The Power of a Sun in my Hand... ARGH A GUARD POST!!!

[Bognor]

Anyone else noticed the Dyson Sphere has been horribly gimped since the guard posts got buffed?  For example, see the attached save.  The P9 planet in the lower left has my favourite minor faction dumbly sending Gatlings one at a time towards a Mark II Laser Guard Post, which destroys them in three volleys.  Even a Mark I would destroy them before they got past, as would a Needler Guard Post of any mark.

I don't mind that occasionally the RNG will shut down the Dyson Sphere with an unfortunately placed Fortress III.  But to me, it doesn't seem right that such a magnificent golem could be rendered impotent by a humble guard post. 

Do others agree this is a problem?  If so, what do you all think of the following possible solutions?

(1) Preserve the overall Gatling spawn rate, but have them spawn less frequently in small groups.  (Note that if my calculations are correct, even a group of four would not get past a Mark IV Laser or Needler Guard Post.)

(2) Allow Gatlings to shoot guard posts. (At present they don't shoot anything that could "wake up" AI ships.)

(3) Randomise the direction Gatlings go as they emerge from the Sphere.  Some would still perish but at least some would get through.  For bonus points, have the Sphere "remember" which directions lead to quick Gatling death and prefer other directions.

(4) Some combination of the above?

We can't really ask Keith to change the Gatlings' raw stats as that would unbalance one of the nebula scenarios.

[TechSY730]

I think it needs to be a combination of:
-Allow dyson gattlings to shoot guard posts if the guard posts shot first (they won't go after a guard post if their own accord if the guard post does not engage)
-Have them spawn in small groups
-Randomize spawn direction
-Make guard posts be less so "hard-countery" (nerf bonus DPS, buff base DPS a little)

[The Hunter]

I don't think this is that much of a problem. If gatlings will be able to handle it by themselves then we will not need to free them as much. As for making them attack guard posts, imagine dyson sphere spawning on/near rude gesture.

[TechSY730]

I don't think this is that much of a problem. If gatlings will be able to handle it by themselves then we will not need to free them as much. As for making them attack guard posts, imagine dyson sphere spawning on/near rude gesture.

Hmm, what about making it such that only allied to human dyson gattlings had the "shoot at guard posts that shot me first" logic, with enemy to all gattlings still retiaining their avoidance of guard posts.

Probably should make it such that dyson spheres can't spawn adjacent to homeworlds or coreworlds in this case though (both human and AI)

[Bognor]

I don't think this is that much of a problem. If gatlings will be able to handle it by themselves then we will not need to free them as much. As for making them attack guard posts, imagine dyson sphere spawning on/near rude gesture.

Hmm, what about making it such that only allied to human dyson gattlings had the "shoot at guard posts that shot me first" logic, with enemy to all gattlings still retiaining their avoidance of guard posts.

Probably should make it such that dyson spheres can't spawn adjacent to homeworlds or coreworlds in this case though (both human and AI)

Actually it's the enemy to all Gatlings I'm concerned about.  If I'm going to free the Sphere, I'll probably neuter the planet it's on, and then the human-friendly Gatlings go in different directions.  But I want the Sphere to be a thorn in the AI's side even before I free it.

[Histidine]

Awesome thread title

I think group spawns and letting them shoot guard posts (either at will or only when attacked first) would work best. I thought of giving them an unusual hull type that none of the guard posts counter, but this would require rebalancing the aforementioned nebula scenario.

[TechSY730]

Actually it's the enemy to all Gatlings I'm concerned about.  If I'm going to free the Sphere, I'll probably neuter the planet it's on, and then the human-friendly Gatlings go in different directions.  But I want the Sphere to be a thorn in the AI's side even before I free it.

Well, that might not do what you would think, given that the dyson in its "enemy to all" state will not spawn gattlings unless a human has some sort of presence (military, scout, or otherwise) there. I can't remember for sure, but I think putting that AI planet on alert will do it as well.

[PokerChen]

Well, spawning gatlings 4 at a time will possibly result in the auto-neuter of the planet, and also result in a crowd of purple gatlings "protecting" the AI command station. Worth testing, though.

To be honest, I don't like the very high bonus DPS of the current 7.0x guardposts. E.g., having both MLRS and Missile Guardposts on 6xPolycrystal makes everything significantly grindier. I feel like it's mandatory to get Scout-SS IVs for mobile anti-missile coverage - against GGGuardposts and ZenithSS.

[LaughingThesaurus]

Raids get missile immunity eventually as well, to help take care of those.
But yeah, it's super hard counter-y and not overly enjoyable in some circumstances. You at least still have ways around it.

[PokerChen]

Raids get missile immunity eventually as well, to help take care of those.
But yeah, it's super hard counter-y and not overly enjoyable in some circumstances. You at least still have ways around it.

Which is a conspicuous point - since Missiles are the exact weapon-type that get 6x Ultra-Light bonuses, leaving only Arachnids as an AI defense.   I'm going to try paradropping transports for the first time since the Tutorial many years ago - there's an AI Eye planet that I want.

[ZaneWolfe]

Actually since they are technically separate units we could adjust the stats of the Dyson Gatlings without affecting the nebula scenario. The player controlled ones use the same stats as the nebula ones, and the nebula ones are NOT completely identical to the normal Dyson spawn. A key difference, the Dyson spawned Gatlings are immune to FF, the nebula ones are not.

I would say the best fit however would be to simply allow the gatlings to fire on ANYTHING that shoots them. This allows Fort IIIs and Superforts to easily shut them down without an issue, as well as high mark guardposts as well, but it wont be a complete shutdown from just Mark I & II posts.

The coding on it wouldn't be too hard either I think. Just remove the restriction from shooting at MKV units and Guardposts, add in one so they can NOT fire on anything that gives AIP (I think they have that anyway) and then set the Target Priority for Guardposts and MKV units to something really low. (Like the old Armored Warheads. So low that they just wont bother targeting those.) Finally, add a script that checks to see if the gatling is under fire, if so check to see if the gatling already has a target to shoot at or is just moving. If the gatling has a target, nothing happens. If the gatling does not have a current target and is just moving to a location/wormhole, then the thing firing on the gatling becomes its new target.

Yes this would potentially allow a fast (or long range), mobile unit to kite and destroy gatlings fairly easily, but that isn't much of an issue. They could do it before and most AI units don't autokite anyway.

While not everyone may agree with my solution, I do feel SOMETHING needs to be done. Because a single guardpost of MK III or less should NOT shutdown a 10/10 Dyson Sphere. When set that high it is SUPPOSED to be a significant impact on the game. And right now its not doing much of anything in almost every game I play. Even if I deepstrike in and knock out every guardpost from my world to the Dyson Sphere, unless I actually destroy every single AI command station all I have done is give it a clear path to attack me. Because it certainly wont do much to the AI.

[Ranakastrasz]

Attack Guard post if and only if all it's garrison, and fleet threat in the general area, are already dead?