.

I currently have 2 Legendaries, one of them is class specific and the other one I sometimes don't even put into my deck because it's very situational. It's not one I've ever seen anyone else use in the month I've been playing, and it's certainly not top tier by any stretch of the imagination. For the most part, I craft my deck out of the random cards I get from packs when my gold allows.

I've got to say, I make some pretty dang good decks with just the hodge podge of crappy cards the game has given me, and this has become abundantly clear by the fact that Blizzard keeps matching me against people who have obviously spent hundreds of dollars on this game. When my opponents have 5 of the best Legendaries in the game every single time in your deck, including tons of good Epic and Rare cards (I typically only have an one or two Epics in each deck), it no longer matters how good my deck is, I'm going to get squashed like a bug. Why would they not design their unranked matchmaking system to match players based on money spent, I have no idea. I've spent $4 on this game. That's it. That may be all I'll ever spend. So why not put me against the other players who have spent $4? Because I'd crush them I presume. Frak you Blizzard, I'm so ragey right now.

I mean I wouldn't even really care that much. Okay, I'm too good, now you gotta put me against the people who have spent their life savings on your cash cow. I get it. However, I can't even completely my daily quests anymore because I'm getting put up against Pro McWannabe and Mom's Credit Card and I'm so sick of it.

It seems I can either spend more money on the game or just quit doing my daily quests because I spend so much time losing to people who are obviously rich that it's not worth it anymore. In Arena, I do extremely well because it's always an even playing field but this, this has just become ridiculous. Sorry, just wanted to vent.

Yeah, I can agree with this for the most part.

My one huge problem with Hearthstone is that very simple fact that higher rarity really does tend to = better cards.  Now, that's not always the case.... some of the basic cards (that you start with) are absolutely fantastic when used right... but in an overall sense, it's very true.

It particularly annoys me as a longtime fan of Magic.  In that game, rares tend to have a very specific couple of qualities:  1, they are stronger, but 2, they are alot more risky.  Getting a 10/10 creature seems all sorts of strong at first... but is made alot less good if you have to sacrifice 3 other creatures to get it.  Particularly if your opponent then just deletes it on the next turn.  And so on.  So it's a powerful card, but only if you're very careful with it.  Make a mistake with a card like that, and you'll basically just be shooting yourself in the foot. 

But yeah, there are too many players out there that'll just abuse the hell outta the "just keep buying cards" bit.  I admit to being the "Mom's Credit Card" sort myself, as you so eloquently call it, in that I can just buy whatever I happen to want at pretty much any time simply because I'm bored or something.... but I generally refuse to use that sort of tactic with games like this.   With Magic it's fine because of how it's balanced:  With Hearthstone it just bothers me because of how it's NOT.   So I just refuse to do it.   Same as how I just refuse to use infinites and such in fighting games.  Where's the challenge or satisfaction in that?  Boring.

....also I'm going to start calling people "Pro McWannabe" now when I run into that sort, because that name is hilarious.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Zebeast46 on January 21, 2015, 07:01:49 PM
If you guys are looking for a significantly less pay to win game then hearthstone and a game which requires more skill than hearthstone try infinity wars. After 5 hours of playing I received 360 cards just playing against the ai by beating the campaign. With those cards I was able to make a pretty good deck. The reason why I said it requires more skill is because turns happen at the same time, so you have to guess what your opponent will do, because of this it is very difficult for there to be a best play or a best course of action unless you can predict the future. The two downsides are that the community is a little small and the card base is a little small too, but on the flipside all the cards are animated!!!
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on January 25, 2015, 07:36:23 AM
So, continuing with this, and..... uuuuuugh.

I really do wish they would balance out the bloody legendaries a bit better.  I'm still playing with a relatively low available card pool (though for the level I'm at, it's not bad at all), but I still will run into "heavy" cards that I really cant do anything about.

Like that bloody Warlock card that completely replaces the Warlock character with that demon jerk, the one that can summon 6/6 things just by paying 2 mana as the hero power.  And has 15 health.  With no counter I can think of aside from something like a Mage's Counterspell.  Since it's not a minion, once it's played there's nothing you can really do.   Had that happen just now, though other than that it WAS a really good match with alot of back and forth lunacy.     

Still, just a bit irritating... even if it is fun.  Not an unbeatable thing, I've beaten a transformed Warlock before, but it's very difficult to deal with. 


....also the matchmaking can indeed be a bit of a snot sometimes. 
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on January 25, 2015, 09:16:30 AM
So, continuing with this, and..... uuuuuugh.

I really do wish they would balance out the bloody legendaries a bit better.  I'm still playing with a relatively low available card pool (though for the level I'm at, it's not bad at all), but I still will run into "heavy" cards that I really cant do anything about.

Like that bloody Warlock card that completely replaces the Warlock character with that demon jerk, the one that can summon 6/6 things just by paying 2 mana as the hero power.  And has 15 health.  With no counter I can think of aside from something like a Mage's Counterspell.  Since it's not a minion, once it's played there's nothing you can really do.   Had that happen just now, though other than that it WAS a really good match with alot of back and forth lunacy.     

Still, just a bit irritating... even if it is fun.  Not an unbeatable thing, I've beaten a transformed Warlock before, but it's very difficult to deal with. 


....also the matchmaking can indeed be a bit of a snot sometimes.
To be fair though, Jaraxxus is just impossible to counter if you were already behind and would've lost anyway. Because otherwise when Jaraxxus is spawned, you can just rush him down. 15 HP isn't a lot.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on January 25, 2015, 10:49:52 AM
Actually at the time I'd been quite well ahead; He was at about 6 life, I was at 21, I had a decent minion out, he had one rather small taunt minion (like, 2/3 I think it was).  But he then got out his 6/6 before I could kill the stupid taunt, aaaaaaand.... the game proceeded to give me 3 spells in a row as draws.   This being a paladin deck, these werent exactly super duper removal cards.  Pretty much any of my remaining minions in the deck woulda done a world of good.

Fortunately the game doesnt pull that one often.  But when it does, ahh.... it's like getting "mana screwed" in Magic.   Always hated it when that happened.  That particular card still bugs me though, has from the very start.


Doesnt help though that I also just dont have much in the way of high-end late-game cards;  I have mostly Ysera, and... Ysera.  Still have so much collection-expanding to do.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: The Hunter on January 26, 2015, 07:43:37 AM
(haven't posted for ages)
The complaining about legendaries always makes me want to facedesk...

There are alot of good decks that don't use legendaries, and cards like Boulderfist Ogre and the new Force Tank are a decent sub for endgame if needed. There's alot of removal and Jaraxxus is actually not hard to deal with unless you are already losing, easily dealt with with any kind of burst, and countered with Ooze/Harrison, and if you really dont like to see him you can even run Sacrificial pact. ;)
Also pally has one of /the/ removal combos with Pyro/Equality or Equality/Concecrate.
Legendaries are pretty balanced, well, except for maybe Dr.Boom which is being run by everyone nowadays.

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My one huge problem with Hearthstone is that very simple fact that higher rarity really does tend to = better cards.
Not really, look up deck of legendaries and deck of epics vids and see how "well" they go.  :) Really though, decks with low mana curve like zoo are being run alot and contain barely any or none of legendaries. Legendaries aren't really required to win.

Also Trump has made some series where he got to the legend rank starting from scratch and using F2P decks with like 1 epic max and no legendaries.

If you are losing just because of legendaries then you are doing something really really wrong.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on January 26, 2015, 11:55:44 AM
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Doesnt help though that I also just dont have much in the way of high-end late-game cards;  I have mostly Ysera, and... Ysera.  Still have so much collection-expanding to do.
Ysera is still Ysera, possibly the best lategame Legendary in the game :D. I wish I had it ;p

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There are alot of good decks that don't use legendaries, and cards like Boulderfist Ogre and the new Force Tank are a decent sub for endgame if needed.
They aren't really that great honestly. Comparing Force Tank and Boulderfist Ogre to their Legendary counterparts is kind of a joke. Nobody runs Force Tank really, it's too expensive and too easy to counter.

Dr. Boom is yeah, extremely stupid.

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Not really, look up deck of legendaries and deck of epics vids and see how "well" they go.
Actually Warrior decks do pretty well stacked with Epics and Legendaries, an example build by a professional player here (http://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/legendary-warrior-control-naxx-gvg-deck).

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Also Trump has made some series where he got to the legend rank starting from scratch and using F2P decks with like 1 epic max and no legendaries.
That was before Naxx and GVG friend. Those decks he made would get absolutely demolished in the current meta. Naxx, $25 minimum, is more or less required now to get to Legend. Welcome to the future of Blizzard gaming.

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Really though, decks with low mana curve like zoo are being run alot and contain barely any or none of legendaries.
Once again, all the current zoos require, at the very least, Naxxramas, so you're still looking $25 minimum in order to run it. Using Pre-Naxx zoos won't cut it anymore. Also, one of the only reasons zoo is so powerful right now is because of the extremely overpowered Undertaker, and once that gets nerfed, chances are they fall out of favor or at the very least become a lot more expensive to craft.



Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on January 26, 2015, 08:38:10 PM
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with Wingflier here on this one.

The situation with Jaraxxus, for instance.  Burst him down?  You have to HAVE some burst, first.  I barely have anything resembling late-game options (which is what I call anything used to deal with large threats) to even PUT in my decks, let alone use.  Equality + Consecration, which I already naturally have in the deck.... yeah.  That works ONCE, this being because I have only ONE Equality card;  I'd already used that combo earlier in the match at a key moment.  It wouldnt have helped actually take him down anyway without anything heavy to hit him with, because he'd just fart out more giant minions.  Harrison Jones I have (a legendary though, note), having stuck him in there after getting overly annoyed by weapon-related threats, but he never showed up in that particular match despite being in that deck as well (wouldnt have stopped the 6/6 plague though).  Ysera is in there too, because yes, but also never showed.

And I'm not saying that a deck needs to be stuffed with just legendaries and epics.  My problem is that most high level decks will definitely have some of each, and the way things are balanced out, alot of the legendaries are all good, no risk.  Or at least, nothing that I personally would put under the "risk" category.   Look at Ysera for instance.  Drop her down, she's got a damn silly 12 HP, and one way or another, you're getting at least one dream card out of her;  and it's not THAT hard to help her stick around longer.  Best of all though, she doesnt have a true risk-reward aspect.  She doesnt eat half your minions when you play her or suck away 10 of your health.... you JUST pay the 9 mana, like playing any other expensive card.... and that's it.  And yeah, you could say "well being super expensive is the risk" but that can be applied to any card, and many legendaries ARENT super expensive, being more normal-priced like other cards, yet still having way more power/utility as Ysera does.  Typically once I do get Ysera out, she's *going* to cause some major problems for my opponent, or outright end the game.

I dunno.  As a big fan of CCGs in general I always find it so hard to NOT compare things to Magic;  Ysera there would do something like eat 2 of your creatures at the end of each of your turn in return for her services, making it so that you lose alot more than just mana if you put her out only to have her destroyed the next turn.  It'd balance out the gigantic power a bit, beyond just "be expensive".   And I sure aint saying there arent some fantastic non-epic/legendary cards, because of course there are..... but there's still just too many cards that are one of those two, and offer gigantic power with little risk, the only true "cost" being the difficulty of getting the bloody things.   Heck, Ysera I had to craft;  I knew full well how good she is and that I could make some darned good use of her, so definitely wanted that one, but.... argh, yeah, it takes alot to craft a legendary indeed. 

Aint saying the game as a whole is an unbalanced mess or something... it's still a fantastic game as far as I'm concerned.   Particularly now that a true expansion has appeared.  And the balance as a whole is doing pretty nicely too. But sometimes.... that "pay 2 win" feeling can appear at least a bit (granted this can happen with ANY card game, but still, I get it from this game most of all).   Naxx didn't help with that one bit; such a small amount of total cards, yet so costly!  I havent bought that one yet (just have that first episode) mostly just out of lazy (I will likely do it later tonight actually, because I keep meaning to), but I've certainly noticed that it seems quite important to have right now, despite it's cost.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on January 26, 2015, 08:55:40 PM
Naxxramas is absolutely necessary to participate in the current meta. It's chocked full of extremely powerful cards. Sludge Belcher, Undertaker, Loatheb, Duplicate, Zombie Chow, Dark Cultist, just to name a few. The neutral minions are so good they make most of the vanilla minions, especially the starting ones, look pathetic in comparison. Making a deck without access to these cards would be painful at best.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: The Hunter on January 26, 2015, 11:04:48 PM
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Comparing Force Tank and Boulderfist Ogre to their Legendary counterparts is kind of a joke. Nobody runs Force Tank really, it's too expensive and too easy to counter.

Polymorph, hex etc gets either, also boulderfist ogre is actually harder to counter cause its BGH immune.

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Actually Warrior decks do pretty well stacked with Epics and Legendaries, an example build by a professional player here (http://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/legendary-warrior-control-naxx-gvg-deck).

Not really what i meant by decks of legendaries  :P

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That was before Naxx and GVG friend. Those decks he made would get absolutely demolished in the current meta. Naxx, $25 minimum, is more or less required now to get to Legend. Welcome to the future of Blizzard gaming.

Actually his last one was post naxx.

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extremely overpowered Undertaker

*facedesk* That card has alot of counters, like about all 2 mana removal, axe, silence, and so on, and if you draw it not in opening hand its really bad. I've played it myself at some point and it was pretty rarely out of control. Actually play things before calling them OP.

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this being because I have only ONE Equality card

Craft another one instead of complaining that you cant deal with opponents stuff because you are lacking essential removal? Get a couple of peacekeepers while on it too. Also having not much in terms of burst is pally's weakness, so you are getting countered as well.

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<MTG stuff>

From a perspective of someone who haven't really played nor liked MTG, i would find Ysera unplayable if it required 2 other minions. Just 9 mana is actually a big risk, cause you are pretty much have to skip turn and its actually pretty difficult to find perfect time to play 9 mana card at times. Dr.Boom only one legendary that i can think of that is being edgy, but thats likely to get hit with nerfhammer as there were cards in the past that every deck ran that got hit.

---

And if you really don't like constructed, just play arena and friendly challenges, or fun decks like Randuin Wrynn, rank really doesn't matters currently anyways.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on January 27, 2015, 12:08:07 AM
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Not really what i meant by decks of legendaries  :P
Errrrrr...a viable deck full 7 legendaries when you have NONE is basically impossible to beat unless you've also spent money on the game, in which case you would have some decent legendaries. I think that was the point?

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Actually his last one was post naxx.
Trump is trash anyway. He's not a competitive player, I've seen him run arena he made countless mistakes. He couldn't hack it at SC2, he's not an authority on Hearthstone by any stretch, I have no idea why people even reference him. Anyway, show me that post-naxx basic deck that got him to legend.

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*facedesk* That card has alot of counters, like about all 2 mana removal, axe, silence, and so on, and if you draw it not in opening hand its really bad. I've played it myself at some point and it was pretty rarely out of control. Actually play things before calling them OP.
High level players have explained that the card is problematic, or outright overpowered. It's pretty much the glue that every aggro deck hinges on at the moment, which in itself should be proof enough that it's too strong. Anyway, you can hear what the pros have to say about it here if you're interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/2sq55i/what_the_pros_think_about_undertaker_team_archon/




Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on January 27, 2015, 08:03:07 AM
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Craft another one instead of complaining that you cant deal with opponents stuff because you are lacking essential removal? Get a couple of peacekeepers while on it too. Also having not much in terms of burst is pally's weakness, so you are getting countered as well.

The crafting idea would be super duper.... if I wasnt entirely out of dust, and out of cards that I'm willing to turn into dust.  I wouldnt have mentioned it otherwise, as I'm not very patient when I have to wait for something, so I would have just already done it.

Which actually showcases my OTHER problem with the game:  Not enough options yet.  Certain cards end up being in *every* deck, or nearly every deck, for the classes they are a part of, because there just isnt anything else to really choose from for that slot that can occupy that role.  The mage's Flamestrike, for example.  Pretty much always there. There just isnt really any other options that might be chosen INSTEAD of that.   And that's boring.  It's like having a card slot that's already selected FOR you.  Obviously not EVERY deck ever uses that, for mages, but it's so freakishly common that it may as well be that way.  Or the fact that the consecration combo is "essential board clear", having to nearly always be there for Paladins is also kinda dull.

As for that second bit... that's part of the problem to me.  The solution to that transformation card is "use alot of burst".  If I happen to be playing a class that isnt made of burst... that's kind of a dumb reason for the thing to suddenly become nigh-unstoppable.  I consider it unbalanced because I've yet to hear of a DIFFERENT way to stop it other than "do a whole 15 damage really super fast somehow".  While it farts out 6/6 minions for 2.  While playing other cards.


From a perspective of someone who haven't really played nor liked MTG, i would find Ysera unplayable if it required 2 other minions. Just 9 mana is actually a big risk, cause you are pretty much have to skip turn and its actually pretty difficult to find perfect time to play 9 mana card at times. Dr.Boom only one legendary that i can think of that is being edgy, but thats likely to get hit with nerfhammer as there were cards in the past that every deck ran that got hit.

The thing about Ysera though:  Once it's out, it's nothing BUT positives.  Which is my problem with high-rarity cards as a whole.  There's no thought process in using Ysera;  you just play it at the right moment, and if you have it in your deck, you probably have something specific in there to protect it.  It becomes a pretty simple play, and it merely needs to exist to provide constant, strong benefits.  In MTG, it's not that simple.  You have to figure out a good way to get the thing out.... but then you ALSO have to deal with the challenge of KEEPING it out while not screwing yourself over.  This is what keeps high-power cards from ending up like Jaraxxus:  A card with that guy's power would have some detrimental effect that gave it an actual risk-reward sort of thing.  Not JUST in "how much it costs", but in other interesting ways as well that complicates the decisions you have to make.  Manage to keep him out safely, and you have great power.... but screw up, and he'll explode in your face.  This ALSO increases the amount of potential strategic options available to BOTH players when said card is out, and adds to the complexity as such.   That sort of thing is why I still like MTG more than any other game I've yet encountered.  This one just doesnt do that.  EVERY TCG manages the "direct cost = difficulty in playing", so HS having that at all doesnt mean much.  It's that nothing restrictive happens once they're already out, and that there's very rarely an ADDITIONAL cost, that bugs the hell outta me.   Even if I'm the one playing the card in question.  As such I dont find Ysera to actually be very entertaining to use.  I still LIKE that card, mind you, I just think it isnt all that interesting.

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And if you really don't like constructed, just play arena and friendly challenges, or fun decks like Randuin Wrynn, rank really doesn't matters currently anyways.

Constructed is what I'm used to with these, so I'll end up doing it the most.  Arena has a cost to it, which annoys me a bit;  typically when I'm interested in a particular mode in a particular game, I'm probably going to want to play it like 20 times in a row;  cannot do that with Arena.  So I've ended up just not having very much interest and have just been using gold on card packs. 

Currently though I am indeed somewhat ignoring the ranked mode, which is typical for me in some types of competitive games (like MOBAs, argh argh argh).  Part of that though is also that I find it to be a good way to learn the cards, particularly as I refuse to "netdeck", this being because I find it kinda boring.  I get more satisfaction and fun if I just do it myself.

Also dont take my comments though to be as harsh as they might sound, because I *always* sound like this even about games I absolutely love (I call myself Misery for alot of reasons, and that's one of them, is my inherant negativity).  Minecraft currently reigns as my favorite game overall, but I could probably rant for 3 pages about problems that I think it has.  Or MTG:  I ramble about it's values, and I do think it's fantastic, and I've been playing it since the Ice Age set (which is downright ancient at this point) but.... yep, another multi-page rambling wordblob for that one, I could write.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on January 27, 2015, 08:27:52 AM
Ysera is actually one the worst balanced cards in HS imo. It should have 3 HP, not 16. The reason is it gives you an instant unique card draw. And cards that you give you instant abilities should have severe downsides to them.

I give you an example how a comparable minion should look (And does look) in MTG, now remember MTG has ... a shit-ton more cards, and mana colors are a huge factor...

Indulgent Tormentor
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=383276

5 Mana, 5/3, highly situational and opponent has option (and defenses) against allowing you to draw a card.

Often you follow this with other creatures, like

Rune Scarred Demon
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=263730

already a 7 mana creature, and gives you 1 chosen card (very powerful thing to play in MTG) still only a 6/6

Normally you have a black deck with more base cards
Shadowborn Demon
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=371402&part=Shadowborn+Demon

Phyrexian Rager
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=240576

Paragon of Open graves
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=384192

Notice how these cards all have downsides to them, and are not actually hard to kill. (flying demons aside ;P)

Some of the cards I play in my black death-touch deck of demons. Also Rotfiend, Gravedigger, Treasure find only green spell via (Green/Black gate) and of course, zombies ;P Because I also have that demon that requires sacrifices unless you have 6 dead minions in the graveyard. And then of course tons of assassinate, hunger (sacrifice) and death-touch related stuff. The only way I loose with this deck is if the enemy has immunity to black or tons of negative enchantments ;p

Just as an example how card draw minions are balanced in MTG... I don't actually play anything better than rare in this deck. (That said, I was lazy and should probably look for more green spells that give hexproof or related. Only having 1 green spell is a really shitty synergy for a black(land/gate)/green(gate) deck ;P
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on January 27, 2015, 08:42:11 AM
Yet I seem to remember competent "high level" HS players claiming Jaraxxus is terribad. Terribad as in "should never ever be played." I don't play HS so I can't tell, I just remember that being the idea. I'm also amused there is such a thing as "high level play" in HS. Personally it's *too* simple for me to enjoy it. There aren't any options beyond "that one ultimate deck". No resource mechanic, no saccing mechanic...I just feel it lacks compared to other card games.


That said, I personally find MTG to be too complicated and has a very odd resource system.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on January 27, 2015, 09:45:23 AM
Jaraxxus may be terrible in high level play (it probably is), but then again, high level play is LITERALLY dominated by a handful of decks (say 5 or so) with very little variation between them. When you have access to EVERY card, as the high level players who have spent thousands on the game do, most cards, by comparison to the best, are terribad by their very nature.

However, Jaraxxus against a person who only has access to the F2P cards and whatever else they've won simply by playing is Terrigood.

Also, on Misery's point: Deathwing seems like a balanced Legendary to me. It costs 10 mana, and when played, clears the entire board AND forces the player to discard his hand. It's also considered worthless in competitive play, so there's that.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on January 27, 2015, 09:47:33 AM
Jaraxxus may be terrible in high level play (it probably is), but then again, high level play is LITERALLY dominated by a handful of decks (say 5 or so) with very little variation between them. When you have access to EVERY card, as the high level players who have spent thousands on the game do, most cards, by comparison to the best, are terribad by their very nature.

However, Jaraxxus against a person who only has access to the F2P cards and whatever else they've won simply by playing is Terrigood.

Also, on Misery's point: Deathwing seems like a balanced Legendary to me. It costs 10 mana, and when played, clears the entire board AND forces the player to discard his hand. It's also considered worthless in competitive play, so there's that.
Probably the same as with Jaraxxus. If you get to the point where you can play him, you have probably already won, so the card doesn't actually do anything, and if you are behind, it won't save you regardless.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on January 27, 2015, 10:57:11 AM
Jaraxxus may be terrible in high level play (it probably is), but then again, high level play is LITERALLY dominated by a handful of decks (say 5 or so) with very little variation between them. When you have access to EVERY card, as the high level players who have spent thousands on the game do, most cards, by comparison to the best, are terribad by their very nature.

However, Jaraxxus against a person who only has access to the F2P cards and whatever else they've won simply by playing is Terrigood.

Also, on Misery's point: Deathwing seems like a balanced Legendary to me. It costs 10 mana, and when played, clears the entire board AND forces the player to discard his hand. It's also considered worthless in competitive play, so there's that.

Agreed on everything.  Except Deathwing, I dont know much about that.

And the problem for me is... honestly, I'd rather play at the level where Jaraxxus is crazy good, because it's interesting, then the level where there are like 2 and a half different decks that people ever use.  It ends up feeling like playing a fighting game ranked... everyone just does the same boring things, over and over....  the difference is, in a fighter, I can do MY own thing and win anyway.  But a CCG just doesnt work that way, as a rule.   I'd be bored in high level play in this, honestly.  I like variety.  Sure, Arena can definitely provide that, but.... again, restricted entry.   Among other issues.   Even in unranked play though some things are getting overly frequent and thus getting on my nerves, like the blasted "mech mage", which I'm already tired of. 
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on January 27, 2015, 12:31:25 PM
For me in unranked it's Ragnoros Firelord. I'm not even exaggerating, it's in EVERY SINGLE DECK. It's basically the "I win" button deals 8 damage in the same turn and you better hope you have a Big Game Hunter in your hand or GG.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on January 27, 2015, 12:35:18 PM
For me in unranked it's Ragnoros Firelord. I'm not even exaggerating, it's in EVERY SINGLE DECK. It's basically the "I win" button deals 8 damage in the same turn and you better hope you have a Big Game Hunter in your hand or GG.
Yeah, since Rag fires on the end of your turn, that's 8 guaranteed damage straight out of the box. And since he has 8 health, he's really hard to get rid of without some epic kind of removal.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on January 27, 2015, 01:39:10 PM
It appears that Undertaker was just nerfed. A reasonable change I think.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on January 27, 2015, 10:55:43 PM
It appears that Undertaker was just nerfed. A reasonable change I think.
Holy hell, they MEGA nerfed him. They changed it from +1 attack and +1 life per deathrattle creature to just +1 attack, without altering his base stats. I'm surprised that they didn't at least give him an extra life point to compensate, in which case he would have been almost identical to the Mage's Mana Wyrm which also starts with 1/3, and gets +1 attack per spell cast. Though, in fairness I suppose, it's much easier to play early game deathrattle creatures than it is to play early game spells, which are generally more expensive, at least the good ones. So all in all, I guess it was a decent change, though I don't much expect to see Undertaker played anymore.

What a complete balance blunder on Blizzard's part.

Quote
Constructed is what I'm used to with these, so I'll end up doing it the most.  Arena has a cost to it, which annoys me a bit;  typically when I'm interested in a particular mode in a particular game, I'm probably going to want to play it like 20 times in a row;  cannot do that with Arena.  So I've ended up just not having very much interest and have just been using gold on card packs. 
Technically you *can* do that with Arena. There's a technique called "infinite arena" which allows you to keep playing Arena again and again as long as you obtain enough wins on each run to either break even or above 7 wins.

Without playing hundreds of Arena runs (or being some sort of card game genius) this would be difficult at best, however there's a nifty little tool that drafts Arena decks for you, giving you the best possible combinations of decks based on the cards you have to choose from. It's an awesome free (http://www.heartharena.com/) utility. You do have to sign up for it but it's free.

With the help of that and from watching some pros stream Arena (Hafu (http://www.twitch.tv/itshafu) is my favorite, just watch some of her), I've become an infinite arena player. I'd like to hit the big 12 but 11 is the best I've done so far. However, I commonly get 7 or more, enough to pay for my run and get the 'free' deck at the very least.

In terms of constructed decks, that would probably only be fun for me about a month after a new expansion was added. Anything after that has already most likely been figured out by the best players, given the simplistic nature of the card game itself, and the best decks at that point can simply be googled online and then crafted at will.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on January 28, 2015, 06:16:40 AM
I don't think it is a balance blunder. Undertaker is still solid as a 1/2 for one, and his change simply brings his extra ability in line with other one drops. The mana warm is not a correct comparison because class specific cards are balanced differently.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on January 28, 2015, 08:36:06 AM
In terms of constructed decks, that would probably only be fun for me about a month after a new expansion was added. Anything after that has already most likely been figured out by the best players, given the simplistic nature of the card game itself, and the best decks at that point can simply be googled online and then crafted at will.

Ugh, yeah, that's why I havent really bothered with the ranked mode.  Because inevitably, it just becomes the same thing over and over, and then it's like, what's the point?  And I hate just using decks others have constructed anyway.  Boring.

That arena thing though... ehhh.  On one hand, I'm surprised a tool like that exists.  On the other hand, it doesnt speak well about the game's depth.   Really wish it was a deeper game, really... it'd be so much more interesting and hold my attention alot better.  Currently my interest in it just rises and falls at random, I dont end up completely sticking to it.   Buuuuut, it being a game of this type that actually has a large playerbase, thus meaning it's super easy to find matches, it's the one to play.  Particularly as I am only awake during the night, so it's typically impossible to get matches going in any game that has a smallish population to it. 


I swear, outside of the moba genre, and the FPS genre that I typically wont touch, it's bloody impossible to find much in the way of really good multiplayer games.  Selection ends up so limited.  As it is I'll probably end up jumping back into Magic Online soon here.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on January 28, 2015, 09:23:47 AM
I agree with you there Misery. My multiplayer experience right now is limited to SMITE for MOBAs, Age of Wonders III for TBS and Supreme Commander for RTS. Though I might replace or supplement that last one with Grey Goo, if it turns out well enough.


Cards I still stick to Shadow Era for.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on January 28, 2015, 10:24:47 AM
Hey mana, King got me into FAF recently, I'm looking for people to play with. Fancy adding me to your friends list? It's Wingflier on Steam.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on January 28, 2015, 10:30:35 AM
Hey mana, King got me into FAF recently, I'm looking for people to play with. Fancy adding me to your friends list? It's Wingflier on Steam.
I just recently uninstalled FAF/SupCom due to lack of time to play. But I might get back to it later if GreyGoo turns out to be meh.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 01, 2016, 09:26:18 PM
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=forbes+cthun (Direct link not working, use this link and it's the first result)

In the spirit of being a Necromancer, I decided I'd rez this one to talk about this new mechanic, C'thun. This Forbes writer seems to find this mechanic to be very frustrating, to say the least.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 01, 2016, 11:21:20 PM
I played it when it came out and I was probably one of the few who didn't jump on C'thun on release day. To be honest, this expansion is the sole reason I stopped playing Hearthstone.
The whole thing is a mess and no, the fair chance that everyone gets C'thun does not even this out. The thing is, even if you get C'thun for free, he himself is not that powerful to begin with. It are his minions/servants, that make him so powerful. People who preordered the expansion got of course all the servants they needed on day 1 and dominated from that day the ranked play. It does not matter what you do, the enemy will always use a stall tactic (which works pretty good in most cases) and then summon C'thun as soon as he can. If he does, you are done for. Even if you survive his onslaught, there is only a barren wasteland left where your minions have been before. You have no fair chance of countering him. well, there are of course SOME counters but they all react when he is already in play, not when he enters, so he still will unleash his powerful fury.
Polymorph can at least make him harmless after that (if you have it) but what then? You have barely enough HP left and probably all your minions used already because the enemy stalled you so long. There is currently (in my case) no good counter for those types of decks, so I stopped playing.
The grind for new card packs isn't worth the bulshit you have to deal with.
And yes, absolut everyone had those types of decks, no exception. This is understandable because he was new, he was free and he was easy to use but it's still bullshit. I could get a C'thun deck myself but what is the point?
Nerf Now did a very good one-shot comic about this topic which somes it all up:
(http://www.nerfnow.com/img/1802/2849.png)
If both players have a C'thun deck, the player who can feed C'thun more will win. And I'm not doing this kind of nonsense. I really hate it when a game has no varity left anymore and this release did exactly that. Maybe it is better now, people could be bored of him already and start playing their old decks again. But I won't come back. I'm done!

I cannot open your link btw, it just sends me on the front page.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 02, 2016, 12:17:58 AM
Quote
I cannot open your link btw, it just sends me on the front page.
That's because the Forbes website is literally retarded, and you can't direct link to their pages (why? I have no idea. Probably because they can't monetize it that way, frakking corporate goonies).

The easiest way to read the article is to click this link (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=forbes+cthun), and it's the first result on the page. Basically the author talks about how he bought 140 packs of the new expansion within the first 2 days (expensive much?) and how even with all those cards, he stills thinks the C'thun mechanic is completely bogus.

I of course quit playing Hearthstone a long time ago because it was way too pay2win back then, now it looks to be vastly even more so, and because the game is so unbelievably luck-based that it's unforgivable. Like, it's a CARD game. The luck of the draw is enough luck as it is, why do you need to artificially add even more than that? Hell, in Hearthstone the card draw was probably the least of your worries in terms of all the horrible things that could happen to you purely based on chance.

That's why Duelyst (https://duelyst.com/index-lyonar-vs-songhai-dark?utm_expid=82354842-2.XsVx2vEJSA2LlxHe-cuaSg.3&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F) is an objectively better game. The only luck was the luck of the draw, nothing else is based on chance, only on player skill. You could even swap out two cards per turn, so even if your luck was horrible you're practically guaranteed to draw something good eventually.

Well anyway, I don't necessarily think the C'thun strategy is imbalanced, but ONLY if you have access to all the cards. When I watch professional streamers play on Twitch, they can beat it because they have thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of dollars worth of cards available to them. Unfortunately, to those people who don't want to spend their life savings on the game, they'll probably get beat by someone who has spent $50 on a C'thun deck. Hearthstone had such potential but it seems that every "expansion" Blizzard just makes it more luck-based and more pay-to-win. It's kind of sad actually.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on June 02, 2016, 08:03:38 AM
Hearthstone was never really that balanced to begin with. It was, at best, a casual card game. But I think they really drove the last nail in the coffin with the Old Gods expansion. They just straight up killed their own game, which is pretty impressive.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 02, 2016, 12:10:56 PM
I found the article. And he mentions the same problems: It all comes down who draws his C'thun earlier and those types of decks rely on one single card. This is the death of a card game. You cannot center an entire trading card game just around a single card. That's why it's a trading card game, you have a lot of different cards to collect and build your deck from and you can trade them (most TCGs nowadays don't even have this option anymore, including Hearthstone) with other people in order to get the cards you need for your deck while your friend gets the card he needs.n In every TCG there will rise decks with similiar themes but there still will be multiple viable options that don't rely on drawing one single mega overpowered card.

I'm currently into two card games.
One is he recently released "Chrinocle - Runescape Legends", which draws similiar inspirations from Hearthstone. Even the name is directly taken from it. "Hearthstone - Heroes of Warcraft", "Chronicles, Runescape Legends". Chronicles is the card game adaption of the MMO Runescape. But it works very different like any other card game even if it takes some inspirations from Hearthstone. it has also this "class based" deck bullshit, with cards tied to specifics classes. I don't like this kind of system but whatever. It works for this game better as for Hearthstone in my opinion.
Unlike other card games you don't summon monsters and attack your opponent until he is gone. You summon monsters to attack yourself. The whole game offers a simulated roleplay quest, you play your hero, your "legend", who fights with multiple monsters and get gold or other stuff from them. Hecan spend gold on support cards, for example a shop that sells you a weapon. Or you can buy armor. or a healing potion. Stuff like this. There are still cards that directly attack the opponent and some decks/classes are more designed around attacking your opponent directly than others. But the main game follows the pattern that you play five rounds (called chapters in here) and each round you can play up to four cards but you don't have to. You draw only three cards per turn anyway except you have a card that tells you to draw more. You "level" your character over the course of the adventure/match and at the end of the last round both characters, yours and your enemies, will fight each other until one dies. It's a really cool concept that I didn't see before in card games. There have been always card games with some type of RPG mechanic, but this game taes it to a whole new level.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/205890/?snr=1_4_4__tab-PopularNewReleases

The other game is Solforge, which recently got a new client. However, the new client is at this point still a mess. While optically it looks fine, it is not very much playable. It is bugged and when it came out literally nobody could play because the game was extremly slow, lagged and you couldn't even load a single match (the game just redirects you cak to the title screen after a long loading time). They seem to have fixed some of it now, the loading time was reduced but it's still not perfect at this point.
The game itself is however really good. Most cards in the game have three different levels (spells and cards) and when you play a card, you level it up but the leveled up version gets in the discard pile. Every fourth turn your discard pile is shuffeled back into your deck, so now you can raw the leveled up version which is stronger of course. There are four factions in the game, each with its own theme and you can build a deck of any two factions you want. The Alloyin feature tech race that specialises upgrade cards and enhancements on their creatures. They have most of the time a lot of cards with armor that reduces damage.
The Uterra are the "nature" rave, they live in a big underground forest and play animals and plants. They spam the field wit a lot of monsters and have also a lot of healing spells.
The Nekrium are the undead race, they play zombies and ghosts (typically). The zombies spawn most of the time a second time when you kill them. They also have a lot of instant kill and debuff cards. Interesting are the Grimgaunts, a "spectral knight" race that draws power from killed cards.
The Tempys are an elemental race that draws power from ice, fire and lightning. It is a very aggressive race that plays cards that deal a lot of damage but cannot live very long. They try to kill the enemy fast enough before he can play his most powerful cards and most of their spells target the enemy player directly.
There is however the stupid booster card system ont his game that I hate. All previous expansions are put int he same booster pack, so your chance to get cards you want get slimmer with every new expansion. However, you can sell cards you have more than four times (the maximum you can have in a deck of the same card). New expansion booster packs (packs that contain only the newest expansion) are sold for gold only, the premium currency of the game. You cannot gain any gold in-game. New players will have a big problem building the deck they want. also there are regulary card balances and some cards get whole new makeovers. Zimus the Undying is one of the most memorable changes they had. He was a very strong card that couldn't get destroyed anymore after he has reached his final stage. He would always come back after getting killed. He didn't had much HP but he had a lot of attack. Then they changed hit, that he can return only once, so when you kill him twice he is dead for good. People complained that he works now than any other zombie and that it does not fit his name "Undying" so they changed it again back to what it was before but nerfed his damage. A lot. He still is the annoying pest but at least now he cannot kill you alone.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/232450/


Edit: because of the problems with the new Solforge client, the game is now in a "free mode" state. Everything in the store costs now only 1 silver and every purchase made will be reverted when the game got rid of all the problems. So you can basically buy 1000 of packs and test all the cards you want. So if you want to try out the game, now would be the perfect time since you can see and test all cards that are aviable.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Cyborg on June 02, 2016, 09:57:50 PM
I can't understand why people want to play games that require pay to win. Virtually every card game on the market is based around creating "expansions" which are treadmills.

I prefer card games that while still having elements of probability and chance (and understanding those odds is part of the skill), require knowledge and skill to be successful. Such as mah-jongg.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on June 02, 2016, 10:58:43 PM
Basically every single TCG, Magic included, is "pay to win".  You have to buy cards in order to have cards.  That's... kinda how it works.  I mean, of COURSE Hearthstone is going to be like that.  This is the case for both physical and virtual TCGs.  And there's a reason why they're called TCGs, AKA, trading card games.  With the ones that ARENT Hearthstone you're expected to be trading with others to get the cards you want.  Hearthstone replaces this bit with their dust thing, which isn't as good but can still work if used right (though it's still dumb).

And yes, I know that there's a few things like the standalone versions of Magic where you can buy it as a "whole" game outright, but those are always horribly limited.  Other games like that that are bought outright tend to have very limited numbers of cards.

And sure, there are free-to-play games, but those tend to give you cards VERY VERY SLOWLY.


As for requiring skill and knowledge, uh.... they're ALL like that.... Hearthstone may be the most casual, but even that one still requires it (when it's not being unbalanced, that is).  All of the others REALLY require it.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 02, 2016, 11:43:30 PM
Yeah, Hearthstone is real casual compared to most other TCG games, mostly because it is designed around fast and short matches with very basic and easy to learn mechanics.
Magic, whcih after all this years is still the "boss" among card games, is very complex and that may even be the reason why so many are drawn to Hearthstone. hearthstone is easy to play, Magic is tricky and takes a lot of time to learn all the different mechanics and stuff, esspecially since this stuff is NOT explaned directly on the cards itsels. For example flying units. On cards they are only tagged with the word "flying" and if you don't know the rules you wouldn't understand that they can only be attacked by other flying units (or ranged units which are also not explained ont he card itself). On PC versions this is of course a little different since pop-ups explain the different card abilities when you hover over them.

Now about what makes TCGs fun for me. I think mostly the collection aspect and the varity. I like to collect stuff. A lot of stuff. I was a huge fan of Banjo-Kazooie on the good old Nintendo 64 and I wasn't satisfied until I collected every single piece in the game. I remained this behviour when I joined Steam. I collect as many achievments as I can on games. Trading Card Games ae centered around collecting stuff, in this case cards. I buy boosters not because I want strong cards but because I just want NEW cards.
This also combines with varitiy. I need varity in games, I cannot do the same routine every time I play. While you can say card games also are centered around the same gameplay (you start a game, you play cards, you try to decrease your opponent's health points to zero), the matches themself are always different. You don't know what your deck your opponent has or what cards you will draw. This adds to the thrill of the game, not knowing what will happen next. Sometimes you course the randomness because you picked the wrong card from your deck, sometime you draw exactly what you need and are happy.

Then there is the skill requirement that Misery mentioned. How do these type of games require skill when they are luck based on what you get from boosters and what you draw in matches? It's used nt he way that you try to minimize the luck amount you need in a match. You create decks with the little you have. It's not that you need the best cards but use what you have in the best way you know. Putting the rigth cards in your decks will minimize the chance o drawing stuff you don't need. Picking different cards that work perfectly together if you can use them (Synergies) will help you in the later matches. planing your strategy before actual matches can be pretty fun.

However, maybe , Cyborg, you are interested more in this kind of card game: http://store.steampowered.com/app/337150/

Thats the digital adaption of "Sentinels" of the Multiverse", a very popular cooperative card game. It's NOT a trading card because it features no collecting or trading to begin with. The game is also aviable as real card game, not a pc game (if you prefer to play it like this).
The game is really really cool and I can only recommend it. I got it in some bundle and didn't care for over a year because I bought the bundle for something different but when I finally started to play the game I regretted that I ignored the game so long.
The gameplay is a little hard to descripe because it's not a tgc game but behaves similiar to one. In its core its a cooperative game that you play with friends. Each player plays one or more super hero (most heroes are inspired from classic DC and Marvel heroes but were invented for this game) and each hro has his own deck. You cannot modify the deck in any way, the deck has a fixed amount of cards and all cards are tied to that hero. So tehre are no booster packs you can buy, however you can buy complete expansion packs with new decks.
The players figth against a villain, also represented in a deck that was specialy designed to him. The decks represent the abilities and equiment of the heroes and villains they belong to. For example, the hero Absolute Zero creates, like his name assumes, has temperature control abilities, mostly ice (but in some cases also fire). In other words, he can freeze enemies with ice beams. He "absorbs" also all ice damage he would sustain, making him an effective tank and damage dealer.
Players play in turn one card each turn and a power (every hero has a special ability but can also get new powers from played cards), after that they draw a card ( at the END of the turn, not at the start like in other card games). The villain is represented through the game itself, no player controls him. Instead he plays the top card of his card and resolves the effect mentioned there.
The goal ist that the players combine their heroes and defeat the villain together. All villains (ansd also heroes) have a two sides and when the conditions are met, you flip them. Heroes flip when they are defeated and they can use the abilities mentioned there but are not allowed to use any cards anymore, villains get or loose abilities when they flip but flipped villains are not defeated, its just a different form of the same villain. For example the villain "Citizen Dawn" plays a creature oriented deck. She plays a lot of minions on her first turn and adds many more each turn, when you kill too many of them she flips too the other side and is invulnerable until there are enough minions on the field again.
When a player is defeated, he can still play but use only he three abilities mentioned on the backside of his hero card. The game is only lost if ALL heroes are defeated. Some villain decks are stronger/harder than other villains, representing stronger villains of the fictional world in this game.
For additional varity each game is played on a different terrain, the environment. The environment has its own deck and can affect both villains and heroes positivly and negativly. Like the villain it plays itself, just reveal the top card and resolve the effect.

If you have Tabletop Simulator you can play the game on PC without having to buy the digital version, the digital version is however more convenient because it resolves all the effects, buffs and debuffs automatically and you don't have to do all the math in your mind (which can be really painful for the more complex decks in the game).

If you decide to buy the digital version or even the printed version, buy also the expansions. I know I risk getting lectured by chemical_art again that I sound like a bot trying to sell something but in my opinion the true fun of the game starts when you have access to ALL decks of the game, not just 10 (not counting environment and villain decks). The base game however has some really good and interesting hero like Legacy (support hero with a lot of buffing abilities that affect other heroes), Absolute Zero and Visionary (control deck, messes with the villain deck so it's not luck based anymore what the villain draws/plays).
The villains of the base game are however not very interesting, the more interesting ones are n the expansion with unique play styles (I hate and love Spite because he flips the entire concept of the game and makes it to a cat and mouse scenario where he chases after civilians that you have to save).



Okay, long monologue about stuff that people propably won't even read, so I sum it up: TCGs are fun because of collectibles and strategies, Sentinels of the Multiverse removes the entire "pay to win" part of such card games because you have fixed decks and play with other players together instead against them.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on June 03, 2016, 07:13:47 AM
I can't understand why people want to play games that require pay to win.

Every month or so, some expert player creates a fresh account and streams themselves climbing the ladder to legendary without spending a single cent.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 03, 2016, 09:09:34 AM
Show me the source of this. In Hearthstone I don't believe that this would be possible within a month. The amount of cards you would need to be able to pull this off, plus necessary expansions, and lucky legendaries.

This may have been possible in pre-Naxxramus days, because the best cards were available for free, and even a lot of the basic cards were still pretty damn good. Nowadays things are completely different. You couldn't do it.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on June 03, 2016, 09:46:46 AM
Here is one from 2 days ago.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4lw3pp/successful_1month_f2p_run_to_legend_on_asia/
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 03, 2016, 11:32:23 AM
Wingflier, I started playing Duelyst now too. May you give me your player name so I can add you?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on June 03, 2016, 11:35:51 AM
Here is one from 2 days ago.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4lw3pp/successful_1month_f2p_run_to_legend_on_asia/
It's probably due to me not playing HS, but those screenshots prove nothing to me.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on June 03, 2016, 01:08:44 PM
Here is one from 2 days ago.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4lw3pp/successful_1month_f2p_run_to_legend_on_asia/
It's probably due to me not playing HS, but those screenshots prove nothing to me.

If you don't even play it, then what basis do you hold your opinion that Old Gods "killed their own game"?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on June 04, 2016, 07:33:05 AM
Here is one from 2 days ago.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/4lw3pp/successful_1month_f2p_run_to_legend_on_asia/
It's probably due to me not playing HS, but those screenshots prove nothing to me.

It's a standard shaman aggro deck he built free, but 8 and 10 win arena is definitely VERY lucky on his part. He was grinding hard for that, if you play casually this might well take you 6 months.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 04, 2016, 08:12:55 AM
I actually have a few twelve win runs in Arena. One was 12-0.

A lot of it is luck, but some of it is knowing what cards to choose and how to use them. I've probably watched over 100 hours of streamers play the game easily, especially in Arena. Watching ItsHafu specifically was good experience, since she's considered the best Arena player in the world. Also using Heartharena or whatever to build your decks for you made it a hell of a lot easier.

Still, even winning 7 and above in Arena consistently, the grinding was extremely slow. Duelyst is also much better in this regard.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on June 05, 2016, 02:55:47 PM
If you don't even play it, then what basis do you hold your opinion that Old Gods "killed their own game"?
Even though I don't play the game to know all the ins and outs of it, even I, as an outsider, can see how a card like C'thun (and more importantly, his very valuable ally set) will break the game utterly. That's not hard to see even for someone who doesn't play on a daily basis.

I do watch some let's plays now and then because it's still sort of interesting.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on June 06, 2016, 10:16:27 AM
If you don't even play it, then what basis do you hold your opinion that Old Gods "killed their own game"?
Even though I don't play the game to know all the ins and outs of it, even I, as an outsider, can see how a card like C'thun (and more importantly, his very valuable ally set) will break the game utterly. That's not hard to see even for someone who doesn't play on a daily basis.

I do watch some let's plays now and then because it's still sort of interesting.

But C'thun doesn't break the game utterly. You don't know what you are talking about. Most decks don't even use him.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 06, 2016, 11:18:47 AM
Well yeah most decks don't use him because they don't have him 😂

I wouldn't agree with Managamar that he utterly breaks the game. In fact it seems balanced as far as Hearthstone mechanics go. It's just really, really stupid to deal with. And it increases the luck of the game tremendously in a game which is already hilariously luck based to the point of insanity.

 If you get the perfect Cthun setup, it's an auto win, if Cthun is the last card in your deck, it's an auto lose. Or at least it's going to be a hell of a lot harder to win.

It's one thing to be a card game, but there's no competitive card game in the world that's even remotely as luck based as Hearthstone. It's on a whole other level. Magic the Gathering seems tame in comparison. I brought up Duelyst which is extremely similar to HS in many ways but has no luck based cards at all and STILL has plenty of luck involved just in the draw.

Hearthstone just reeks of bad design. I could show you example after endless example of competitive game where one contender outplayed his opponent all game and then lost to something insane like a Doomsayer out of a Shredder or a Dr Balance out of an Unstable Portal or any other combination of nonsense the game can randomly throw at you.

Cthun only adds to this problem, if you can even call it that at this point. It also has the added benefit of being much easier to use than to counter. Because a 20/20 Avenging Wrath is pretty good in every situation, and the cards that build up to it are just as strong or stronger than regular cards. Average players aren't going to know how to handle this because it [email protected] midrange. You either have to kill them quickly with an aggro deck or out control them with tons of removal and even more lategame legendaries.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on June 06, 2016, 11:26:17 AM
Well yeah most decks don't use him because they don't have him 😂

Everyone has him.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 06, 2016, 11:33:39 AM
If you don't even play it, then what basis do you hold your opinion that Old Gods "killed their own game"?
Even though I don't play the game to know all the ins and outs of it, even I, as an outsider, can see how a card like C'thun (and more importantly, his very valuable ally set) will break the game utterly. That's not hard to see even for someone who doesn't play on a daily basis.

I do watch some let's plays now and then because it's still sort of interesting.

But C'thun doesn't break the game utterly. You don't know what you are talking about. Most decks don't even use him.

You mean most decks NOW don't use him. Because when I played Hearthstone when the expansion came out, EVERYONE played decks with him. And with everyone I MEAN everyone. That's the reason why I stopped playing, I was sick of seeing the same deck in every single match.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 06, 2016, 11:58:51 AM
Well yeah most decks don't use him because they don't have him 😂

Everyone has him.
True.
If you don't even play it, then what basis do you hold your opinion that Old Gods "killed their own game"?
Even though I don't play the game to know all the ins and outs of it, even I, as an outsider, can see how a card like C'thun (and more importantly, his very valuable ally set) will break the game utterly. That's not hard to see even for someone who doesn't play on a daily basis.

I do watch some let's plays now and then because it's still sort of interesting.

But C'thun doesn't break the game utterly. You don't know what you are talking about. Most decks don't even use him.

You mean most decks NOW don't use him. Because when I played Hearthstone when the expansion came out, EVERYONE played decks with him. And with everyone I MAEN everyone. That's the reason why I stopped playing, i was sicvk of seening the same deck in every single match.
That seemed to be what the Forbes writer was complaining about as well.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on June 06, 2016, 04:56:46 PM
Well, Hearthstone was designed to be more casual, random and fun. A pick up and go-sort of game. The fact that it has a ranking system boggles me a bit. Even smaller, more obscure games such as Shadow Era has a better balance point than Hearthstone.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 06, 2016, 06:12:28 PM
Well, Hearthstone was designed to be more casual, random and fun. A pick up and go-sort of game. The fact that it has a ranking system boggles me a bit. Even smaller, more obscure games such as Shadow Era has a better balance point than Hearthstone.
forget the ranking system somebody tell me why hearthstone has an esports scene at all seriously are viewers just to lazy to try and learn the mechanics of something actually complex like grey goo or magic for that matter?.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 06, 2016, 06:20:28 PM
It may have been designed as a casual game, but as soon as you're supporting an very lucrative and competitive e-sports side, you need to make the game somewhat balanced for that aspect of it too.

There's literally no difference between competitive and casual Hearthstone whatsoever. No reduction in the ridiculous luck mechanics, no more access to cards for both players so that they're on an even footing, no tournament legal cards like Magic has...nothing. No difference.

So either design the game in such a way that it's competitive from the start (Duelyst), or have special tournament rules that make the mechanics less retarded (Magic the Gathering).

Hearthstone is essentially Magic the Gathering from the early 1990s...being played competitively.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 06, 2016, 06:27:54 PM
It may have been designed as a casual game, but as soon as you're supporting an very lucrative and competitive e-sports side, you need to make the game somewhat balanced for that aspect of it too.

There's literally no difference between competitive and casual Hearthstone whatsoever. No reduction in the ridiculous luck mechanics, no more access to cards for both players so that they're on an even footing, no tournament legal cards like Magic has...nothing. No difference.

So either design the game in such a way that it's competitive from the start (Duelyst), or have special tournament rules that make the mechanics less retarded (Magic the Gathering).

Hearthstone is essentially Magic the Gathering from the early 1990s...being played competitively.
aside from the spectator seeing the bother peoples hands which just makes it less interesting to watch yea pretty much some people are bizarrely try hardy about that game competitively though despite it having the depth of a paddling pool
when I get back my non shitty laptop though I'm going to be playing that rune scape card game that looks pretty sick.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 06, 2016, 06:33:13 PM
o and for that matter don't forget the heroes of the storm esports thing(is that seriously even still going now? id be surprised if it was) that's just a dam joke and apparently people in that scene are rather up their asses amusingly enough at least compared this rather old blog thingy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTZFa9ILJZ0
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 06, 2016, 06:50:14 PM
Heroes of the Storm can be played competitively whatever. It's better than League of Legends at least because you only have to unlock heroes instead of heroes, and masteries, and runes, which altogether would take hundreds of hours easily. Where in HOTS you could have a competitively sized hero pool in 50 hours or less.

Of course DotA is still the best because it's all unlocked from the start, making it the only true competitive moba in my opinion, the others just have it as a tacked on feature to generate extra interest and revenue and HOTS is no exception.

Smite at least you can pay $30 for all the content so maybe I'd include that as well. But yeah, if HOTS wants to be esports, more power to them. At least the game isn't luck based.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 06, 2016, 07:09:00 PM
for sure its easier to get into competitive than league since it doesn't have the runes nonsense (I'm not sure what you mean by masteries its been a billion years since I last played league and I don't remember anything about masteries) id still rather play it than league since it has the interesting talent system and its meta wasn't so rigid as leagues was but If i was so inclined id probably just watch dota instead since its got more complex mechanics (I really have no idea how smite is mechanically compared to its competitors)
btw the main reason I never got into dota or any of the other top down mobas was because I couldn't centre the camera in any of them sounds like a nit pick I know but I simply cant concentrate with that function to keep the camera automatically focused on my camera when I'm not looking around the map.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 06, 2016, 09:49:28 PM
Well, Hearthstone was designed to be more casual, random and fun. A pick up and go-sort of game. The fact that it has a ranking system boggles me a bit. Even smaller, more obscure games such as Shadow Era has a better balance point than Hearthstone.
forget the ranking system somebody tell me why hearthstone has an esports scene at all seriously are viewers just to lazy to try and learn the mechanics of something actually complex like grey goo or magic for that matter?.
because Blizzard creates ALL their games wit the intention of playing competitively and that since they found out that the esport scene is also very lucrative for the developers if they manage this.
Since I don't know what year every game they have released was designed around the fact to be played competiviley. Hearthstone, Diablo 3, Starcraft 2 and now Overwatch. They developed these games with this intention in mind from the beginning.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on June 06, 2016, 11:23:54 PM
Well, Hearthstone was designed to be more casual, random and fun. A pick up and go-sort of game. The fact that it has a ranking system boggles me a bit. Even smaller, more obscure games such as Shadow Era has a better balance point than Hearthstone.
forget the ranking system somebody tell me why hearthstone has an esports scene at all seriously are viewers just to lazy to try and learn the mechanics of something actually complex like grey goo or magic for that matter?.

I'll give my pessimistic and unpleasant answer to that question, which is "yes".

There's the occaisional exception to the rule but for the most part a lot of gamers these days will automatically gravitate towards whatever is easiest.  Irritates me.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on June 07, 2016, 08:25:57 AM
Well, Hearthstone was designed to be more casual, random and fun. A pick up and go-sort of game. The fact that it has a ranking system boggles me a bit. Even smaller, more obscure games such as Shadow Era has a better balance point than Hearthstone.
forget the ranking system somebody tell me why hearthstone has an esports scene at all seriously are viewers just to lazy to try and learn the mechanics of something actually complex like grey goo or magic for that matter?.
because Blizzard creates ALL their games wit the intention of playing competitively and that since they found out that the esport scene is also very lucrative for the developers if they manage this.
Since I don't know what year every game they have released was designed around the fact to be played competiviley. Hearthstone, Diablo 3, Starcraft 2 and now Overwatch. They developed these games with this intention in mind from the beginning.
Please tell me when World of Warcraft gets an esports scene so I can point and laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 07, 2016, 09:13:33 AM
   
not any time soon for sure but considering that hearthstone got an esports scene(I think that was an accident really to be fair to blizzard) then I wouldn't be surprised if wow ended up with one and with all the internet people that try hard over hs then it wouldn't be hard to find people that would do the same with wow.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on June 07, 2016, 09:56:15 AM
Calling these collectible card games e-sport is like calling blackjack a sport....
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 07, 2016, 12:31:01 PM
Calling these collectible card games e-sport is like calling blackjack a sport....
http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/esports/schedule/
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on June 07, 2016, 06:34:13 PM
Calling these collectible card games e-sport is like calling blackjack a sport....
http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/esports/schedule/

My comment aimed at the fact that HS, though blizzard calls it e-sport, isn't an e-sport and will never be one. Just like blackjack will never be olympic. There is way too much random nonsense involved in these games, and as long as HS doesn't have a tournament blacklist for cards it isn't even a proper CARD tournament. ;p
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Cyborg on June 07, 2016, 09:06:28 PM
I thought they did a world of warcraft PVP competitive thing a few years ago.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 07, 2016, 11:06:19 PM
I never played Warcraft but from what I've read, isn't there some kind of "Alliance vs Horde" PvP system in it? So when you meet players from the other faction, you can automatically engage pvp? This sound at least somewhat competitive for me.
PoxNora (a card/tabletop game, not a MMORPG) had a "drums of war" system. When you played decks from one faction and won a game, you raised a bar for your faction. Also the bars from all factions from one alliance (four factions, two alliances) were added together for an alliance bar, the alliance with the higher bar at the end of a season wins something (cards, I guess). All players who contributed to this will win a prize and the faction/race with the most contribution will also get an extra prize.
I imagine the WoW pvp system something like this but maybe without the prizes.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on June 09, 2016, 11:09:39 AM
Having a competitive element =/= viable eSports. Not even close.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 09, 2016, 02:59:40 PM
Gotta agree with Managarmr. Of all the games we've mentioned so far, nothing even comes close to the grindy joke that is "competitive" World of Warcraft. You could spend 5000 hours and probably still not have all the best stuff, because attaining so much of it is just luck based. Hearing the horror stories of people who had run the same dungeon over and over hundreds of times just to find a specific piece of gear, only to have a greedy idiot whose class couldn't even equip the item "Need it", preventing the player who had spent months of raiding from finally attaining it.

Yep, that's WoW for you. At least in the Korean MMOs you can just pay for better gear.

Anyway, all this talk of Hearthstone and watching some of the tournaments lately gave me the craving to play it. So I decided to scratch that itch with Duelyst instead.

I haven't been disappointed. I haven't played it in about 6 months, and coming back, I can already see a LOT of things have changed. They've done some major balance overhauls both with individual cards and core game mechanics which they deemed unsatisfactory.

They've also added some new mechanics which, I must say, are REALLLY f*cking cool, like the new hero powers, plus a second hero for each race. Apparently within the next few weeks they're adding an expansion called "The 7 Sisters" which adds a 3rd female hero character with its own ability to each class. I'm really excited. I don't think it's going to be like HS expansions that you pay for, most likely everyone will be receiving the new heroes for free. Here they are:

(https://duelyst-forums.s3.amazonaws.com/66958486b10da1411cc9cdd102edaecb824f18c409fd.png)

Well anyway, Duelyst is an amazing game. They're still working out some balance kinks but overall I still love the no-nonsense style in which luck plays such a minor part as compared to other games like HS that are fun but absolutely ruined by luck.

Wingflier, I started playing Duelyst now too. May you give me your player name so I can add you?
It's Wingflier, go ahead.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 10, 2016, 01:29:37 PM
Omg. Remember that card Dr. Boom everyone has been complaining about since the dawn of time? It was  quite obviously overpowered and pretty much everyone was begging Blizzard for over a year to do something... anything about it.

Well they finally did boys. They removed it from the game! Lololololol

What a solution. They also made Big Game Hunter which nobody was even complaining about from 3 mana to 5 mana without changing any of its stats. In other words they also removed that from the game.

You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried. I'm so glad I quit playing when I did.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mick on June 10, 2016, 02:21:32 PM
Omg. Remember that card Dr. Boom everyone has been complaining about since the dawn of time? It was  quite obviously overpowered and pretty much everyone was begging Blizzard for over a year to do something... anything about it.

Well they finally did boys. They removed it from the game! Lololololol

What a solution. They also made Big Game Hunter which nobody was even complaining about from 3 mana to 5 mana without changing any of its stats. In other words they also removed that from the game.

You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried. I'm so glad I quit playing when I did.

Don't see the problem. Both fantastic changes.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 10, 2016, 03:59:38 PM
It's not a fantastic change to take a problematic card and just remove it from the game. Why not just balance it for heaven's sake? Just a few months ago, Dr. Boom was the single most important Legendary worth crafting. People spent their time and money to craft him, even to make him golden. Then they removed him from the game?

There were so many suggestions on how to balance him. Give him only one boom bot. Have the boom bots do 1-2 damage instead of 1-4. Have the boom bots hit truly random targets instead of enemy targets only. Make him an 8 drop. There were hundreds of community suggestions on how to make him balanced, so why remove him from the game?

And Blizzard has a history of doing this. Undertaker, Warsong Commander, and countless others. Now BGH? What ever happened to iterative balance. Increase his mana cost to 4 and see if it's still playable. But increasing it by 2 with no stat changes? You may as well have taken it out of the game.

The very nature of counter cards is that they cost less than the card they're countering. That's the whole point, otherwise why have them at all? Well Shaman can now play a 7/7 for a smaller mana cost than the "counter"!

Maybe it's just my personal opinion, but I do not respect this kind of game design.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 10, 2016, 04:04:25 PM
It's not a fantastic change to take a problematic card and just remove it from the game. Why not just balance it for heaven's sake? Just a few months ago, Dr. Boom was the single most important Legendary worth crafting. People spent their time and money to craft him, even to make him golden. Then they removed him from the game?

There were so many suggestions on how to balance him. Give him only one boom bot. Have the boom bots do 1-2 damage instead of 1-4. Have the boom bots hit truly random targets instead of enemy targets only. Make him an 8 drop. There were hundreds of community suggestions on how to make him balanced, so why remove him from the game?

And Blizzard has a history of doing this. Undertaker, Warsong Commander, and countless others. Now BGH? What ever happened to iterative balance. Increase his mana cost to 4 and see if it's still playable. But increasing it by 2 with no stat changes? You may as well have taken it out of the game.

The very nature of counter cards is that they cost less than the card they're countering. That's the whole point, otherwise why have them at all? Well Shaman can now play a 7/7 for a smaller mana cost than the "counter"!

Maybe it's just my personal opinion, but I do not respect this kind of game design.
I was just about to say this exact same thing but you beat me to it
but blizzard have always been terrible at balancing that game
back in the sort of beta ish days did you know that green skin gave you card draw every time you swung his weapon which was super sick and made very much worth using and then they changed him to what he is now which is terrible and pretty not in the game at all
and yea warsong god that just makes me depressed all they had to do was limit his charge giving and that's literally it instead of making him complete shit tier.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 12, 2016, 12:32:48 PM
Apparently you get about 100 gold a day for playing Duelyst, which is the price of a pack.

Each quest is worth ~25 and the first win of the day is 25, plus you get an extra 15 for every 2 games you win. So by the time everything's said and done it's at least a pack a day, more if you play a lot.

Seems pretty fair. It does kinda suck that opening up packs is so random but obviously you can at least use the dust of duplicates to build the cards you want. I'm having a hard time deciding which Legendaries to craft next. The neutral Legendaries can obviously be used with any deck but the class Legendaries are sooo good...
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 12, 2016, 03:52:25 PM
Apparently you get about 100 gold a day for playing Duelyst, which is the price of a pack.

Each quest is worth ~25 and the first win of the day is 25, plus you get an extra 15 for every 2 games you win. So by the time everything's said and done it's at least a pack a day, more if you play a lot.

Seems pretty fair. It does kinda suck that opening up packs is so random but obviously you can at least use the dust of duplicates to build the cards you want. I'm having a hard time deciding which Legendaries to craft next. The neutral Legendaries can obviously be used with any deck but the class Legendaries are sooo good...
there's also the solo challenges which have become a thing since I last played pretty much what you might expect(about 5 ranks of challenges with 5 in each having you play a different faction achieving a win in one turn in each) except you get gold for beating these as well (not much 5 to 10 but considering you'd probably want to do these regardless though if your trying to come back to and get properly invested in it like my self there still a nice add on)
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 13, 2016, 03:07:25 PM
The problems with the Solforge client have been fixed. The game runs now really smooth and fast, faster than the old version (before the client change).
There are still some features missing, they removed legendary chests (100.000 silver, always contains a legendary card), you get however a free legendary chest when you log in before wednesday. You also get double rewards this week (double booster packs, double silver, double silver).
It seems they have increased the chance of obtaining rare cards, I got more legendaries from my booster packs than before.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on June 13, 2016, 04:04:49 PM
Solforge? (Looked at the most recent video on their site, to call that art style "horribly bland" would be an understatement) I mean, when you have HS and Duelyst to contend with, you better have it look more polished than 2 dudes throwing gifs at each other.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 13, 2016, 05:43:46 PM
I really don't care about the art style very much to be honest. It's not like this is the most important part of a card game.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on June 13, 2016, 07:21:38 PM
I really don't care about the art style very much to be honest. It's not like this is the most important part of a card game.

But MP card games live and thrive when they gain mass appeal since otherwise you won't find decent match-making in them (what annoyed me to no end in Duelyst, playing same guy 6 times and losing because my decks aren't gonna change in between random games is NOT fun). And you won't get that when you have a card game that looks like a flash game and doesn't seem to have any interesting gameplay depth.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 13, 2016, 07:46:24 PM
That is probably right. Can you show me the video you meant?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on June 13, 2016, 07:59:27 PM
That is probably right. Can you show me the video you meant?

One of them ones here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR8Kdr95a7Pb61GGNINDr9Q
I assume that's a dev?...

And by the way, Duelyst only changed this match-making issue VERY recently. So yeah, might give it a try again...
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 15, 2016, 07:46:54 AM
I grew up playing Final Fantasy Tactics. It was one of the favorite games of my childhood. We used to rent Playstation games from the local Blockbuster (wow, blast from the past right?). I rented it and re-rented it so many times, my mom in exasperation finally just got it for me (I don't remember how much it cost, probably $30 at the local Toys R' Us).

For some reason I never got into Fire Emblem, though I had a cousin who did, and I had heard it was really good. But anyway, I've been wanting to scratch that FFT itch for a very long time. And surprisingly, in 15+ years, nobody has been able to do it for me. FFT was such a unique game. To my knowledge it was the first blend of RPG and Tabletop tactics in digital format ever made. It was a masterpiece.

And yet, so many years later, any games which even remotely symbolize it are either locked behind massive paywalls, badly designed, abandonware, or any other combination of problems which has led to a severe disappoint for a lot of people I think.

Well anyway, Duelyst is the closest I've come to finding that game. Apparently, when it was announced as Kickstarter game, it was supposed to be a tabletop tactics type game, with all the content unlocked after purchase. Yet somehow, through a series of design decisions that I wasn't there for, it kind of became a card game with turn-based tactical elements.

This is a bit of a tl;dr, so you can skip it if you want but this is important. It's from a post on the Duelyst subreddit yesterday called "Broken promises and loss of identity: current Duelyst compared to its original Kickstarter" (https://www.reddit.com/r/duelyst/comments/4o0ljs/broken_promises_and_loss_of_identity_current/):

The "Early Beginnings" section might reveal the secret: Duelyst started as a tactical miniature game played on a board with dice. If you've played D&D or another pen and paper RPG, you know what we're talking about: during the combat phases (or "random encounters", if you will) you move your hero on a board and fight monsters.

From the descriptions and the photos included, it looks like they stripped the roleplay bit and only focused on a hero units supported by other units, refining the gameplay to streamline it and keep it fast and to the point. Notice in the photos how no one is holding cards, and it seems like you would have been able to build your squad on the spot without having to "draw" the units.

Let's keep reading the list of features: "Our goal is to vigilantly remove every extraneous feature from the game to focus on its heart and soul: squad-based tactical combat". This confirms what explained above: by extraneous features, they probably mean the roleplay and collecting loot bit. Just build your army and go to battle, and the way you build your army is also explained." Business Model: Every battle unit and spell is earned by spending time playing the game. As a result, this is NOT pay-to-win!"

While collecting money for boosters can certainly be done by just playing, and the gold and drop rates are generous, notice how nowhere it mentions the fact that the units and spells are on cards that you have to get by opening packs at random. In fact, some comments from backers lament the fact that Duelyst wasn't even supposed to be a free to play game, but rather a retail-priced game with all units unlocked through progression. So what about the game itself?

"Skill-Based Tactical Combat: The emphasis is on unit positioning, understanding your squad's abilities, anticipating your opponent's capabilities, and maintaining board control. At it's core, it's a tactical tabletop board game without all the manual math calculations."

Duelyst started as skirmish combat game similar to tabletop tactical combat. Looking at the preview gifs in the page shows it clearly: the sheer amount of units on the board could probably never be accomplished in the current version of the game, and there are AoE spells that target clusters of enemies, or spells that go around said enemies to target the general directly instead. All this showcases handling multiple units at the time and taking advantage of positioning.

The word "card" isn't used once in the entire page. Or "deck", for that matter. The word "ccg" is used once, in reference to the resource pool (mana) and not to describe the gameplay.
So what's so wrong about card games? Nothing, and they can be loads of fun. And pre-patch Duelyst somehow found a way to incorporate some elements of card games into its core tactical miniature gameplay. Having your units in a deck and drawing them made it more unpredictable compared to a simple "place the units from the start", but the draw 2 replace function mitigated said unpredictability to make it more consistent with your gameplan and less reliant on topdeck RNG.

Making the game free to play and using boosters to get units rather than going full price retail also made sense in a competitive market where a lot of indie games struggle to be recognized. As a business model it was probably more sustainable, and it was not as aggressive for the consumer as many other free to play games. And the randomness of opening packs is undeniably appealing.
As an hybrid of tactical squad gameplay and ccg elements, Duelyst just hit the right spot in the middle, using elements of both to deliver an extremely unique game. Sure, there were some balance problems in overtuned or underwhelming cards, but nothing fundamentally broken.

But something shifted from this original design, and gradually Duelyst lost its root of tactical squad game with some ccg elements to transition into a full-blown card game, except on a board.

Of course I didn't know about any of this until I read it. But basically, I think I would have liked Duelyst a lot more as it was originally designed to be, a Tabletop game with miniatures in digital format focusing purely on skill and tactics, and not the quality of a player's cards. It seems it copied the Hearthstone model, which from a business standpoint is probably extremely lucrative, but from a design standpoint...eh not so much. I still really like it, and I still think it's the best replacement for FFT I've discovered so far, but it's sad because I feel it could have been so much more.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Logorouge on June 15, 2016, 04:01:31 PM
I still really like it, and I still think it's the best replacement for FFT I've discovered so far, but it's sad because I feel it could have been so much more.
I take it the goofy Disgaea series didn't do it for you? :P
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 15, 2016, 04:52:55 PM
I still really like it, and I still think it's the best replacement for FFT I've discovered so far, but it's sad because I feel it could have been so much more.
I take it the goofy Disgaea series didn't do it for you? :P
Uh no. I've already made a post about my feelings concerning games with 10 billion sequels. Also the near-infinite level cap, and just the sheer amount of grinding.

To me it essentially seemed to be the Korean MMO equivalent to the FFT genre.

Just no.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 15, 2016, 06:12:11 PM
Have you actually played Final Fantasy tactics Advance? It was some kind of pseudo-sequel to the game. However, I found some of the features not really pleasant to play with but maybe your experience may differ from mine.

I think "Yu-gi-Oh Capsule Monsters Colloseum" is pretty good and somewhat colse to FFT. However, the game is really short and the story non-existent. I like however the fusion and evolution system but it's hard to figure out what the requirement for each monster are.
Also, don't get confused about the tag "Yu-gi-oh". The game uses just the background and characters from the series, it does not use any rules of the actual card game ( or is a card game to begin with).
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 16, 2016, 06:09:52 AM
Yeah I did play it actually. I wasn't super impressed. The thing was the laws was really annoying, it's too bad I couldn't take my anger out on the judges.

"Look ref, that guy's cheating! *BLAM*"

Also the way they tied the classes to the weapons was...annoying. Also the story was really silly and the theme was kind of childish and cartoony.

I had once heard the FFT story described as modern Shakespearian Tragedy, and it was. That story was deep, complex, and it pulled at your heartstring at every turn. It was like Game of Thrones before GoT was a thing because no character was safe, people were dying left and right; even committing suicide at times. It was dark.

-------

In other news, the new Duelyst patch (7 sisters) has been released (https://news.duelyst.com/duelyst-patch-1-66/). It's pretty cool. It adds 7 legendaries to the game and basically gives them all to you for free. I've already started crafting some neat decks with them.

There were some balance changes as well. Man, that's one thing I love about Duelyst. If a card receives changes at all, you get a FULL PRICE refund on the dust if you don't want it anymore. Man that's just so damn epic. I don't think Blizz would do that with Hearthstone in a million years. After he was removed from the regular mode, can you imagine how many people would have decrafted Dr. Boom for full price if given the opportunity? It would have caused a frenzy of people trying to get their money back on the level of the events leading up to the Great Depression.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 16, 2016, 04:37:32 PM
So I just reached Gold Rank in Duelyst. I've actually done it before so it's not a big accomplishment or anything, but this came after opening 25 card packs yesterday, and the 7 Sisters expansion being released, which allowed me to create some pretty awesome decks that weren't available to me before.

(http://i.imgur.com/K4PIKBP.jpg)

Yes, that is a Mechaz0r in the background. I make no apologies :D

I could make even better decks were all the cards available to me so that's kind of a bummer, but at this point I'm getting like 150-200 gold a day, so it shouldn't take long to hopefully build everything I want. Well not EVERYTHING I want, because my creativity is basically endless; but everything I've wanted to build for a long time kind of thing.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 16, 2016, 06:54:00 PM
so I finally gave this a proper play and I think I'm love with it (: its got the sort of play I like from hs expect instead of the wacky try hardy bullshit it has actual interesting mechanics like for instance blast now THATS an interesting ability but does anybody else think its a bit weak sauce? particularly since you don't seem to be able to go diagonally?
the shadow watcher seems really power full if you can get going with the number token numbers
and something I discovered to my amusement is that giving scions second wish on a provoke creature and then putting it next to the enemy general makes it impossible for him to do anything provided he cant kill it with a spell and that you can deal with any creatures he throws out.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: KingIsaacLinksr on June 17, 2016, 04:17:31 PM
Hmm, think I'll add Duelyst to the queue to play. I'm looking for something post Hearthstone and have been poking around in Chronicle: Runescape Legends but it's not pushing the right buttons for me.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 17, 2016, 04:32:40 PM
Hmm, think I'll add Duelyst to the queue to play. I'm looking for something post Hearthstone and have been poking around in Chronicle: Runescape Legends but it's not pushing the right buttons for me.
id absolutely recommend it so far it seems better balanced and is giving me the chance to buy packs at a fair frequency but just as a warning if you get into a match with an abyssian and they get a shadow watcher kill that thing hard those things can ramp up endless ley given the chance.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on June 17, 2016, 04:33:22 PM
Hmm, think I'll add Duelyst to the queue to play. I'm looking for something post Hearthstone and have been poking around in Chronicle: Runescape Legends but it's not pushing the right buttons for me.
I'm curious as to why it isn't. I was kinda interested in that game, just because of how different it was. For CCGs I have Shadow Era. Don't need anything else.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 17, 2016, 04:37:58 PM
Hmm, think I'll add Duelyst to the queue to play. I'm looking for something post Hearthstone and have been poking around in Chronicle: Runescape Legends but it's not pushing the right buttons for me.
I don't think you'll regret it, if you liked Hearthstone. From my perspective it's better in pretty much every conceivable way. Of course I recognize that as just my opinion, but I think there are some pseudo-objective standards most players use which may lead to the same conclusion.

Standards such as less grindy, less luck-based, more strategy, more depth, greater number of options, more available classes, things like that.

Hell, just the ability to swap out a card each turn makes it vastly less luck-based than Hearthstone. In HS if your hand sucks, and you can't draw into anything you need, it's really tough to win. That situation still happens in Duelyst, but fairly rarely in comparison. Most the time when I lose, I just feel outplayed. That's a good feeling to have after playing HS for so long.

One thing I will say is that, just like HS, it's grindy to get a deck worthy of being played competitively. But if you don't care about that and are just playing for fun, the things you start with are more than enough to craft a pretty strong deck. Also the people you'll be playing against will more or less have the same options as you starting out.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 17, 2016, 04:45:14 PM
Hmm, think I'll add Duelyst to the queue to play. I'm looking for something post Hearthstone and have been poking around in Chronicle: Runescape Legends but it's not pushing the right buttons for me.
id absolutely recommend it so far it seems better balanced and is giving me the chance to buy packs at a fair frequency but just as a warning if you get into a match with an abyssian and they get a shadow watcher kill that thing hard those things can ramp up endless ley given the chance.
Make sure you have some Dispel in every deck you create. Dispel (Silence in HS) is a key component that should be present in every deck. Here is a short explanation and list of cards which contain it.

http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Dispel

I would recommend just running 3 Ephemeral Shrouds in each deck. For their cost their stats are decent, and the ability to dispel is invaluable against almost every opponent.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: KingIsaacLinksr on June 17, 2016, 05:05:37 PM
Hmm, think I'll add Duelyst to the queue to play. I'm looking for something post Hearthstone and have been poking around in Chronicle: Runescape Legends but it's not pushing the right buttons for me.
I'm curious as to why it isn't. I was kinda interested in that game, just because of how different it was. For CCGs I have Shadow Era. Don't need anything else.

I think it's because I haven't gotten enough cards to do crazy combos yet. I have only put in about 4 hours and haven't paid for anything so maybe as I get more cards, more interesting things come up. Don't get me wrong, I really like the entire campaign section. I just don't think I've gotten the cards for some crazy stories just yet.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: KingIsaacLinksr on June 17, 2016, 05:10:19 PM

One thing I will say is that, just like HS, it's grindy to get a deck worthy of being played competitively. But if you don't care about that and are just playing for fun, the things you start with are more than enough to craft a pretty strong deck. Also the people you'll be playing against will more or less have the same options as you starting out.

*shrug* Competitive decks aren't in my interest right now. As I'm not really willing to put money into these games yet, it doesn't bother me if my deck in these games are pretty substandard out the gate. What I'm looking for is something that let's me be creative with deck building without it feeling like the game is actively punishing me for trying to "break the meta" (Hearthstone).

Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 17, 2016, 05:18:27 PM

One thing I will say is that, just like HS, it's grindy to get a deck worthy of being played competitively. But if you don't care about that and are just playing for fun, the things you start with are more than enough to craft a pretty strong deck. Also the people you'll be playing against will more or less have the same options as you starting out.

*shrug* Competitive decks aren't in my interest right now. As I'm not really willing to put money into these games yet, it doesn't bother me if my deck in these games are pretty substandard out the gate. What I'm looking for is something that let's me be creative with deck building without it feeling like the game is actively punishing me for trying to "break the meta" (Hearthstone).
My experience with Duelyst has been pretty positive in that regard.

The thing is, they aren't afraid to nerf problem cards into balance. And when they do, any copies of that card you own, you can refund for full dust for a week, so it's a win/win for the game and the players.

One of the reasons HS had such a static meta was that these obviously overpowered cards just stay in within the game forever, and you're pretty much forced to build decks around them to win. Blizzard, instead of fighting this trend has actually embraced it with the C'Thun expansion and such, which shows that this is how they want their game to be designed.

In Duelyst I feel like they do a pretty good job of trying to keep everything within reason, and for that reason alone you have a big license for creativity because it's less about what cards you use, and more about how you make them work together.

I'd recommend using the Starter Decks for a week or two, then once you get a handle on the game (and some packs), you can start coming up with ideas of your own. The Challenges are also a good place to start because they teach you the game and reward you with gold to buy more packs.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 17, 2016, 05:19:53 PM
Hmm, think I'll add Duelyst to the queue to play. I'm looking for something post Hearthstone and have been poking around in Chronicle: Runescape Legends but it's not pushing the right buttons for me.
id absolutely recommend it so far it seems better balanced and is giving me the chance to buy packs at a fair frequency but just as a warning if you get into a match with an abyssian and they get a shadow watcher kill that thing hard those things can ramp up endless ley given the chance.
Make sure you have some Dispel in every deck you create. Dispel (Silence in HS) is a key component that should be present in every deck. Here is a short explanation and list of cards which contain it.

http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Dispel

I would recommend just running 3 Ephemeral Shrouds in each deck. For their cost their stats are decent, and the ability to dispel is invaluable against almost every opponent.
true but if your opponent is unlucky enough to not have dispel in his deck(like my self actually sometime during today or tomorrow I need to redesign my abyssian deck trying to make a rush down deck is pretty hard when you've got limited cards tends to be a bit miserable for now I should probably just stick to straight efficiency based decks in till I've got a large collection) I say this as some one who's been playing abyssian a lot it always amuses me how they are straight up invincible to 1 attack enemy's(apart from with persifick effects of course) but its interesting that this game minions with the dullest version of silence actually have solid stats almost like the games balanced so that minions don't have to be use less to be balanced.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Logorouge on June 17, 2016, 05:34:43 PM
One thing I will say is that, just like HS, it's grindy to get a deck worthy of being played competitively. But if you don't care about that and are just playing for fun, the things you start with are more than enough to craft a pretty strong deck. Also the people you'll be playing against will more or less have the same options as you starting out.

Duelyst sounds like a game I could enjoy immensely, but the above is the part that has me worried. The main reason I gave up on HS is because if I wanted to gain new cards at a reasonable pace, I had to play Arena (aka not my deck) or bring out the credit card. After the initial burst of gold, being limited to a handful of duplicate cards per day and maybe a new card every other day is just not fast enough for me. Is this the case for Duelyst?

To be clear, I wouldn't be playing to be competitive at all. The fun for me is to rebuild my deck over and over with new cards and testing different card combos. That's why getting stuck with the same deck for weeks or months just wouldn't do it for me.


Edit: Further research revealed that Duelyst might indeed be more... generous with freeloading newbies. :P
        Another question: Before I start playing, is there a referral code from one of you guys I can input?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 17, 2016, 08:25:21 PM
One thing I will say is that, just like HS, it's grindy to get a deck worthy of being played competitively. But if you don't care about that and are just playing for fun, the things you start with are more than enough to craft a pretty strong deck. Also the people you'll be playing against will more or less have the same options as you starting out.

Duelyst sounds like a game I could enjoy immensely, but the above is the part that has me worried. The main reason I gave up on HS is because if I wanted to gain new cards at a reasonable pace, I had to play Arena (aka not my deck) or bring out the credit card. After the initial burst of gold, being limited to a handful of duplicate cards per day and maybe a new card every other day is just not fast enough for me. Is this the case for Duelyst?

To be clear, I wouldn't be playing to be competitive at all. The fun for me is to rebuild my deck over and over with new cards and testing different card combos. That's why getting stuck with the same deck for weeks or months just wouldn't do it for me.


Edit: Further research revealed that Duelyst might indeed be more... generous with freeloading newbies. :P
        Another question: Before I start playing, is there a referral code from one of you guys I can input?
Yeah, if you use the referral code Wingflier (my name), I guess it'll start you out with some extra gold and benefit both of us.

Like I said, Duelyst certainly isn't perfect when it comes to the 'grinding' aspect, but it seems pretty fair. Of course if it were up to me, I'd just buy the game and have all the cards unlocked, but that's not how these blasted models operate.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Toranth on June 17, 2016, 09:43:19 PM
Yeah, if you use the referral code Wingflier (my name), I guess it'll start you out with some extra gold and benefit both of us.

Like I said, Duelyst certainly isn't perfect when it comes to the 'grinding' aspect, but it seems pretty fair. Of course if it were up to me, I'd just buy the game and have all the cards unlocked, but that's not how these blasted models operate.
There's a referral system?  Drat.  You convinced me to try it out, and I started playing yesterday.  Is there any way to add a referrer later?

Anyways, so far I'm mostly enjoying myself.  Played too long last night (this morning?) and got all the factions to level 12-13.  Did all the challenges and starter quests and such, too.  So now my only way to earn gold is by winning matches.

And that's where I'm annoyed.

I'm decent at these sorts of games.  I played Magic a LOT, and TRPGs are one of my favorite types of games, so I feel right at home with most of the mechanics.  But since I won a lot, I quickly found myself in the Silver ranking.  And now I'm doing 50% wins at best, because my "enhanced" starter decks just don't have the cards to compete.  And it's not the Legendaries or Epics, either.  It's just the non-default commons: the extra creature removals, efficient enhancements, more versatile dispels.  I just opened another pack before coming back to this thread, and it was an excellent pack!  An Epic, a Legendary, and 3 commons.  The three commons went instantly into my decks, while the Epic and Legendary are sitting around in reserve.

I understand they're F2P, and packs are how they make money.  But I'll agree with you:  If I could just pay a reasonable price to buy the game and all the cards unlocked (or even just 90%-ish of them!) I'd prefer that.  So, I'll probably play it 30min or an hour a day for the next month or three, doing nothing but the daily quests and getting the bonuses, until my decks are up to snuff, and I can compete with mid- to upper-ranked Silver, at least.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Logorouge on June 17, 2016, 10:24:05 PM
There's a referral system?  Drat.  You convinced me to try it out, and I started playing yesterday.  Is there any way to add a referrer later?
In the settings menu, I found a "Redeem referral code" button. It might not be too late.

I'm having a helluva fun time. So glad I happen to read this thread. :)
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 18, 2016, 02:03:19 AM
Quote
I'm decent at these sorts of games.  I played Magic a LOT, and TRPGs are one of my favorite types of games, so I feel right at home with most of the mechanics.  But since I won a lot, I quickly found myself in the Silver ranking.  And now I'm doing 50% wins at best, because my "enhanced" starter decks just don't have the cards to compete.  And it's not the Legendaries or Epics, either.  It's just the non-default commons: the extra creature removals, efficient enhancements, more versatile dispels.  I just opened another pack before coming back to this thread, and it was an excellent pack!  An Epic, a Legendary, and 3 commons.  The three commons went instantly into my decks, while the Epic and Legendary are sitting around in reserve.
For someone with a basic amount of cards, but still wanting to compete in Silver and probably make it to Gold, I would recommend Kara Winterblade of Vanar. The thing is, with her ability to buff every minion in your action bar for 1 mana, she can create an insurmountable amount of value that your opponents will find nearly impossible to deal with, even if they technically have better cards. In addition, Vanar has some of the best class removal spells in Chromatic Cold and Aspect of the Fox; both of which you get for free.

Here's a sample example deck I built at a glance:

(http://duelystdb.com/landscape/029cc934daac45d89dc20fef93156d93.png)

Here's a link (http://duelystdb.com/squad/community_decks?build=Mzo1MDMsMzo1MDUsMTo1MjcsMzoxMDAxMiwzOjEwMDIwLDM6MTAyMDcsMzoxMDk1OSwzOjEwOTc4LDM6MTA5ODEsMzoxOTAyNywzOjE5MDUyLDM6MjAxMzQsMzoyMDE0NCwzOjMwMDE1) to it with a lot more detailed information.

The only non-basic card in there is Dancing Blades, of which there are 3. It's a common card, and it's one of the best cards in the game, it fits into almost any deck, so I would recommend crafting it if you don't have them already. It's cheap and spirit well spent. It also creates one of the best combos in the game. Aspect of the Fox turns any enemy minion into a 3/3 wolf with no abilities. If you use that plus a Dancing Blades, you will kill any enemy instantly, no matter how powerful they are, while putting a 4/6 body on the board. It's one of the most devastating power swings in the game.

With Chromatic Cold and Ephemeral Shroud x3 you'll have 6 dispels, which is more than enough to deal with most provokes, deathwatch, dying wish, etc.

The key to using the deck correctly is to try and use your ultimate ability every time it's off cooldown. That way, the value of your minions just keeps increasing and increasing exponentially, and when you finally play them, the opponent will be unable to deal with the raw stats being thrown at them.

Try buffing your Saberspine Tiger as many times as you can before using him. A 4/3 or 5/4 with Rush for 3 mana is freaking scary. Use it to destroy problem minions or finish off the enemy commander.

Of course these are all basic cards, with the exception of Dancing Blades, so you can make some replacements since I'm sure you'll have quite a few cards that aren't. However, many basic cards are some of the best cards in the game, so it's not really necessary either. A deck like that should work fine.

edit: Made some deck changes to better reflect the current meta, links and explanation updated.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: KingIsaacLinksr on June 18, 2016, 06:07:58 AM
I used you as a referral Wingflier, so there you go :).
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 18, 2016, 08:42:28 AM
Thanks man!

By the way, check out this article (http://kotaku.com/duelyst-has-some-of-the-best-character-art-youll-see-1782133621) that Kotaku wrote about Duelyst. Pretty neat.

For the record, I just edited my original "basic card" Vanar deck to better reflect the current metagame. All I did was swap out the Repulsor Beasts for Saberspine Tigers, while updating the picture and the explanation.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Toranth on June 18, 2016, 11:27:41 AM
Unfortunately, it says you can't add a Referrer if you've already player a ranked game.  Sorry :(

I tried your suggest deck, with some mods - I still don't have any Dancing Blades (and yes, they've been used to good effect against me, so I want some), and I don't like the Stormmetal Golem.  So I replaced those with the Repulsor Beasts and 1x High Hand, 1x Razorback, 1x Exun because I had them sitting around.
It's interesting to play; not my normal style.  I normally play very aggressively, but this deck needs to delay those summons just a little... but not too long.  The Saberspine Tigers work great with this deck - dropping a 5/4 Rush into play has caused more than a few emoticons these last dozen games or so.   >D

The deck I've been having some success with is a ranged Songhai using Reva.  Nothing special in there yet, but the combination of Ranged and Provoke seems to confuse some players.
I don't think it'll work too long in the upper rankings, though, as it is very vulnerable to DD/AoE and dispels.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 18, 2016, 12:03:54 PM
Can you trade cards int his game? Because I have dancing swords but I don't use them.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 18, 2016, 12:49:06 PM
Quote
The deck I've been having some success with is a ranged Songhai using Reva.  Nothing special in there yet, but the combination of Ranged and Provoke seems to confuse some players.
I don't think it'll work too long in the upper rankings, though, as it is very vulnerable to DD/AoE and dispels.
You may be surprised actually. The metagame isn't ranged right now, and so people aren't bringing a lot of counters to that.

Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 18, 2016, 01:04:50 PM
The easiest and most logical counter to ranged is flying. Because no matter where you spawn these minions, you can move them always difectrly to the ranged minions. or, of course, get some ranged minions yourself.
However, I think it is impossible to make a deck that is prepared for every type deck, that's just how these kinds of games work. You cannot make the perfect deck, there will be a deck that coutners yours and creating a protection against other decks means you weaken your stratetgy combination.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 18, 2016, 02:11:30 PM
Yeah, it's often a good idea, after playing a few games, using a deck to counter what you're seeing at the moment. This can change heavily based on the time of day or just what ranking you're at.

For example, if you're seeing a lot of Provoke, bring extra dispels. If you're seeing a lot of minion swarm, bring a ton of aoe. If you're experiencing a lot of ranged, bring Crossbones (instantly destroys ranged minion), or bring ranged direct damage spells/flying, like Vampire said. It's often an exercise in beating your head against the wall when the deck you're using keeps getting beaten over and over. It may not be a bad deck, it's just bad against the daily metagame.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 18, 2016, 07:02:20 PM
Does shadow creep affect both players or only the enemy of the owner?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 18, 2016, 10:47:31 PM
Allied Shadow Creep only affects enemies
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 18, 2016, 11:13:26 PM
Okay, good to know, I always hesitated because I thought it would affect both players. I will proceed to building a shadow creep deck, woo!
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 19, 2016, 03:04:17 AM
Allied Shadow Creep only affects enemies
I didn't think that could be a thing just didn't seem like a lot of minions(barely any from the abyssians unless there's more from neutral) I think I'm going to see If there's any matches I can watch using this deck out of curiosity
but just a quick question first I've encountered in my travels generals using bloodbornes that are different to what that general should have
what's up with that?! I haven't seen any mention of generals getting alternate versions of their activatables pretty much any were.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 19, 2016, 07:35:16 AM
Allied Shadow Creep only affects enemies
I didn't think that could be a thing just didn't seem like a lot of minions(barely any from the abyssians unless there's more from neutral) I think I'm going to see If there's any matches I can watch using this deck out of curiosity
but just a quick question first I Most Certainly Have encountered in my travels generals using bloodbornes that are different to what that general should have
what's up with that?! I haven't seen any mention of generals getting alternate versions of their activatables pretty much any were.
Here's a complete list of Duelyst Generals: http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Generals

Each class has 2 generals, the second one which you unlock at level 11. I don't know if that's ever explained very well, but I suppose the player would find out on their own pretty quickly (it only takes an hour or so to reach level 11 with a class).

----

So the basic deck I posted on the forum has been working pretty well so far. I started a new account just to test it out and I made it to Silver in a couple hours without much trouble.

I threw in a few Sojourners (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Sojourner) when I could afford them. IMO Sojourners are a really great card, good statwise and even better because Kara Winterblade (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Kara_Winterblade) can buff them up, giving you both card draw and decent damage in a single card. Also, the more cards you have in your action bar, the more value Kara's class ability grants you. Pretty sick.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 19, 2016, 10:40:06 AM
Allied Shadow Creep only affects enemies
I didn't think that could be a thing just didn't seem like a lot of minions(barely any from the abyssians unless there's more from neutral) I think I'm going to see If there's any matches I can watch using this deck out of curiosity
but just a quick question first I Most Certainly Have encountered in my travels generals using bloodbornes that are different to what that general should have
what's up with that?! I haven't seen any mention of generals getting alternate versions of their activatables pretty much any were.
Here's a complete list of Duelyst Generals: http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Generals

Each class has 2 generals, the second one which you unlock at level 11. I don't know if that's ever explained very well, but I suppose the player would find out on their own pretty quickly (it only takes an hour or so to reach level 11 with a class).

----

So the basic deck I posted on the forum has been working pretty well so far. I started a new account just to test it out and I made it to Silver in a couple hours without much trouble.

I threw in a few Sojourners (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Sojourner) when I could afford them. IMO Sojourners are a really great card, good statwise and even better because Kara Winterblade (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Kara_Winterblade) can buff them up, giving you both card draw and decent damage in a single card. Also, the more cards you have in your action bar, the more value Kara's class ability grants you. Pretty sick.
no no no there not different classes there literally the same generals I've been seeing with same abilities I would have been able to tell if they were the fact that they have different art makes it blatantly obvious
edit what the hell zirixs activatables has changed?! when I played him a few days ago his token minion had rush and might have been a 1 1 or a 2 2 I cant remember did he get changed in a patch without me knowing?.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 19, 2016, 12:31:31 PM
Yeah, he was changed, before he summoned a 2/2 wind dervish with rush, which would disappear at the end of the round (like all wind dervishes) but they changed it to an iron dervish which has the same 2/2 stats but no longer rush and he stays forever on the field. I don't know why they have changed it. Ability abuse? Too strong? hen I fought against Faie Bloodwing, I immidately noticed how weak this change is.
Whenever I summoned a dervish, Bloodwing used her "deal everything in your generals line 2 damage" spell, so i lost my dervishs int he first turn I summoned them. With Rush I could have at least used them, but now the spell isn't very usefull anymore.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 19, 2016, 02:05:37 PM
Yeah, he was changed, before he summoned a 2/2 wind dervish with rush, which would disappear at the end of the round (like all wind dervishes) but they changed it to an iron dervish which has the same 2/2 stats but no longer rush and he stays forever on the field. I don't know why they have changed it. Ability abuse? Too strong? hen I fought against Faie Bloodwing, I immidately noticed how weak this change is.
Whenever I summoned a dervish, Bloodwing used her "deal everything in your generals line 2 damage" spell, so i lost my dervishs int he first turn I summoned them. With Rush I could have at least used them, but now the spell isn't very usefull anymore.
yea I know I really like that when I was playing my deck of him ): now it just seems to me like a worst version of the abyssal minion summon activatable granted though being able to summon a 2 2 with rush doesn't really have an equivalent and the fact that he goes at the turn doesn't really matter since your guaranteed by design to lose rush minions the run you play them
so that probably was over powered in the meta game

now on a secondary note regarding faie blood wings activatable is it completely random which part of the column it actually hits? because it feels that way to me.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 19, 2016, 02:31:12 PM
Column is north to south. It hits all enemy units in the same column as the enemy commander for 2 damage without exception.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Toranth on June 19, 2016, 03:11:25 PM
Welp, one lesson learned for the day:  Don't play and expect to win on weekends.
Suddenly I'm being matched with players that have ribbons.  Lots of ribbons.  4 or 5, well, I expect their deck will be better than mine, sure... but I might win (and did, once).  But against people with 12 or 15 ribbons?  Or 7 ribbons in one faction only?  The one being played, of course.  Or the guy that had at least 3 ribbons in every faction?  I went 1/10, before scraping out a few more wins against other newbs...
If someone has more than 2,000 wins - what are they doing in the low end of the Silver bracket?  ???
On the other hand, I got to see an amazing Blast deck up-close and personal.  That is one nasty beast.


On a different note, how is the Gauntlet?  I have my free ticket from the Starter Quest, and it sounds like the prizes are pretty good.  It is actually worth it to keep doing it?  150 gold = 1.5 orbs, but you can get free orbs and more free tickets, right?  Seems like it'd be the best way to unlock stuff, once I have an idea how to draft.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 19, 2016, 04:46:11 PM
Gauntlet, like Arena in HS, is the single most lucrative way of playing the game IF you're good.

That's a big IF. Because you always get an orb and if get 7 wins you get another Gauntlet ticket, plus other random prizes. If you get 12 wins? Well, swag. So it pays for itself... And then some.

There's no secrets. I'm sure there's guides all over the place. I've looked at some of them. The biggest thing I think is just practice. There's two things, building a deck with random cards, and then using a deck full of random cards. Both are equally important. Both take a lot of experience.

So I've created 2 alternate accounts just for doing daily quests and using that gold to practice Gauntlet runs, so that when I'm ready I can do it on my main account, and hopefully have a high enough win rate to continue playing it infinitely. With the new referral system doing this has some added benefits.

The wonderful thing about Gauntlet is that it's the great equalizer. Everyone has an equal opportunity to create an epic deck. Play time and money spent are non factors.

By the way, which Starter Quest gave you the free Gauntlet ticket. Do you remember?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Toranth on June 19, 2016, 07:12:43 PM
With the new referral system doing this has some added benefits.
They don't have a problem with players creating multiple accounts to support a main?  Huh.  I may need to do that, too, and do some Gauntlet reading.


By the way, which Starter Quest gave you the free Gauntlet ticket. Do you remember?
I didn't remember, but according to reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/duelyst/comments/4fw72k/uptodate_hidden_achievements_and_rewards_list/), it was this one:

Quote from: reddit
"Entering The Gauntlet"
Play 20 games.
Reward: 1 Gauntlet Ticket
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 19, 2016, 07:36:25 PM
Quote
They don't have a problem with players creating multiple accounts to support a main?
I don't know if they do or not, or furthermore how they would go about verifying such a thing. The referral system was just created a few days ago so, who knows. I'll keep using it as long as I can!

Thanks a lot for that list, it's very helpful.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 20, 2016, 11:11:25 AM
do you fellows have a particular favourite faction?
personally as I'm sure you've noticed I've been playing pretty much just abyssians and having a blast I really need to do something properly with the other factions particularly the one with lion heart in it(I cant remember its name) I realy liked some of the minions in it like the 3.2-3 that activate twice a turn that seems really handy
I have been playing a bit of blood wing though I don't really have any cards for that faction so its not that different to my lionheart deck.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 20, 2016, 12:09:13 PM
Ugh I have so many favorites. It's hard to decide. Honestly if I had just stuck with one and put all my dust into it, I'd probably have all their legendaries and epic cards unlocked by now, but I can't stick with any long enough to do that.

I love Lyonar for their epic heal combos, though admittedly, that requires some of the harder to obtain epic cards to pull off to full effect. Still, it's beautiful when it works. High HP minions with healing to keep them alive, while doing damage to enemies simultaneously. Then of course Divine Bond to deal the killing blow of sometimes 15 or more damage easily.

I like Magmar just because of the value of their units. It's not enough that there's a 4/5 Veteran Silithar on the board, but you've gotta kill it TWICE or it'll respawn. Even the 2/3 Young Silithar is annoying in that way. Spirit Harvester is just the Abyssian ender, dealing 1 damage to minions each turn and having great stats to boot. Makantor Warbeast, a 4/4 with Frenzy AND Rush is simply game-ending strong, nothing much else to say about it. Silithar Elder of course being an 8/8 which can respawn, but also summons a copy of itself each turn, which summons a copy of itself, which summons a copy of itself...if your opponent doesn't deal with this quickly, it's soon becomes a doomsday scenario. I've summoned one of these on turn 2 before. Needless to say, it was an instant concede.

Of course their new Legendary, the sister known as Earth Sister Taygete is easily the most broken of the bunch. Not much else to say except ouch. Card will probably be nerfed, but for now, it's godmode.

Abyssian is one of my favorites as well. It would be more of a favorite of mine except that everybody seems to like to play it. I'm not super complaining about this though, because if you see it a lot in ladder you can just play Magmar and get free wins. But even though it's overplayed, there are so many cool things about it. The Deathwatch mechanic, the Shadow Creep, a lot of their units are just really neat. Their Legendaries are definitely some of the coolest in the game. The combo potential between so many of their cards...ugh it's all just so disgusting. I'm planning on spending my next ~5000 dust craft an Abyssian Dying Wish Combo deck with Unseven, Vorpal Reaper, Reaper of the Nine Moons, and Dioltas. When it's done I think it's going to be shoot yourself in the face scary.

Right now I have an Lilithe Abyssian deck that kind of hinges around Grailmaster and Dark Sacrifice. The way Grailmaster (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Grailmaster) works is that she's a 7 cost minion who gets more powerful each time you summon a new minion. So playing that card, then doing the mass spawn thing that Abyssian is so good at is pretty much an instant win condition unless they can deal with Grailmaster in a single turn, which is hard to do because I place it on the edge of the map.

I have another Abyssian deck, but this time with Cassyva, which frankly I think is a bit genius. You see, Cassyva is the hero who centers around the use of Shadow Creep, however Shadow Creep by its very nature is a lategame mechanic. You have to build it up over the course of a match for it to be truly effective, and there are only a few minions/cards that can apply it. So you're very limited until the later stages of the battle, after which you start turning the whole board into toxic poop. So to counter-act this early game weakness, I made it a hybrid deck with Shadow Creep and Mechaz0r. So summoning Mechaz0r is the win condition for the early to midgame, which your opponent will be scrambling to stop. However, even if he does somehow stop that, by the lategame you will have usually bought enough time to win with Shadow Creep. It's a pretty nasty combo.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 20, 2016, 04:16:35 PM
good ness long post for sure so ill dilute my response into bullet points

1 that sounds like it could be rather over powered makes me hope net decking isn't a thing in competitive doesn't sound like it is but sure you'll correct me there

2 intresting I might just play magmar some time then when I've had enough of the canar(more on them in a minute) now the elder I presume is an 8 seems like the sort of thing that would be impossible to keep from being rushed down

also fun fact did you know the magmar are the oldest faction in the game lore wise? I've got to page 10 in the codex and there at least a couple hundred years old and not just the faction as a whole since their effectively immortal?

3 yes the abyssal do have a ton of combo potential I don't realy have any of that potential yet asides from shadow watchers/apocalyptic pact/just about any neutral that reacts to summons turns out they work pretty well as a base value deck as well

4 and yes the canar the second oldest faction lore wise and a very fun one as I'm sure you know they are very much about board control the passive is very use full even if your opponent is smart enough to keep his minions out of it for whittling your opponent down
so far I've got their dispel which seems objectively better than the minion variant to me
you've got their airdrop sledgehammer which is more useful than it may seem at first glance because unless hs placing a minion down doesn't mean he's automatically venerable to your opponent force  its rather refreshing really I think theirs the ice wall summing which seems superb to me for board control now I'm sure wingflier has more to say than me on this faction really but I'm loving them.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 20, 2016, 05:58:05 PM
Quote
1 that sounds like it could be rather over powered makes me hope net decking isn't a thing in competitive doesn't sound like it is but sure you'll correct me there
It's not overpowered, though here's a picture of me doing it in my last game.

(http://i.imgur.com/IE7vA07.jpg)

That Suntide Maiden started out as a 3/6, so yeah, it got buffed.

The thing is, there are a lot of ways to deal with Lyonar minions. Most of them have taunt so if you just dispel them with any of the game's many dispels, it's pretty devastating. Also, Repulsor Beast is a huge headache for Lyonar because their minions are slowwww, and they have no way to quickly transport them to new places on the battlefield. Many factions have a class ability that allows them to move minions as well, and this can be game ending for Lyonar, who rely on huge, expensive minions with a lot of health and damage to win the game.

Though, for sure the most overpowered and direct counter to Lyonar is this neutral card, Hollow Grovekeeper (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Hollow_Grovekeeper). Not only does it kill all enemy minions with Frenzy or Provoke in an aoe around it instantly...but doing so *GIVES IT* Frenzy and Provoke. Ouch. Getting hit by one of those as Lyonar is a huge tempo swing, since many of your most powerful minions have Provoke.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 20, 2016, 06:25:49 PM
Quote
1 that sounds like it could be rather over powered makes me hope net decking isn't a thing in competitive doesn't sound like it is but sure you'll correct me there
It's not overpowered, though here's a picture of me doing it in my last game.

(http://i.imgur.com/IE7vA07.jpg)

That Suntide Maiden started out as a 3/6, so yeah, it got buffed.

The thing is, there are a lot of ways to deal with Lyonar minions. Most of them have taunt so if you just dispel them with any of the game's many dispels, it's pretty devastating. Also, Repulsor Beast is a huge headache for Lyonar because their minions are slowwww, and they have no way to quickly transport them to new places on the battlefield. Many factions have a class ability that allows them to move minions as well, and this can be game ending for Lyonar, who rely on huge, expensive minions with a lot of health and damage to win the game.

Though, for sure the most overpowered and direct counter to Lyonar is this neutral card, Hollow Grovekeeper (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Hollow_Grovekeeper). Not only does it kill all enemy minions with Frenzy or Provoke in an aoe around it instantly...but doing so *GIVES IT* Frenzy and Provoke. Ouch. Getting hit by one of those as Lyonar is a huge tempo swing, since many of your most powerful minions have Provoke.
hey I never said it was just that it sounded like it could be but grovekeeper seems pretty great even considering how hyper persifick it is btw do you particularly like the canar? the factions growing on me quite a bit particularly the spell dispel.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 20, 2016, 07:13:51 PM
As I said, Vanar is one of the easiest starting factions because their basic spells and minions are so powerful. Kara in particular is a great General because her blood born spell makes even mediocre minions good...

I did make the starting deck I posted to the forum Vanar after all.

However, to use the faction to the full extent is one of the most difficult tasks in the game. They are very advanced and hard to play at the highest level.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 20, 2016, 07:37:08 PM
I currently play most of the time Vetruvian and Abyssian. My tactic is too spam the enmy with disposable creatures (more so in Abyssian than in Vetruvian) and rush the general. I leave minions mostly alone because the enemy general will eventually attack my minions and looses his attack chance. If there is once an enemy minon that I really need to care of, i bind it with provoke.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 21, 2016, 06:03:35 AM
As I said, Vanar is one of the easiest starting factions because their basic spells and minions are so powerful. Kara in particular is a great General because her blood born spell makes even mediocre minions good...

I did make the starting deck I posted to the forum Vanar after all.

However, to use the faction to the full extent is one of the most difficult tasks in the game. They are very advanced and hard to play at the highest level.
a yes you did 2 my apologies ill be swapping to kara when I unlock she suits me more than the current one and yes now I see that deck you posted I've got pretty much all of those asides from the general obviously and the dancing blades
I forgot to mention though that the war masters are super sick aren't they?  id prefer it there stat line was reversed but that would probably make them a bit over powered.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 22, 2016, 10:02:14 AM
Quote
I forgot to mention though that the war masters are super sick aren't they?  id prefer it there stat line was reversed but that would probably make them a bit over powered.
Ah yes, Warmaster used to be a 3/3 on both lives, but they felt that was a bit...overpowered. Personally I think it was a nerfed a little too much. If it was a 3/3 on it's first life and a 3/2 on it's second life that would seem a little more fair to me, but to be clear, it's still a pretty dang good card because of how sticky it is.

I finally made it to Diamond!

(http://i.imgur.com/Bacz3Ev.jpg)
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 22, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
Quote
I forgot to mention though that the war masters are super sick aren't they?  id prefer it there stat line was reversed but that would probably make them a bit over powered.
Ah yes, Warmaster used to be a 3/3 on both lives, but they felt that was a bit...overpowered. Personally I think it was a nerfed a little too much. If it was a 3/3 on it's first life and a 3/2 on it's second life that would seem a little more fair to me, but to be clear, it's still a pretty dang good card because of how sticky it is.

I finally made it to Diamond!

(http://i.imgur.com/Bacz3Ev.jpg)
okay a couple of things
1 I think its fine as it at the moment its essentially  a 4 6 for 2 which is already pretty dam good having it be a 3 3 on its first would allow it to trade far to well in my opinion
2 been doing a gauntlet run today first ever in fact and I choose the alternate general for the lionel faction and among other things I got the 5 2 3 that summons two copies of it itself as a battle cry which pisses me of because I want to actually own this card the sky's the limit with this thing when it comes to synergies sadly though my deck is not very  synergistic its not living to its full potential its still great value though

also got a minion that's 3 6 who's zeal allows her to fully heal each turn and she's a 4 cost she's awesome and I love her to bits

I also got the gramother who replaces your hero when she dies(when your hero dies not the legendary) in fact she just saved me in a match against one of the desert bio suit guys
there's a bunch of interesting minions I got but I'm just going to ask about one more and that's the ones that boost the mechazor completion percentage is mechazor an actual card? or is he a unit that gets magically summoned from no were? if he is a card does he need to be in my hand for the percentage boosters to work?.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 22, 2016, 04:53:27 PM
Congratulations!  :D
I never get out of silver but that's okay, I only recently started to play and still haven't many cards. I try to get at least one spirit orb per day, so I get a steady income on cards.

On another note, the season of Chronicles is almost over (Season for June and first season since launch). I think I scored pretty good with what I got. The rate at which you get new cards is lower than in Duelyst but the basic cards in Chronicles are so damn good, you don't need new cards for a long time.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 24, 2016, 02:24:45 AM
Lol, Sarlac the Eternal is so fun to play in an Abyssian deck. Hilarious XD
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 24, 2016, 11:50:12 AM
Just got my first 7 win streak in Gauntlet, which means I get another free ticket, in addition to a card pack and whatever other rewards. I was beginning to think I was just sh*t at Gauntlet, but I think now it was more of bad luck mixed with inexperience.

After a few more weeks of practice I'll probably write a guide. I really like what Heartharena did for Hearthstone. It's awesome to have the best cards/synergies picked for you, so that you can just play your deck. Unfortunately I think I'm a lot better at deck playing than deck building.

(http://i.imgur.com/M5IyUji.jpg)

Lol, Sarlac the Eternal is so fun to play in an Abyssian deck. Hilarious XD
Oh did you get that card? Yeah, he may as well be an Abyssian Legendary because he works so well for them and would be kind of silly with any other faction.

Quote
2 been doing a gauntlet run today first ever in fact and I choose the alternate general for the lionel faction and among other things I got the 5 2 3 that summons two copies of it itself as a battle cry which pisses me of because I want to actually own this card the sky's the limit with this thing when it comes to synergies sadly though my deck is not very  synergistic its not living to its full potential its still great value though
That's called Ash Mephyt (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Ash_Mephyt), it works pretty well in Kara decks for that reason. You know if you like it, they're pretty cheap to craft since they're only common.

Quote
I also got the gramother who replaces your hero when she dies(when your hero dies not the legendary) in fact she just saved me in a match against one of the desert bio suit guys
Haha you're lucky. I've opened probably 130 packs or more and still haven't gotten that one (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Grandmaster_Z%27ir) yet!

Quote
I also got the gramother who replaces your hero when she dies(when your hero dies not the legendary) in fact she just saved me in a match against one of the desert bio suit guys
there's a bunch of interesting minions I got but I'm just going to ask about one more and that's the ones that boost the mechazor completion percentage is mechazor an actual card? or is he a unit that gets magically summoned from no were? if he is a card does he need to be in my hand for the percentage boosters to work?.
Yes, Mechaz0r is a card. He is summoned automatically (you choose the space on the board), for free, once you place 5 mechaz0r minion cards. Even better, they don't combine into mechaz0r, so your minion cards stay on the board the way they were, which basically just means you get a free god-tier minion.
http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/MECHAZ0R!
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 24, 2016, 12:05:58 PM
Just got my first 7 win streak in Gauntlet, which means I get another free ticket, in addition to a card pack and whatever other rewards. I was beginning to think I was just sh*t at Gauntlet, but I think now it was more of bad luck mixed with inexperience.

After a few more weeks of practice I'll probably write a guide. I really like what Heartharena did for Hearthstone. It's awesome to have the best cards/synergies picked for you, so that you can just play your deck. Unfortunately I think I'm a lot better at deck playing than deck building.

(http://i.imgur.com/M5IyUji.jpg)

Lol, Sarlac the Eternal is so fun to play in an Abyssian deck. Hilarious XD
Oh did you get that card? Yeah, he may as well be an Abyssian Legendary because he works so well for them and would be kind of silly with any other faction.

Quote
2 been doing a gauntlet run today first ever in fact and I choose the alternate general for the lionel faction and among other things I got the 5 2 3 that summons two copies of it itself as a battle cry which pisses me of because I want to actually own this card the sky's the limit with this thing when it comes to synergies sadly though my deck is not very  synergistic its not living to its full potential its still great value though
That's called Ash Mephyt (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Ash_Mephyt), it works pretty well in Kara decks for that reason. You know if you like it, they're pretty cheap to craft since they're only common.

Quote
I also got the gramother who replaces your hero when she dies(when your hero dies not the legendary) in fact she just saved me in a match against one of the desert bio suit guys
Haha you're lucky. I've opened probably 130 packs or more and still haven't gotten that one (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Grandmaster_Z%27ir) yet!

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I also got the gramother who replaces your hero when she dies(when your hero dies not the legendary) in fact she just saved me in a match against one of the desert bio suit guys
there's a bunch of interesting minions I got but I'm just going to ask about one more and that's the ones that boost the mechazor completion percentage is mechazor an actual card? or is he a unit that gets magically summoned from no were? if he is a card does he need to be in my hand for the percentage boosters to work?.
Yes, Mechaz0r is a card. He is summoned automatically (you choose the space on the board), for free, once you place 5 mechaz0r minion cards. Even better, they don't combine into mechaz0r, so your minion cards stay on the board the way they were, which basically just means you get a free god-tier minion.
http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/MECHAZ0R!
1 I.....yea crafting's something that's been absent from my mind its really something I should do though

2 I em......got that in gauntlet just in case that wasn't clear but she's still sick

3 that's pretty sick it helps that the minions you need for are all good in their own right

4 I got a 2 3 on my first run and then on the second lost twice and then never got back it for what ever reason so ill have to wait till next wends day to continue it assuming it didn't say hug you to me and just make that run non existent
also my name on duleyst is the same as here just for future reference in case I encounter any of you out there.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 24, 2016, 01:02:20 PM
Mechaz0r reminds me of the Omega guaridan in Solforge. Similiar to this card he is created from multiple mech cards that you play and is a really strong card.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 24, 2016, 04:04:54 PM
unlocked enoughour minion I like the fire hand works quite well with my vance deck since they  have a good deal of spells I wonder if super spell decks are possible....might have to try that in the future
also Id like to ask a couple of questions
1 do you think the spectral knights a good legendary? just in case you don't know what I'm talking about he's a 7 7 7 and he goes down 1 cost and gets 1 1 in stats when ever hes replaced his replacement system works like everybody else
that's obviously really powerful but he seems far to un reliable to be of any use really personally I think

2 what's the best way to deal with the alternate abyssian general if your playing the default? I fought one a bit ago and it felt like I was fighting someone who could counter me at every turn and shut down my main advantage(little fellers) while helping him self
I almost think that activatable(yea I know messed that spelling up but I'm having a brain fart at the moment and I cant get it right sorry ): ) should be changed so it cant effect the little fellers of your opponent.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 24, 2016, 06:05:08 PM
If anyone want to add me on Duelyst, my name is "TheVampire100", just like everywhere else (yep, I'm not very creative with my names, lol).

I could use another Sarlac, his synergy with the Abyssian cards is crazy but he is worthless once dispelled, so another copy would be good. I also need the other cards with deathwatch. Shadowwatcher is cool as he is (really, I like him) but if I want to get the most out of the Sarlac combo, I need the other cards as well.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 24, 2016, 06:25:51 PM
so is there some way I can disable animations? like particular animations at most but ill take it for all if I can because you see I just lost my last gauntlet match I had had the minion with death watch that summons little feelers who died and then I had enougher in till I had an hilarious amount of them.....and then I decided to cast the aoe damage and healing spell.......and then my frame rate tanked to shit and then I ran out of time......and id already cast an aoe damage buff so yea I'm a little pissed of right now.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 25, 2016, 10:54:26 PM
hey so I was just on their reddit and theres a ton of of complaining about some card called grincher who apparently gives you a random artefact and discounts it by 2 so I just thought id ask what you think of that personally id remove the discount and make it limited to your own faction realy the possibility of getting enougher factions artefact is to unbalancing for me and you really don't need a discount seeing as how getting an extra artefact and a body is pretty darn strong already in opinion obviously.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 25, 2016, 11:49:34 PM
hey so I was just on their reddit and theres a ton of of complaining about some card called grincher who apparently gives you a random artefact and discounts it by 2 so I just thought id ask what you think of that personally id remove the discount and make it limited to your own faction realy the possibility of getting enougher factions artefact is to unbalancing for me and you really don't need a discount seeing as how getting an extra artefact and a body is pretty darn strong already in opinion obviously.
I agree with you personally but honestly I don't think the card, even in its current form will be used that much. That's because at 5 mana its stats are less than mediocre and the weapon it gives you is unreliable. It could be amazing, it could be useless. But the bigger problem is that people are already using a lot of artifacts so Rust Crawler is already pretty common in the metagame, which is a 2 drop that destroys a weapon and gives a 2/3 body. Then you have class specific counters like Rasha's Curse and Artifact Defiler which are even more devastating to Artifact decks.

Overall I think it'll just be more of a for fun card, but I do hope they make it less random before release.
so is there some way I can disable animations? like particular animations at most but ill take it for all if I can because you see I just lost my last gauntlet match I had had the minion with death watch that summons little feelers who died and then I had enougher in till I had an hilarious amount of them.....and then I decided to cast the aoe damage and healing spell.......and then my frame rate tanked to shit and then I ran out of time......and id already cast an aoe damage buff so yea I'm a little pissed of right now.
I've seen streamers speed up the animation but I don't know how. All I know is that you can make your moves a lot more efficient and fast by turning on a setting in the option that let's you move and attack with a minion without reselecting it, which has saved me from losing my turn many times.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Toranth on June 26, 2016, 07:59:06 AM
I've seen streamers speed up the animation but I don't know how. All I know is that you can make your moves a lot more efficient and fast by turning on a setting in the option that let's you move and attack with a minion without reselecting it, which has saved me from losing my turn many times.
I don't know if there are other settings to do it, but it possible to click to move a unit, then before the unit finishes moving, click on the empty destination tile to order the attack.  I do this a lot when doing 4-5 wraithling mob attacks or other mass moves.  Can totally fall apart of something doesn't go as expected, though... not that I would ever screw up like that, though.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 26, 2016, 08:46:14 AM
hey so I was just on their reddit and theres a ton of of complaining about some card called grincher who apparently gives you a random artefact and discounts it by 2 so I just thought id ask what you think of that personally id remove the discount and make it limited to your own faction realy the possibility of getting enougher factions artefact is to unbalancing for me and you really don't need a discount seeing as how getting an extra artefact and a body is pretty darn strong already in opinion obviously.
I agree with you personally but honestly I don't think the card, even in its current form will be used that much. That's because at 5 mana its stats are less than mediocre and the weapon it gives you is unreliable. It could be amazing, it could be useless. But the bigger problem is that people are already using a lot of artifacts so Rust Crawler is already pretty common in the metagame, which is a 2 drop that destroys a weapon and gives a 2/3 body. Then you have class specific counters like Rasha's Curse and Artifact Defiler which are even more devastating to Artifact decks.

Overall I think it'll just be more of a for fun card, but I do hope they make it less random before release.
so is there some way I can disable animations? like particular animations at most but ill take it for all if I can because you see I just lost my last gauntlet match I had had the minion with death watch that summons little feelers who died and then I had enougher in till I had an hilarious amount of them.....and then I decided to cast the aoe damage and healing spell.......and then my frame rate tanked to shit and then I ran out of time......and id already cast an aoe damage buff so yea I'm a little pissed of right now.
I've seen streamers speed up the animation but I don't know how. All I know is that you can make your moves a lot more efficient and fast by turning on a setting in the option that let's you move and attack with a minion without reselecting it, which has saved me from losing my turn many times.
  1 fair enough I think the real reason people are antsy on the rebbit is because there afraid of the game slowly going down the same path as hs and considering how most of their player base are people who started playing because it didn't have the things in hs they then its fair for them to get antsy how ever I think its fine for some cards to have less predictable effects stops things from getting stale really
they've also been complaining about some card called reaper something to be honest I'm not realy sure what there talking about there but ill check today if its in the game or up coming card

2  that sounds really use full but its probably just an effect for the viewer I wouldn't be surprised if its just the same for the player but I only want this for aoes really since they can really tank your frame rate when there's a lot of targets involved also just for this instance id prefer it if the timer stopped when you took actions like in hs in this instance getting punished for trying to think things through like that just seems cheap to me
but I presume people like this or the devs probably would have changed it already.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 27, 2016, 02:51:23 PM
Hey Wingflier, any good tips how to improve these two decks?
Abyssian (http://duelystdb.com/decks/view/10453)
Magmar (http://duelystdb.com/decks/view/10454)
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 27, 2016, 03:10:59 PM
I think I might just go play that for a change from what I'm usually playing just so long as it doesn't try to hard to scare not that I get scared easily the opposite in fact usually when games try really hard to scare It comes of as annoying to me
a game that has managed to scare me though funnily enough is a sort of roguey game called duskers  http://store.steampowered.com/app/254320/ a game were your operating drone from your ship after an epidemic and scavenging things like fuel scrap other drones and upgrades from derelict ships you have 2 views one were you have a view of the entire map and enougher  were you your view is from the top of a drone were you can barely make out what anything is its a great game and among other things very atmospheric
it is on sale  also but only for 15 percent though for those wondering.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 27, 2016, 03:39:30 PM
that reminds me I really need to go and actually play magmar for a bit even though I've been digging my besties right now(abyssians sand people and the vanar)
also has anybody else been reading the codex? its super interesting and so far tells you the origins of each faction asides from the abyssians makes me wonder when they came to be a thing regarding to the present in the time line.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 27, 2016, 08:42:25 PM
Hey Wingflier, any good tips how to improve these two decks?
Abyssian (http://duelystdb.com/decks/view/10453)
Magmar (http://duelystdb.com/decks/view/10454)
The Abyssian one:

-Planar Scout is a bad card.
-Necroseer is a bad card.
-Too many spells/artifacts. Generally speaking you want to keep your spells and artifacts at no more than 1/3rd of your deck, so that's about 13 max.

+Needs more Demonic Lure. Demonic Lure is one of the best spells in the game, always take 3.
+Needs Primus Fist. Primus Fist a great 2 drop and fits really well into spammy decks.
+Replace Stormmetal Golem with First Sword of Akrane.
+Gloomchaser is an amazing 2 drop, you should put 3 in there.
+If you have any more Bloodmoon Priestess or Shadowdancers, add them.

Here's my revision (http://duelystdb.com/squad/community_decks?build=MTozMDEsMzozMTEsMzozMTcsMTozMTgsMzoxMDAyMCwzOjEwOTU5LDE6MTA5NzUsMzoxMDk4NCwzOjE5MDI3LDM6MTkwMzcsMToxOTA0NSwzOjE5MDUyLDM6MjAwNDksMToyMDA1NywxOjIwMDY1LDE6MjAwNzAsMzoyMDA3MSwzOjIwMDcy), adding only common cards to what you already had in there.

(http://duelystdb.com/landscape/73a3d7715e44cf406688534a56e4adcf.png)

--------

The Magmar one:

-Dance of Dreams is a bad card.
-Kinetic Equilibrium is a less than mediocre card, fitting only into specific builds. I've never seen it outside of Gauntlet.
-Dragonlark and Planar Scouts are bad cards.
-Phalanxar is a bad card.
-Earthwalker is a bad card.
-Lux Ignis is a less than mediocre card, fitting only into specific builds.

+Needs Young Silithar, one of the best 2-drops in the game.
+Needs more Veteran Silithar, one of the best 4-drops in the game.
+Needs Jaxi, one of the best 2-drops in the game.

Here are the changes (http://duelystdb.com/squad/community_decks?build=MTo0MDEsMTo0MDQsMTo0MDcsMzo0MTAsMzo0MTIsMzo0MTMsMTo0MTQsMjoxMDAxMiwzOjEwMDIxLDM6MTEwMTQsMzoxOTAyNywxOjE5MDQ0LDM6MjAxMTYsMzoyMDExNywyOjIwMTIyLDE6MjAxMjQsMzoyMDEyNSwzOjMwMDEy) I made, adding only common cards:

(http://duelystdb.com/landscape/8a80fcca64787f40cf3a449d3630a18d.png)

This is very similar to one of the budget Magmar decks I used to climb a lot of rank when I didn't have a lot of cards.

With Jaxi and Vale Hunter you technically have 6 ranged minions. When you take one of the 6 ranged minions and give it Greater Fortitude or Primordial Gazer, they become god-tier ranged units very quickly, and are extremely difficult to deal with. Use the Greater Fortitude and Primordial Gazer to buff ranged units or to buff Silverspine Tigers so that they can kill something in a single turn, or attack the General, and live. You can pretty much buff anything in your lineup, but the ranged units, Elucidator, and the tigers are the best targets. Hide your ranged units at the edge of the map and continue picking off enemy threats. Keep buffing your general with his bloodborn spell, use Adamantine Claws to attack the enemy general, and Earth Sphere for when you need healing. You should win the war of attrition.

Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 27, 2016, 09:45:54 PM
Why do you actually think Planar Scout is a bad card? He is very good in the first few rounds.
Also, why remove Deepfire Devourer? He is a very good card with a big stat potential. even if he kills only 2 minions, which is always possible with this general, he gets already +4/+4. This would make 8/8 plus Frenzy for him.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 28, 2016, 12:39:30 AM
The issue with Deepfire Devourer is that it's such a magnet for dispels and hard removals. I guess having one in the deck is fine, but any more than that is just kind of asking to get screwed.

The problem with Planar Scout is that he's pretty useless after the first 1 or 2 turns. I suppose having a minion that can airdrop is pretty nice on turn one, but after that he's just cannon fodder. At 1 hp he's a perfect target for Bloodtear Alchemist, which everybody seems to be running these days, and he's also food for Cassvya's bloodborn spell, which basically means you're giving her free shadow creep. Bloodtear Alchemist is a much better card if you have to have a 1 drop.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 28, 2016, 01:26:43 AM
Okay, I tested the new deck and it's definitely better than before. I am currently on a 6 games win streak. So thanks a lot for your help, I'm still very new/noobish to the game.

I didn't had every card you said, so I improvised a little. Overall however I think it's a good base for a deck. I still haven't many cards, not even one of the sisters.
What are your thoughts on Tethermancer? I've put one in the deck.
And what cards would you suggest for crawing additional cards?

Edit: I ask maybe to much but can you show me some good base decks for the other factions as well? This would help me to better understand how the different factions work and what they need.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 28, 2016, 04:30:34 AM
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And what cards would you suggest for crawing additional cards?
Hands down Sojourner. Second best would be Void Hunter. Third best would be L'Kian (Neutral Sister), which is an amazing card automatically unlocked when you have 6 sets of neutral rares unlocked. That's actually pretty easy to do.

Quote
Edit: I ask maybe to much but can you show me some good base decks for the other factions as well? This would help me to better understand how the different factions work and what they need.
Here's a budget deck for every faction (http://imgur.com/a/XOhvF) by a player much better than I am.

Quote
What are your thoughts on Tethermancer? I've put one in the deck.
Would be okay in a Lyonar Deck because of Divine Bond. Would be okay in a Kara Winterblade deck because of her bloodborn spell.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 28, 2016, 01:45:43 PM
Thank you very much, I will try out the decks.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 28, 2016, 03:23:24 PM
hey wingflier ill try out some of those decks when I have all the correct cards for them(only using half or half and a quarter for instance would defeat the point really so for now ill be sticking with my own contraptions)
but I was wondering what you thought of a few cards I've been using in my vanar deck which I've been conflicted on my vanar deck has 2 more spells than are recommended really and the 3 snow piercers which I relay shouldn't have along with my 14 spells but I really like that artifact but it does fairly well fluctuating between rank 19 and 18
any way
1 fire hand the 3 5 5 that summons a 1 1 with rush every time you cast a spell I've got 2 of these in my deck right and while I love the idea of them so far they haven't really done anything of worth for me so far usually because I want to play other things when I can play him
asides from 1 abyssian match were he was quite use full but that's it really

2 the 1 4 3 that I cant remember the name who has infiltrate for 3 attack and flying enoughour minion I love the idea but I haven't really got to use(mainly because I've only got 1 and shitty draw rate) him

3 the 10 5 5 with air drop he seems to easy to get rid of to me but it feels like he could be realy power full in the hands of clever person.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 30, 2016, 01:40:31 AM
New patch and testing phase of the steam version of Duelyst has started.
https://news.duelyst.com/duelyst-patch-1-67/
There are for new cards that are dedicated toward famous twitch streamers of Duelyst.

I think Shibo Puppydragon ist pretty strong. A 2 mana card with 1/4 stats and the ability that at the end of every turn neabry minions get +1 attack. The card is also common, so except it to see a lot. The other cards seem "okayish" to me. Nothing really too good or too bad about them, actually very basic.

But I let Wingflier comment ont hat because he has more experience.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 30, 2016, 01:59:50 AM
Finally hit Rank 1. Man, I've been trying to reach that for days.

Now I just need to win 5 more times (without losing LOL) to reach Rank 0.

As far as the new cards, yeah, Shibo seems really strong. But probably the most common in Abyssian decks which were already strong. Grincherz is the other one that we may need to watch out for. Personally I thought it seemed a little silly but I heard a good player claim that it may be used heavily. I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 30, 2016, 04:11:15 AM
Finally hit Rank 1. Man, I've been trying to reach that for days.

Now I just need to win 5 more times (without losing LOL) to reach Rank 0.

As far as the new cards, yeah, Shibo seems really strong. But probably the most common in Abyssian decks which were already strong. Grincherz is the other one that we may need to watch out for. Personally I thought it seemed a little silly but I heard a good player claim that it may be used heavily. I guess we'll see.
heh good job (:
but are you going to answer my questions? I'm genuinely curious what you think of those cards.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on June 30, 2016, 03:59:17 PM
hey wingflier ill try out some of those decks when I have all the correct cards for them(only using half or half and a quarter for instance would defeat the point really so for now ill be sticking with my own contraptions)
but I was wondering what you thought of a few cards I Most Certainly Have been using in my vanar deck which I've been conflicted on my vanar deck has 2 more spells than are recommended really and the 3 snow piercers which I relay shouldn't have along with my 14 spells but I really like that artifact but it does fairly well fluctuating between rank 19 and 18
any way
1 fire hand the 3 5 5 that summons a 1 1 with rush every time you cast a spell I've got 2 of these in my deck right and while I love the idea of them so far they haven't really done anything of worth for me so far usually because I want to play other things when I can play him
asides from 1 abyssian match were he was quite use full but that's it really

2 the 1 4 3 that I cant remember the name who has infiltrate for 3 attack and flying enoughour minion I love the idea but I haven't really got to use(mainly because I've only got 1 and shitty draw rate) him

3 the 10 5 5 with air drop he seems to easy to get rid of to me but it feels like he could be realy power full in the hands of clever person.

1. Firestarter (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Firestarter):

Good in some Songhai decks. Okay overall. Need to cast a lot of spells to make it useful, which Songhai does much better than any other class.

2. Wolfraven (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Wolfraven):

He's okay but not that great. He relies on your opponent being on their side of the Battlefield, which you can't really count on, making him a little too situational to be effective. In most cases Wings of Paradise (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Wings_of_Paradise) is just going to be the defacto better card.

3. Arctic Displacer (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Arctic_Displacer):

Generally a bad card. It does have some synergy with Spirit of the Wild (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Spirit_of_the_Wild), but that only works on the opponent's side of the battlefield. Frosthorn Rhino (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Frosthorn_Rhyno) is almost always going to be a better card.

Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on June 30, 2016, 04:22:27 PM
I added Mirkblood Devouer to my deck because I think he has a good synergy with my minion spam ability. A 1/1 wraithling is already an annoying pest but a bunch of 2/2 wraithlings? This is gonna be fun.

On antoher side note, my deck in Chronicles is really amazing. My Linza deck to be precise. Linza is the weaponsmith class of the game and creates tons of weapons and weapon upgrades for herself, so she can deal big damage in direct fights. She also has two nuke skills that are really good but both destroy your weapons in a way. Currently my weapons have always around 10-15 attack towards the end of the match. Normally weapons have around 3 attack and even the better weapons have only 7 attack. I can knock out my enemy in two hits at the end fight. I also added a card that gives me armor based on my weapon strength, so even if my enemy has also a lot of attack damage, I can sustain it.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on June 30, 2016, 04:43:42 PM
hey wingflier ill try out some of those decks when I have all the correct cards for them(only using half or half and a quarter for instance would defeat the point really so for now ill be sticking with my own contraptions)
but I was wondering what you thought of a few cards I Most Certainly Have been using in my vanar deck which I've been conflicted on my vanar deck has 2 more spells than are recommended really and the 3 snow piercers which I relay shouldn't have along with my 14 spells but I really like that artifact but it does fairly well fluctuating between rank 19 and 18
any way
1 fire hand the 3 5 5 that summons a 1 1 with rush every time you cast a spell I've got 2 of these in my deck right and while I love the idea of them so far they haven't really done anything of worth for me so far usually because I want to play other things when I can play him
asides from 1 abyssian match were he was quite use full but that's it really

2 the 1 4 3 that I cant remember the name who has infiltrate for 3 attack and flying enoughour minion I love the idea but I haven't really got to use(mainly because I've only got 1 and shitty draw rate) him

3 the 10 5 5 with air drop he seems to easy to get rid of to me but it feels like he could be realy power full in the hands of clever person.

1. Firestarter (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Firestarter):

Good in some Songhai decks. Okay overall. Need to cast a lot of spells to make it useful, which Songhai does much better than any other class.

2. Wolfraven (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Wolfraven):

He's okay but not that great. He relies on your opponent being on their side of the Battlefield, which you can't really count on, making him a little too situational to be effective. In most cases Wings of Paradise (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Wings_of_Paradise) is just going to be the defacto better card.

3. Arctic Displacer (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Arctic_Displacer):

Generally a bad card. It does have some synergy with Spirit of the Wild (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Spirit_of_the_Wild), but that only works on the opponent's side of the battlefield. Frosthorn Rhino (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Frosthorn_Rhyno) is almost always going to be a better card.
I'm not sure why it took you so long to answer my questions but thanks regardless (:

1 I guess that makes sense ill run with him a bit more in the vanar deck but if he doesn't manage to pull his weigh for me ill replace him with something else

2 fair enough I think the idea of infiltrate is to sort of force your opponent to play around it as well as avalanche which I imagine is more useful higher ranks

3 I think I agree one use I can see for him though is planting him right next your opponent providing she doesn't have metric ton of soldiers and forcing her to deal with it or die if your trying to close out a victory when your opponents at low health
but true enough their far better ways of doing that as vanar.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 01, 2016, 01:51:02 AM
Soooo...
has anyone tried out the new cards in any deck? Any suggestions how to use them right?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 01, 2016, 02:45:05 AM
Goddammit, I cannot defeat you, Wingflier. But at least it was close this time.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on July 04, 2016, 05:07:55 PM
Yeah it was really close.

Oh man, the other day I watched one of my favorite streamers play Hearthstone and after playing Duelyst so heavily it made me so glad I had moved on. What I saw was this Priest vs Warrior control match up that lasted until fatigue. We're talking about both players cycling through their entire decks and essentially accomplishing nothing until the game kills one of them on its own. Sad though it may be, this kind of thing happened ALL the time back when I used to play. It was such a horrible, stressful, time consuming mess.

In Duelyst I've never reached the fatigue stage. Hell I don't even think I've drawn through half my deck EVER in the 500+ games I've probably played. It just doesn't happen. It's designed so much better than that.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: crazyroosterman on July 04, 2016, 05:19:28 PM
Yeah it was really close.

Oh man, the other day I watched one of my favorite streamers play Hearthstone and after playing Duelyst so heavily it made me so glad I had moved on. What I saw was this Priest vs Warrior control match up that lasted until fatigue. We're talking about both players cycling through their entire decks and essentially accomplishing nothing until the game kills one of them on its own. Sad though it may be, this kind of thing happened ALL the time back when I used to play. It was such a horrible, stressful, time consuming mess.

In Duelyst I've never reached the fatigue stage. Hell I don't even think I've drawn through half my deck EVER in the 500+ games I've probably played. It just doesn't happen. It's designed so much better than that.
to be honest I forgot fatigue was even a thing in duleyst I guess they just tend to be quick enough that it doesn't happen
how ever I like it when matches go to fatigue acasionly I feel it tends to be quite memorable it would be pretty obnoxious if it happened all the time though.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 04, 2016, 08:40:55 PM
Yeah it was really close.

Oh man, the other day I watched one of my favorite streamers play Hearthstone and after playing Duelyst so heavily it made me so glad I had moved on. What I saw was this Priest vs Warrior control match up that lasted until fatigue. We're talking about both players cycling through their entire decks and essentially accomplishing nothing until the game kills one of them on its own. Sad though it may be, this kind of thing happened ALL the time back when I used to play. It was such a horrible, stressful, time consuming mess.

In Duelyst I've never reached the fatigue stage. Hell I don't even think I've drawn through half my deck EVER in the 500+ games I've probably played. It just doesn't happen. It's designed so much better than that.

Something liek this would never happen in Solforge. For the worse or better. In Solforge you have infinite cards, literally. Whenever you play a card, you discard an upgraded version of it (all cards have three versions). After four turns, you shuffle 30 cards from your discard pile back into your deck. You can empty your deck, I found out the hard way in a recent match, but there is no penality except that you cannot any more cards until you "rank up" again (that's how the mechanic is called). The game lasts until one player is defeated, concedes or the timer runs out for one player.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 05, 2016, 12:00:14 AM
Are there any good counters for a minion spamming Abyssian deck against Abyssians with shadow creep?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on July 07, 2016, 10:30:35 PM
Are there any good counters for a minion spamming Abyssian deck against Abyssians with shadow creep?
In general Cassyva counters Lilith, so there's not much you can do about that.

However, there are some ways to increase your chances.

Lightbender (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Lightbender) is a good counter to Cassyva in general. He is a 3/3 that dispels all the spaces around himself. Use him to neutralize entire shadow creep swamps.

Secondly, try never to give Cassyva 1 hp minions to use her Bloodborn spell on. I know it's tough with Lilith because you're always summoning those little imps, but if you can, pay attention to when her BB spell is about to be up, and if necessary suicide them onto her or something else so that she can't cast it. The less shadow creep you give her, the weaker her late game will be.

Finally, always pay attention to when she is about to have 7 mana. When she hits 7 mana, you know she will be able to cast her ultimate spell, shadow nova. Shadow Nova fills 4 spaces with creep. This means that it does 4 damage at minimum to four tiles, but probably even more if she has more shadow creep.

You need to place yourself and your minions in such a way that she can't hit all of you. Make sure you don't have any minions (or yourself) within 4 square tiles of each other. Doing this will force her to pick a single target, which will often prevent her from casting Shadow Nova at all, potentially winning you the game.

One of the best counters to Cassvya is just to kill her quickly. The longer the game goes, and the more shadow creep that hits the board, the stronger she gets. Use your Lightbenders to clear the board as much as you can and finish her quickly.

Also, if you have any copies of him, Archon Spellbinder (http://duelyst.gamepedia.com/Archon_Spellbinder) is a good counter to her as well, because she's typically a very spell-oriented character.

Also, I think you had asked me about my thoughts on the new cards, how to play them, how they would affect the game and all that. I'm not experienced enough with the game to give a satisfactory answer, but here's an article (http://managlow.com/the-july-cards-analysis-predictions/) on it.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on July 09, 2016, 03:49:58 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/6wnM0Lj.jpg)

So yeah, it got a little out of control  ;D
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 13, 2016, 08:37:56 AM
Chronicle released a new update with card balancing changes and a new hero to play with. This means there are 37 new cards exclusive for him.
The new hero is Movran the berserker. His special trait is, that he gains special effects on cards if he has slain a certain amount of monsters. For example if he has killed 3 or more monsters, the card "level up" gives him +5 max health. And this for free.

The game introduces also a new echanic, aggressive monsters. Aggressive monsters attack you always first instead of the other way. This means you cannot simply one-shot them without taking damage like other monsters. You have to decide for yourself if you want to take the damage and risk and put those cards in your deck. The new hero, Movran, seems to get the most benefit from aggressive monsters since some of his slayer tasks require them.

From the cards that have been changed, most are connected to Arianne (mage deck). Especially Earth Blast has been nerfed hard:
(http://i.imgur.com/tJQ0W3J.png)
Before the change the card dealt damage for every card in your hand x2, meaning you could get a max damage of 20 with the current hand limit. In a game with a max HP limit of 30 this means that 2/3 of your hp are shot down. And Arianne has a lot of draw cards, so she will always have that 10 cards in her hand. The new limit is now tied to your number of support cards, you still can get the max of 20 but now you need a little luck or filter somehwow the monster cards out. Arianne decks are mostly support cards anyway. At least she isn't op as she used to be.

 will tell more on this after I've played some matches.


Also on Hearthstone, I got a video on Youtube recommend on my front page and watched it to look if C'Thun is still bullshit.  Yep it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGFclGs0IpA
If you don't want to watch it, I sum it up: Both players play a typical C'thun deck which everybode does nowadays because it is the most easiest way to win ranked games. The oppnent of the streamer plays warrior while the streamer plays a rigue deck. Both deck use the typical C'thun tactic: Stall your opponent, draw a smany cards as possible and buff your C'thun. The warrioir rushes his C'thun which is his downfall, C'Thun gets destroyed and wasn't even strong enough to put a crack into the enemy hp. What happens afterwards is the most boring game I've ever seen. All they play is buffs and counters to creatures, they literally destroy everything the turn it is summoned because that's how these stupid decks work: Don't try to dominate the battlefield, just play on time until you can summon your C'thun. The very last card of the player was C'thun and at that point he had over 60 attack. even the enemy player realized at that point he had lost because he KNEW that the last card had to be C'thun and he couldn't counter this anymore. And then he oneshotted the enemy with it.Or can you even call it one-shot if you deal tons of 1 damage to the enemy until he dies?
This is literally the dumbest game I've ever seen. How can this be fun to some people? Seriously, whrere is the fun in this? You just wait until you can summon your C'thun and pray that the enemy does not kill you before that.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on July 13, 2016, 12:08:50 PM
I agree about the C'Thun thing. Honestly I feel that any card game which either encourages or forces the player to go to the very end of their deck (without milling them) in order to win is quite frankly a waste of time; both literally and figuratively. Hell, I even think that milling is stupid, but I respect that it's a mechanic that's been around for a long time, whether or not I like it.

Hearthstone games are like that. Unless you're playing an aggro deck (I tend to love control in most games myself), those games can get dragged out forever. Did you know the Warrior has a C'Thun-based minion card that gives him 10 armor if his C'Thun is above some certain, easily achievable life total? In other words, that's essentially 10 extra life instantly that you have to chew through, and a powerful body on the board, in addition to all the other cards that give warriors armor and make them hard to kill. The amount of pressure you would have to put on a warrior to kill him with mechanics like these is insane. This is probably why Warrior is the most popular deck in the meta right now. They can draw the game out forever until they can drop their C'Thun, and there is very few ways to stop that.

Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 13, 2016, 12:25:27 PM
Yes, I know this card, was laso palyed several times by the warrioir, the last time at the very end (last turn). Not that this saved him but yes, this very much is intended to drag on the game even MORE than it already is.

I'm happy that I'm busy with Duelyst and now Chronicle again. The new cards are interesting, however I'm struggling to see where his role fits. The other heroes have been more obvious what they are about, what they do and how to play them correctly.
Morvran seems only about killing monsters and piling up these contracts. He probably is the opposite of Arianne, instead of more support cards you have more monster cards.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on July 13, 2016, 04:38:35 PM
In other news, you can have some terribly nasty boards with a card called Khymera :D

(http://i.imgur.com/pXuIqvT.jpg)
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on July 14, 2016, 07:20:08 AM
I have a feeling this thread LONG since stopped being about Hearthstone.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Misery on July 14, 2016, 08:08:27 AM
In this place, that's inevitable, wouldn't you say?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Mánagarmr on July 14, 2016, 12:32:03 PM
In this place, that's inevitable, wouldn't you say?
Probably yes.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Toranth on July 14, 2016, 12:42:04 PM
I have a feeling this thread LONG since stopped being about Hearthstone.
Hey, there was a post about Hearthstone just yesterday!  That's good enough, right?
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on July 17, 2016, 11:26:33 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3zZMfkI.gif)

I finally did it boys. Damn I thought I would never get there.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 18, 2016, 03:45:17 AM
I assume this is draft? Congratulations.

My exceptions aren't very high about draft game mode. The problem with draft mode in most games is that you don't know what you draw next. This is of course the motivation to play because you have to deal with what you get.
The main problem (for me) is, you might think "this card is good so I take it" but the problem is you cannot get other good cards that yu can combine with it, destroying your intended strategy. Chronicle somewhat makes a first attempt to counter this. In it's draft mode "dungeon" you are presented four cards and can pick two instead of one. This allows you to select cards that might combine well together and you aren't relying on what you might get next.
That are just my thoughts however.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 22, 2016, 06:03:12 AM
Stoneblade Entertainment, developers of Solforge, announced that at a specific date (still to be announced) every player who logs into the game will receive 1300 free gold (premium currency). This is a very good offer, you can either buy 1 themed booster pack (newest expansion), 4 normal booster packs 8contains all expansions), almost a complete deck (costs 1350), 2 event tickets (used to enter tournaments) or the card of the day (900 gold, may have alternate art).
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 22, 2016, 07:57:56 PM
The free gold has been released. It's now 1500 instead of 1300.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/232450/

Funny enough they removed all decks and only added a themed decxk for Uterra. Also an Uterra themed legenadary chest with alternate art cards.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on July 23, 2016, 02:59:22 AM
So what's the deal with that? Is it free any time, or on a specific date? Earlier you said you had to log in on a specific date. The Steam store page isn't giving any information about it.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 23, 2016, 07:21:26 PM
It is right now free. You have to log in and go to the store and "pay" 1 silver (there does not seem to be another way for this). You get the silver to pay once you log in.
You get 1500 gold for that. I'm currently looking what is best advised to buy for it.
I wouldn't buy normal boosters to be honest, you get them really easy with normal gameplay anyway.
This offer lasts for 48 hours, so until tomorrow I guess.

The current card of the day is Soulreap for 900 gold. The card is pretty bad in normal decks but can be good in Allyoin/Nekrium decks that focus on attack debuffs. If youw ant to buy this card, look out for cards like metatransfer, sap and electirc net. They are all common cards, so easy to get and they reduce a good amount of the attack of enemy creatures. Sap even reduces the attack to zero.
On Nekrium cards you might want to get Epidemic (good card in every nekrium deck anywayx but has heroic rarity), Vyrics Embrace (common) and bitterfrost totem. You may also want to add Xraths Will, however than you have to build a zombie deck.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 24, 2016, 04:14:01 AM
Card of the day is now a good Uterra legendary creature. The card has good stats and very good abilities. It has breakthrough (exceeding damage to creatures goes directly to the enemy player) and gets bonus attack and health every time it deals damage to the enemy player.
The card costs 300 gold which is a fair price.
If you buy this card, build an Uterra/Tempys deck centered around direct damage and aggressive. Creatures that benefit from directly attacking the oppenent will most of the time be blocked by tanky creatures, so aggressive can help you to land an attack before this happens.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 26, 2016, 04:21:52 AM
I found something that might help new Solforge players.
There are two promo codes that give 5 booster packs each. These packs are redeemable on any account you create.
In order to redeem your free packs go to thhis website and enter the code: http://solforgegame.com/redeem/
You have to log-in/register before of course. I tried the codes myself and they work.

ASC_FREE_PACKS
SCG_FREE_PACKS

These are basic booster packs, meaning they contain cards of any set currently released.
The chance to get a legendary in a booster pack is 10% so you can except to get at least one (still might get none but in my experience you rather get two then none). There is also a 50% chance on getting a heroic card in each pack, so except around 4-6 heroics.
Each pack contains 6 cards, so have a starting set of 60 free cards.

In Solforge you build decks out of 30 cards. Most cards (but not all, more to that later)  have three levels. No matter what card you get from a pack, you always get all three levels of that card. In a match both players dra 5 cards each turn and at the end of their turn they discard all cards to draw five new cards. You can play up to two cards each turn. You may also discard a card instead of playing it. Playing or discarding a card levels this card up and places the level up version into the discard pile. You might have noticed that at the rate of drawing new cards you will soon empty your deck. However, after four turns each player shuffles their discard pile back into their deck. This allows you to drawnow the leveled up versions of your cards. Leveled up versions are stronger or get new effects. Some cards migth even change entirely.
There are two types of cards int he game, creatures and spells. Creatures are placed in the lanes and stay there until they die. There are only five lanes in the game on both sides of the table. You and your opponent play creatures in their lane and creatures in opposing lanes battle after each turn. Creatures are defined with attack and health, attack is the value that a creature decreases from the opposing creature's health or, if there is none, to the enemy player's health.
Spells have different effects that affect players or creatures, they can modify the values of creatues or destroy them, they can also modify the health of both players or give them special effects. Most spells target only creatures at specific levels, a level 1 spell for example can most of the time only target level 1 creatures. Higher levels allow to target higher level creatures.
The goal is to decrease the hp of the opponent to zero, there is no other win condition (except if one player quits the match).
There are multiple special abilities and effects that creatures and spells can make use of, here are some prominenent examples in the game:

Armor: Reduces the first incoming damage about the value the armor has at each turn for each player individually (so it reduces the damage on your turn and then again on the opponent's turn).

Mobility: Allows you to move the creature around the lanes.

Upgrade: If you play this creature on another creature (and replacing it) it gets additional effects.

Poison: Deals damage equal to its value towards the player or creature at each turn individually.

Aggressive: Battles whenever it can, even in the round summoned. Negates defender.

Defender: Does not battle unless the oppossing monster initiates a battle.

Breakthrough: Damge that exceeds the health of the oppsing creature damages the enemy player.

Regenerate: Heals damage equal to the value of regenerate each turn individualy.


There are of course a lot more abilities but you can except to see these the most time.
In Solforge you have to plan ahead and think about what cards you need levelel up more in the upcoming rounds.

If you have any questions about the game and need more information I can help you out. I've playing this game since the earliest alpha stage and know everythign there is to know. I can also give you information about the current Meta if you want if you have soem basic information and grasp about the basic concept.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on July 29, 2016, 03:59:36 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/w8Q572x.jpg)

I finally did it. Holy sh*t. I am shaking. That was tough.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on July 30, 2016, 03:43:04 PM
Re: Solforge

Tried it..
No rewards for losing in PVP
No Rewards for wins against AI
No Rewards for playing whatsoever, daily quests aside, which are not as easy as you would think with a starter deck...
Sigh ( I tried a few ranked matches, and faced off against decks with so many synergies that they were clearly paid-for decks, not normally new player constructed whatsoever)

I got 6 tickets in my first few (AI campaign) wins (no idea what to do with them) but now I am stuck with the starter deck +15 boosters that gave me cards for which I have zero synergies in my decks, for the most part these boosters gave me cards I already had (ie, starter decks)... and my 3 legendaries were all kinda bad spells. Alltogether from 15 boosters I got maybe 10 cards I didn't already have (in terms of plain STARTING decks).

Re: Spellweaver

Tried it.. again I must say
Matchmaking took a good 200 seconds each time ~.~
Quests are fun but.. expansion costs money and cards don't drop from it if you don't own it. (HS principle, hate it)
Crafting requires you to have a ton of cards

In both I must say the first play experience is also atrociously bad ;P
Sadly enough, the game that (For me) play wise would be most interesting is Spellweaver... but matchmaking taking THAT long is just no fun whatsoever.


Overall, this was a kinda meh experiment.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: Wingflier on July 30, 2016, 04:18:48 PM
Eraser, what did you think of Duelyst?

I don't remember if you had given your opinion. That game rewards the sh*t out of you.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on July 30, 2016, 04:59:15 PM
Eraser, what did you think of Duelyst?

I don't remember if you had given your opinion. That game rewards the sh*t out of you.

Yeah I actually kinda like Duelyst and the win / game rewards ;) Just generally suck at it once I reach rank 20~... for now, so no opinion yet.

I still play it semi regularly to be honest, it's by FAR the only game that is not pay to win, or at least doesn't feel like it.

Ps.: And it's the only game that takes its lore serious. Love the codex, the descriptions of the ages, the monsters.. and it's the only pixel art game that doesn't look horrendous in motion.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 30, 2016, 08:40:12 PM
You can bulk scrap double cards for silver (include sharable cards because otherwise he won't include all) and then forge the needed cards.
You can also ask someone if he is willing to share his cards with you since the owner of the cards won't loose them, he simply copies them over to you.
Event tickets are used for tournaments, I suggest draft since you keep cards you drafted. This is a good way to improve your collection, even if you don't intend to win the tournament you can simply select cards you need for your collection. Even if you loose the tournament you get one booster pack.

In the later caomaign missions (the harder ones) you get forgeborns. Forgenorns are the strongest cards int he game because they have FOUR level compared to the usual three. The first Forgeborn you can get is Oros who is also currently stong in the meta.

hee is also a list of some good budget decks for beginner players: https://solforgegame.com/forum/strategy-discussion/best-budget-deck-thread-6-or-less-legendary/

I still have tons of shareable cards too, if you want.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on July 30, 2016, 09:05:25 PM
Nah I can only focus on 1 such game.. and for now it's Duelyst... Kinda like that even the games where I lose, it is usually pretty close or rather a case of "me not knowing the cards yet" ,) In Solforge it was usually total rofl stomps (of my 7 rounds pvp, 7 were losses) which is about as much fun as it sounds for a new player, also makes me wonder wtf matchmaking was doing, or whether that really doesn't do ANY matchmaking.... which would be super odd.

And I can't even get through the first real campaign mission, the one with that infinity healing dude...  as I said, those 10 booster packs were really nice, but they gave me nothing of ANY value for my card synergies (And I am missing half of each of Budget deck, at the very least)...  so I am left with cards that don't synergize together and no apparent way to gain more gold/boosters. And tournament with drafted cards is not exactly helpful when you, like me, don't know 99% of the cards since you only see them fly by in constructed, that's too much wasted time for 1 booster..... and I can't seem to find any way to watch proper replays or see proper card descriptions.... also in Solforge one thing that annoys me completely is that poison is negated by armor and doesn't lower attack :-\ So it's a completely useless ability.... could have saved me from 1 embarassing loss at the very least, if the game had actually explained poison properly ;/

And when it comes down to it, the way the rounds work in Solforge drives me insane. There is way too much fluctuation in a round due to massive roflstomp spells that just flat out reduce attack/HP on everything... so to me, it feels like the amped up version of a slot machine.

I feel like at no point, even though I did all the tutorials and tried my best, I had never a clue wtf was going on in Solforge. The oddly lopsided and against clearly vastly better decks than mine PVP didn't help my learning either. Compared to that, Duelyst eases you softly into strategy and bots that can chew you out proper.

Anyway, Duelyst is by far the best of these imo. Mainly because it has a 20second match making for the most part. Sometimes it's even instant. INSTANT... yeah.. Ehem ;p

My real problem with Solforge is that in the 2 hours I tested it I basically got nowhere. Yeah the game throws gold rewards at you at the beginning, and that is deceptive as hell. Because those booster pack are EXPENSIVE. Now admittably I don't know whether wins give you gold, as the matchmaking thought it fun to match me against.. well not new players, I guess.

Btw, one time in Solforge other player Quit just as I was about to win and I got nothing for the victory... so that is really MEH
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 30, 2016, 10:18:52 PM
Poison isn't actually negated but added as the first damage. This means if the enemy has 5 armor and you do 2 damage, there is only 3 effective armor left for the next attack. So in other words, poison and armor negate each other, not only one thing the other. You can use poison to ease up heavy armored enemies.

I agree however on the matchmaking. I count this to the new release plus client. Because of this you will see a lot of veteran players on the lower ranks because they haven't played in a long while or anything like that but still know the game better. i hope this will eventually clear up in the next month. hopefully the developers will also improve the matchmaking because currently it seems you can face platinum players in ranked when you are only silver or bronze. I don't know HOW this even works but this shouldn't happening. It's ranked ofr  areason, I rather wait a little longer instead of getting crushed by a player in the top ranks.

The first wins gives you a free booster pack, the third and sith a free ticket. playing three imes a day gives you also a ticket.
You get additionally silver for every win but I don't know the exact amount because the game does not tell you that you get any. You can only tell by looking at your silver count.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on July 31, 2016, 07:24:15 AM
Poison isn't actually negated but added as the first damage. This means if the enemy has 5 armor and you do 2 damage, there is only 3 effective armor left for the next attack. So in other words, poison and armor negate each other, not only one thing the other. You can use poison to ease up heavy armored enemies.

I agree however on the matchmaking. I count this to the new release plus client. Because of this you will see a lot of veteran players on the lower ranks because they haven't played in a long while or anything like that but still know the game better. i hope this will eventually clear up in the next month. hopefully the developers will also improve the matchmaking because currently it seems you can face platinum players in ranked when you are only silver or bronze. I don't know HOW this even works but this shouldn't happening. It's ranked ofr  areason, I rather wait a little longer instead of getting crushed by a player in the top ranks.

The first wins gives you a free booster pack, the third and sith a free ticket. playing three imes a day gives you also a ticket.
You get additionally silver for every win but I don't know the exact amount because the game does not tell you that you get any. You can only tell by looking at your silver count.

Well yeah, but so armor negates poison in that it doesn't really do anything aside from reducing armor once every 2 attacks (since a unit facing a unit is technically attacking and attacked, which both does the same thing* aside from 1 or the other being the aggressor and thus the one dealing dmg to the player should it pass, so there are 2 attack phases in 1 cycle) which is VERY much unlike MTG, where poison is on your unit indefinitely and it does what it does always. (That being -1/-1 counter, which can be a huge boon against certain extremely buffed units, especially those that have lifelink or major attack, units, that you really don't wanna attack with a matching force and lack the removal options ;p).

You see, in MTG I can use poison to reduce the threat of a unit, to feed off and to activate funky abilities. But in Solforge it's just a DOT effect.. which is exactly why poison is worthless. I bring on the field a weak unit that does DOT to 1 unit, but it only does that once every 2 attacks due to the way the combat works, meaning it's an entire wasted cycle where my DOT does not apply, but the unit I dotted can still attack just fine, up to 3 times before the 2nd cycle of the DOT activates.


Ps.: I did not get a booster pack when the other player disconnected. So either that is a MAJOR bug or the reward was delayed... but since that was the 8th match (first 7 losses.. so no rewards) I can't be sure it didn't count AI wins before. Which would be.. odd.

PPs.: So I get rewards for a win (booster pack aside) and the game doesn't tell? Why would a game not tell me when I get a reward? That is the basic principle of a reward loop. That really ought to be working and not broken when you release a game. Either way, I will give this another go.. next year or so. Because it is not a finished game imo. It doesn't feel finished
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 31, 2016, 08:02:08 AM
You may laugh but Poison is currently pretty strong in the Meta. There is a car calles Malice hermit that gets attack and health for every creature that died to poison, including your own. He also gives every other creature posion when he is played.
Besides creature poison, there is also player poison, but rarer. Since there is only one card that removes poison from players, you can drain out your opponent over time. However, player poison is not popular at the moment because healer decks are too popular at this point.
There are other cards that improve or benefit from poison (Venomdrinker, Leyline Vermin, Netherscale).
You can also remove armor with cards that remove abilities (keep in mind, this removes poison as well except the card says it only removes armor).

The reason why poison is so popular is because you cannot remove it or heal from it without also destroying your own abilities. Unliek MtG cards do not regenerate back to full health if they survive a fight (which is the reason why MtG progresses so slowly while Solforge is fast paced), meaning you drin your opponent every turn. Noxious cloud is in my opinion one of the best cards in the game because it adds tons of poison to every creature on the oppenents side.
Also, mono color decks aren't very popular in solforge except there is a good reason to do this (for exampel a Forge Guradian deck). Adding an additional color to a deck improves it a lot because you can remove it weaknesses. For example you could either add Nekrium or Alloyin cards. allyoin would allow you to add your own armor, level up creatures faster or remove abilities (not advised in poison decks). Allyoing have also a lot of damage debuffs.
Nekrium might be better for you, since you talked about MtG poison. Nekrium cards work pretty much like that, they remove attack and health with a lot on their cards. they also have a lot of instadeath cards liek dreadbolt and death current. if you have death current, put it ALWAYS into a nekrium or nekrium-mixed deck. It is pretty much the best kill card in the game. killign a random creature migth not sound like much but at level three it kills two random creatures.
You can also add some zombies, so you don't loose field control when a creature dies. It gets replaced by a new zombie.

Anyway, I know you won't continue the game but that are just soem thoughts and stuff I wanted to clear up.
The whole release was probably rushed and the client had a very bad start (players couldn't play at all). I still remember the earliest alpha days when the game was all about spamming Echowisp. Nowadays I don't see this card at all.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: eRe4s3r on July 31, 2016, 09:54:38 AM
Yeah I can see your point there about poison dominating in the meta if it works like that, but that is a really moot point for my new play experience with it ;p (And if you say that MM is currently mixing it up wildly.. then yeah) I have no cards for any budget deck or meta.. and my poison synergies are basically 2 cards. (Befuddling after 15 boosters, so well over 90 cards, but that is what it is...)

I couldn't believe what bad drops came from the boosters actually. In Duelyst, a new pack makes you all giggly because you might get an interesting new card that adds something fancy to your already existing deck, or gives you counters to strategies. But no matter what, you always seem to get at least 1 or 2 very nice cards in Duelyst from a pack.

I just.. feel like this booster system in Soulforge is rigged. But that could be my limited (15 booster packs) experience.
Title: Re: Hearthstone
Post by: TheVampire100 on July 31, 2016, 04:34:44 PM
It isn't rigged, the problem is, all expansions, all sets are in the same booster, so with every exapnsion your chance of getting the specific card you need gets smaller and smaller. That's also why people that played the game since alpha have an advantage. Not because they bought their cards with real money but because the chance of getting cards they needed has been higher back there.
In my opinion this system does not work. Whenever they release a new expanion, you have a smaller chance of getting specific cards. The chance of getting legendaries is high, the chance of getting a legenadary you need however is terrible. You will most liekely end with legendaries you cannot use at the moment because you lack other cards. Using silver to forge some cards is clearly the best option at the start to get some of the more important cards. It is advised to look what legendaries you have from free boosters and then check what cards in the same faction would help you with that legendary.

The card pool of duelyst is a lot lower compared to the card pool of Solforge, that's why your chance of getting more useful cards is easier. I got already packs with no useful cards at all three times in a row but the chance is slimmer because there aren't many cards to begin with. Solforge has a lot more cards and that's why the current booster pack system does not work. Yo have literally no chance to get exactly the card you need. and it gets only worse because they regulary release new sets with new mechanics. They should seperate the different sets in their own boosters. This would improve the deck building quality a lot.