Author Topic: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic  (Read 21612 times)

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #165 on: February 12, 2016, 12:37:29 pm »
Sorry, I cannot take this thread seriously anymore.
And why would that be?
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Offline Underfot

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #166 on: February 12, 2016, 01:34:34 pm »
Sorry for jumping into this discussion as an unknown quantity, but I've been following it with some interest...
Question for SK and Wingflier:
When is the threshhold for violence crossed?  When would you literally and figuratively pull the trigger?
For example; I knock on your door.  I introduce myself and explain I just moved in to the neighbourhood and could I please borrow a ladder? 
Do you have a gun at the ready?  Would you turn your back on me at any point?
How much are you willing to trust a stranger, and how much do you think, as a society, we should trust a stranger?
I hope this comes across as an honest question, I do have a bias in this discussion but I'm curious as to your point(s) of view....

Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #167 on: February 12, 2016, 02:46:02 pm »
Sorry, I cannot take this thread seriously anymore.

I'm with you. I'm done with this thread. I've quite frankly lost the ability to keep this civil, so instead of being a jerk, I'll just see myself out.
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Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #168 on: February 12, 2016, 03:19:25 pm »
When is the threshhold for violence crossed?  When would you literally and figuratively pull the trigger?
For example; I knock on your door.  I introduce myself and explain I just moved in to the neighbourhood and could I please borrow a ladder? 
Do you have a gun at the ready?  Would you turn your back on me at any point?
Depends on the circumstances. Daytime or dead of night? Do you look like a hoodlum, do you speak like a reasonable person? Is anyone else around? Is your claim credible (i.e. is it even possible for someone to have moved into the neighbourhood)?
I don't have a gun at the ready because of legal reasons, but I might very well just keep the door shut and tell you to come back tomorrow if it's the middle of the night, there's nobody else in the house and you don't evoke much trust.

How much are you willing to trust a stranger, and how much do you think, as a society, we should trust a stranger?
I'm 50/50 on that. Some trust and some suspicion are both necessary; it's important to keep both at reasonable levels and re-evaluate depending on how things go.
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Offline Wingflier

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #169 on: February 12, 2016, 04:02:56 pm »
Quote
When is the threshhold for violence crossed?
That's simple: When somebody breaks into the house.

If a person is peddling Girl Scout Cookies or seeking refuge from an abusive spouse, I'm likely to help them or at least be extremely courteous.

If somebody breaks through a window or destroys my lock to enter, I will first ask them sternly to leave, I will then remove them by any means necessary. I don't own a firearm so use your imagination.

I'm surprised this is so controversial and emotion-destroying for many of you. If you don't want to get hurt, don't break into people's houses. I can only imagine the rationalizing for which this kind of behavior would be considered acceptable and/or the person in question would not be putting themselves at grave risk. If there was no inherent danger to breaking into people's homes, I imagine it would be a lot more common.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 04:05:49 pm by Wingflier »
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Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #170 on: February 12, 2016, 04:17:10 pm »
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Offline Misery

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #171 on: February 12, 2016, 04:29:42 pm »
Easy. One is a loss of material goods. One is the permanent loss of a life. It's not really hard to see why there's a different value on those things.
The loss of material goods that belonged to someone, and a loss that may cause them great harm. I'd say those material goods do have some good value.
The burglar's life is the life of someone who would do harm to others out of greed, and who violates the safety of their homes. Gets a solid negative value from me.

Firing at them is not the answer, but because guns, people assume it is (sigh...).

Thanks to gun control laws, any burglar I meet will instead be stabbed with a sword. Yay!

Working with the police and providing information on the burglar IS the correct response.  Dont take THEIR job into YOUR hands.  Because chances are, you're not capable of doing it.
Our views differ here. You may not trust people in general, I have only limited trust in the police. To be frank I find the entire idea of hunkering down and calling the police while somebody breaks into my home rather ridiculous. Oh, sure, there's the point that my own safety is at risk, since I'm not as well-armed as policemen are whereas the robber may carry a gun. Yeah, I guess I should leave the task of protecting my life to the police, too.

Oh, dont get me wrong.  I dont really trust the police either.  Not for thinking they'd be bad guys or anything, but mostly just in thinking they'd be lazy or uncaring.  It's easy to get into that state of mind in ANY job.

But that's not why I'd trust that they'd do their job.  Certain individuals in the family, particularly my father and my uncle, tend to have alot of influence.  In the end, their hand would be outright forced.  Actually when I think about it there's probably a few others that could do it too, but those two would get results the fastest.

That being said, I also dont live in a big city, where 10 squillion crimes are committed all the time (nearest major city is Chicago, and it does indeed have a high crime rate).  The police around here arent overworked, that's for sure.  When something DOES happen, they have time for it and tend to be effective.   There's only been a few incidents... such as the time someone tried to rob the gas station, or the time some damn fool kid broke into my car (and got nothing of real importance out of it, I"m too careful for that; he did get some money, but frankly I dont care about that much, which is why I'm fine about keeping some in the car); both were caught very fast.   I tend to think that police in major cities are the ones that really have the issues.


On the note of calling the police for help though when a situation does occur, frankly, not doing so is all sorts of dumb and illogical.  Going into a fight on your own, when you COULD have backup summoned and approaching, is bloody stupid. 

Offline Shrugging Khan

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #172 on: February 12, 2016, 04:50:05 pm »
On the note of calling the police for help though when a situation does occur, frankly, not doing so is all sorts of dumb and illogical.  Going into a fight on your own, when you COULD have backup summoned and approaching, is bloody stupid.
I was inaccurate earlier. Apologies.

Calling the police is a good idea, of course. After that however, I think it's a bit careless to just do nothing further for one's protection.
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Offline Misery

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #173 on: February 12, 2016, 05:01:25 pm »
On the note of calling the police for help though when a situation does occur, frankly, not doing so is all sorts of dumb and illogical.  Going into a fight on your own, when you COULD have backup summoned and approaching, is bloody stupid.
I was inaccurate earlier. Apologies.

Calling the police is a good idea, of course. After that however, I think it's a bit careless to just do nothing further for one's protection.

Oh sure, I agree with that.   Just sitting there like an idiot sure doesnt help.  Sadly there really are plenty of people that would do just that rather than even doing simple things like trying to hide, arent there...

Offline Wingflier

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #174 on: February 12, 2016, 05:03:29 pm »
The average response time for the police (in the U.S.) is approximately 10 minutes. In ten minutes, a person could have easily killed your whole family and/or stolen something valuable. So yeah, call the police fine, but that shouldn't be your only plan of action.
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Offline Cinth

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #175 on: February 12, 2016, 07:35:15 pm »
I'm sorry, what? Yeah, sure, why don't we just execute everyone who commits a crime then because they're CLEARLY not worth their lives. Oh, hey! No jaywalking! *BLAM*

Are you serious? I mean, FOR REAL serious?

Edit: I'm sorry, I just have to rant some more here because this quite frankly disgusts me. How in the everyliving flames of hell can you value a bloody TV set over a LIFE? This person might get sent to jail and, as Misery said, actually change their ways and become a productive member of society, or they might not and remain a criminal for the rest of their life. But who the F*#¤ are YOU to decide who lives and not? REALLY?

Don't be absurd here.  Home invasion is more akin to sexual assault.  Having everything your home means to you, violated by some random stranger, is a serious kind of event.  It's not about the material contents at all.

My home is literally a sanctuary from the rest of the world.  It's the only place I can find any peace of mind.  I won't let anyone just take that way from me or my family. 


Sorry, I cannot take this thread seriously anymore.

I'm with you. I'm done with this thread. I've quite frankly lost the ability to keep this civil, so instead of being a jerk, I'll just see myself out.

So instead of asking questions and trying to understand, you'd just leave.  That's being about as closed minded as anyone else has been on several other issues brought up in this thread.  Think about what I said above and maybe stick around.
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Offline Mánagarmr

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #176 on: February 12, 2016, 08:41:13 pm »
So instead of asking questions and trying to understand, you'd just leave.  That's being about as closed minded as anyone else has been on several other issues brought up in this thread.  Think about what I said above and maybe stick around.

Oh no, I quite understand. I just don't wanna hear it.
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Offline Cinth

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #177 on: February 12, 2016, 09:11:23 pm »
So instead of asking questions and trying to understand, you'd just leave.  That's being about as closed minded as anyone else has been on several other issues brought up in this thread.  Think about what I said above and maybe stick around.

Oh no, I quite understand. I just don't wanna hear it.

Well, the fingers in ears approach works well for a lot of people.   ::)
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Offline Cyborg

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #178 on: February 13, 2016, 01:46:49 am »
So instead of asking questions and trying to understand, you'd just leave.  That's being about as closed minded as anyone else has been on several other issues brought up in this thread.  Think about what I said above and maybe stick around.

Oh no, I quite understand. I just don't wanna hear it.

I wouldn't worry about Cinth. He still can't say what he was proud of.
 
I'm pro-choice on the home invasion discussion. I personally can't say that I support killing anyone, including someone coming to steal your TV. If it's a theft, I think the obligation is on the person to retreat rather than attack with deadly force. If there is reason to believe that there's going to be physical conflict, maybe things shake out differently. But I think the distinction is important. You can't just say the words "home invasion" and have that mean lethal force. It depends on the scenario. But yeah, protecting your stuff isn't a good enough reason to kill people. Just my thoughts.
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Offline Cinth

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Re: Concerning America's mass shootings epidemic
« Reply #179 on: February 13, 2016, 03:09:32 am »
I wouldn't worry about Cinth. He still can't say what he was proud of.

It was in the second post I put in this thread.  I'm sorry that you can't put one and one together.  You need a research study to do that for you? Here you go, 1 + 1 = 3.
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Opened your save. My computer wept. Switched to the ST planet and ship icons filled my screen, so I zoomed out. Game told me that it _was_ totally zoomed out. You could seriously walk from one end of the inner grav well to the other without getting your feet cold.