What's with the new Guard Posts

[Kahuna]

So after a long break I started playing AI War again (today).. my quick first impressions: the game is unplayable.
Why did the MarkIV MRLS Guard Post 2 shot all (3) of my MarkI Raid Starships? Why was I unable to destroy 4 MarkIV Needler Guard Posts and their guards (~15 MarkIV Fighters?) with ~240 MarkI ships. I had MarkI Fighters, Bombers, Missile Frigates, Leech Starships supported by Munitions Boosters. This was like 15 minutes into the game and the MarkIV planet was right next to my home world. If neutering a MarkIV planet is half impossible 15 minutes into the game how the hell is anyone supposed to clear one later in the game?

Now that I look at the patch notes it's no wonder the Guard Posts are now insanely overpowered.

That patch basically removed Raid Starships from the game. Actually.. that patch removed the player from the game too because the game is unplayable now. You basically "doubled it". Don't go Jay Wilson on us. If you don't have time to release polished and balanced patches then don't.

See? My account didn't get hacked

Edit: Luckily I have 6.009 version of AI War on one of my USBs. I could play that but after getting owned by the Guard Posts I don't feel like playing AI War right now.

[Diazo]

Is there a conversation somewhere I've missed?

This very much sounds like the tail end of a discussion that's been going on for a while.

As this is on the main page, I'm just going to clarify for others that this (in my opinion) is not a serious post that has been made at the end of a discussion somewhere else on the boards about the new guardposts and Kahuna is blowing things way out of proportion.

Yes, the game is harder with the new guardposts, but that was the intended goal of the changes to them and the game is far from unplayable.

The exact balance point that the guard posts should be at, and if they are at that balance point now, is an ongoing discussion.

D.

[Toranth]

That patch basically removed Raid Starships from the game. Actually.. that patch removed the player from the game too because the game is unplayable now. You basically "doubled it". Don't go Jay Wilson on us. If you don't have time to release polished and balanced patches then don't.

While I agree the changes effectively nerfed Raids a lot more than intended, Hearteater has a Raid Starship Challenge going in the AAR section.  He's still doing fine using just Raids there, so I'd suggest that while the change was dramatic, Raids are still useful and viable ships.

The decision to boost guardposts came in the Worst Unit XI Poll thread, with more discussion in the Nominations thread. 

[_K_]

Well you fought MKIV posts with a bunch of MKI stuff. What, did you expect to win just because AI has no ships there?

MKIII-IV planets now have decent defences. You cant clear them by not setting them on alert and then just easily capturing an empty planet with a meager fleet. This is as fair as not being able to clear the AI homes with MKI fleet even if AI has no ships there.

Having one of those MKIV planets near your homes probably sucks, yeah. I could imagine how impossible a game would be if you started right next to an AI home.


And yeah, raid starships are in trouble now. I would see no problem if they had a buff to their DPS. Or to max HP. But not to both at once. Probably do DPS, so they are fragile, but if you can distract enemy defences, they can deal with those relatively quickly.

[keith.lamothe]

I don't mind buffing the raid starships (particularly if I get to buff the AI ones at the same time, heheheheh), but I think Hearteater's test game with them gives good reason to consider not doing that.  Do we honestly want them to be _more_ powerful than that?

[Hearteater]

I'm hoping to pick back up with that game Monday...holiday and busy work schedule just killing my free time.  But yes, I'm having no trouble with Raid Starship effectiveness, or Guard Post power levels.  Yes, Raid Starships actually have to care a bit more about Guard Posts (previously you just ignored Guard Posts).  And using Transports to blast things 5-7 hops deep doesn't work as well because the Transports get destroyed by Guard Posts very easily.  My only vague concern at the moment is the Guard Posts might be a little too similar still, but I haven't played with the recent patch that tweaked them a bit (notably nerfing the Missile Guard Post).  At the end of the day, you can kill any Mark IV Guard Post with a cap of Mark I triangle ships, and still have quite a few left over.

[Cyborg]

I thought that some guard posts were for defensive, some gave special properties to the planets such as shields or reinforcements, others launched counterattacks, things of that nature. I hope that's still the case, and they are not all Billy bad ass. So far, I think that's correct, although maybe they need to be toned down just a little bit. Some of these planet setups makes it extremely difficult to spend 20 or 30 seconds on a guard post and lose most of your triangles.

[keith.lamothe]

The counter-attack, shield, command-station-protecting, and stealth posts are still there.  I may be forgetting some other normal guard posts. The ones that were buffed/reworked were the passive, short-ranged, mlrs, missile, and arachnid (anti-starship).  They were already just-the-combat-value, but now they actually have combat value.

Doing more normal guard post varieties (more utility players than combat ones) would be great for the next expansion.  Maybe ones for grav, tachyon, munitions boosting, etc.

[chemical_art]

I don't mind buffing the raid starships (particularly if I get to buff the AI ones at the same time, heheheheh), but I think Hearteater's test game with them gives good reason to consider not doing that.  Do we honestly want them to be _more_ powerful than that?

Counterpoint is that it is for a very unique role, and it benefits more then most units for unlocking MK III's.

If you need to sink 9k K in order to fulfill its role, that is a given.

[keith.lamothe]

If you need to sink 9k K in order to fulfill its role, that is a given.

Yea, it's not cheap.  But should 9000 K really enable what Hearteater's done with it?  Let alone more?

I guess it's more a question of whether that 9000 K could buy you something equally effective elsewehre.  Examples of that?

[Mánagarmr]

Nothing to see here. Just normal Kahuna exploding over small things

[Kahuna]

Nothing to see here. Just normal Kahuna exploding over small things

I actually lol'd

[keith.lamothe]

We each have our own ways of expressing our opinions.  Some are more animated than others

As long as we get down to factually-based feedback and solutions in the end, it's all good.

[Faulty Logic]

I guess it's more a question of whether that 9000 K could buy you something equally effective elsewehre.  Examples of that?

Raids only cost 8000 to get to mkIII (IV). You could unlock the entire zenith and spire lines for the same k cost. Riots only cost 1000 k more. I think raids need a buff, in fact, I never unlock them.

I really like the new posts.

[keith.lamothe]

I guess it's more a question of whether that 9000 K could buy you something equally effective elsewehre.  Examples of that?

Raids only cost 8000 to get to mkIII (IV). You could unlock the entire zenith and spire lines for the same k cost. Riots only cost 1000 k more. I think raids need a buff, in fact, I never unlock them.

Fair enough that that's your takeaway from what you see in them, but my question in response is whether your not using it is because:

1) they're actually not worth it

2) or you haven't considered the kind of usage Hearteater is getting out of them (effectively supply his entire offense on a pretty high-difficulty game), where it seems pretty conclusive that they're worth at least as much as the lines of starships you just mentioned (with the possible exception of the Riots)

3) or you've considered it and just don't find that fun

4) or you've considered it and find it non-applicable to the kinds of games you play.  Which isn't the same thing as them not being worth it in general.