So, MkII transports

[keith.lamothe]

Don't know if I like #2.  It's nice, but might be overkill.  I can always use a Cloaker Starship.

Mainly it's:
a) a quality of life improvement, not having to do the joint-movement micro or worrying about flicker during wormhole transit (though I think I've cleaned up a lot of that recently), etc
b) an effective speed improvement when "in stealth".  Cloaker starships aren't all that slow (iirc) but nothing to transport speed.

Not a fan of #4.  I'd prefer to focus on getting them to the target, and not kiting AI ships with the Transports insane speed.

Yea, that's a legitimate concern, but I think just making it a short range weapon would help.

Hahaha, maybe I could make it melee range, with the cutlass's self-damage rule

Assault Drop-pod.  Ramming Speed!

Though really the main reason I went with the idea of the attack was something that would let you "toggle off" the cloak to get the damage sponge back, which self-hurt melee wouldn't really do.


On the FF-on-death thing that's a pretty optional part of the idea; a per-planet cap of 1 with a 5 second duration would be fine.  Or maybe "can only trigger once per 10 seconds per planet" and a lifetime of 5 seconds.  Or we can just leave it out; it's just trying to provide some additional support to the troops that just got unceremoniously dumped into combat.

[TechSY730]

(1) If it's going to be that different to the Mk-I transport, we could consider calling them something else: like Battlewagons, or Carriers...

Also this.

Calling it a human carrier or battlefortress or whatever could be a good idea. It would still be grouped like a Mk. II transport in the build UI (appearing above the Mk. I transport and all), but be a different "slot" in the side bar.


The FF on death thing would need some serious limitations to prevent abuse (like building a bunch of them ahead of time, keeping them all on stand-down, only sending one near to what is being under attack and power it up to "aggro" firepower so it would be killed, or merely just scrap it if the FF on death happens for scrapping, and then sending the next one in only when the old FF is about to die, and you have got a large extension to the number of effective forcefields, even if it couldn't be kept up continually if it had long build times)

[Radiant Phoenix]

I'm still against buffing superweapons by an order of magnitude. They're superweapons, not I-Win buttons. AI War's superweapons are already some of the biggest in the entire RTS genre, the Experimentals of TA and SupCom aren't nearly as crazy.

My understanding is that the default assumption of AI War is supposed to be that you are outnumbered and outgunned by orders of magnitude.

I don't think most RTS games assume that.

My understanding is that Fallen Spire (with the Galactic Capitol) is supposed to change that to an even fight.

Remember that you basically only get two Spire Dreadnoughts (unless you capture at least another dozen planets), and that they cost about 16 planets of knowledge to properly unlock (2 for the prerequisite battleships, 4 for the dreadnought itself, 1 for spire colonizers so you can actually get two, 2 for the prerequisites for its forcefields, 1 for the forcefields themselves so it has the full HP, 1 for the spider turrets and 1 for the sniper module so it can actually hit things at range, and 3 for the heavy beam cannon turrets, and 1 for its heavy beam cannons)

Also the margin between MkV and superweapons doesn't have to be all that big, MkV is the AI's cutting edge technology that it uses to keep the Spire Empire at bay.

No, what's keeping the Spire from smacking the AIs down is that the AIs blew up the Spire transit hub and are slowly defeating them in detail with superior mobility.

Making these be for new tactics is the idea, yea.  If you just need a ship-bus, the MkI is totally sufficient.

Anyway, going more with the "Assault Transport" idea, seriously into "kick down the door and bust heads" territory.  Changes from the current mkII:

[...]

Thoughts?

I like it.

[keith.lamothe]

Also the margin between MkV and superweapons doesn't have to be all that big, MkV is the AI's cutting edge technology that it uses to keep the Spire Empire at bay.

No, what's keeping the Spire from smacking the AIs down is that the AIs blew up the Spire transit hub and are slowly defeating them in detail with superior mobility.

I never said that   The AI has much heavier units in Andromeda.  Motherships, etc.

But I think the whole "you got your zenith starship in my fallen spire stats!" discussion is a very distinct one than this thread.  Not that we don't derail all over the place here anyway, but if you're looking for change there a separate thread is more likely to move towards that than carrying it on as an undercurrent here.  For the record I do think the current individual starship HPs get simply too high at mkV, and it's largely due to an oversight on my part in how I did all that.  But at the same time some people really like it this way.  And let's be honest: despite the HP a mkV Zenith Starship holds precisely zero candles to a Spire DN in an actual fight.

[Histidine]

We already have a thread for the golem-esque starships don't we?

Lulz idea for a Transport Mk. II (non-Battlewagon): give it teleport.

[keith.lamothe]

We already have a thread for the golem-esque starships don't we?

Probably

Lulz idea for a Transport Mk. II (non-Battlewagon): give it teleport.

I think the Spirecraft Jumpship would not look amused

[Cinth]

And let's be honest: despite the HP a mkV Zenith Starship holds precisely zero candles to a Spire DN in an actual fight.

In my recent 7.6s, MK I+II Zenith SS are usually the last ships alive when I raid 4 deep into AI territory.  I've blobbed onto MK III/IV worlds, made the defenders mad, and left the blob there to die.  I'd often find the Zeniths and MK II Spire, the last ships in the system... merrily killing on FRD (yes I FRD blobs on MK IV worlds sometimes).  Both ships perform their roles well, the Zenith though, probably to well.

[keith.lamothe]

Definitely, I've been controlling "the strikeforce" (starships+ShieldBearers) via helper-role in my wife's current game and I've seen zenith/spire starships survive against incredible odds.

But the Neinzul Firefly's OPness has seriously overshadowed starships in that game.  There's not much those things can't kill.  Hundreds of mkII/III missile frigates can't hold up under the combined firefly/autobomb "space dock cannon", even with just mkI/II of those ships.

Neinzul Direfly, more likely.

[MaxAstro]

I really like the new Mk2 Transport idea.

To make the forcefield less cheesy, what if it followed these rules:
-Created on unload, not death (but is created if unloading is caused by death)
-Strength of force field (and duration) depends on number of combat units unloaded
-30-second cooldown (or whatever is reasonable) between forcefields

Tying the forcefield strength to the number of units unloaded seems like it would really help with cheese since you couldn't use empty transports as portable forcefields.

[Cinth]

Definitely, I've been controlling "the strikeforce" (starships+ShieldBearers) via helper-role in my wife's current game and I've seen zenith/spire starships survive against incredible odds.

But the Neinzul Firefly's OPness has seriously overshadowed starships in that game.  There's not much those things can't kill.  Hundreds of mkII/III missile frigates can't hold up under the combined firefly/autobomb "space dock cannon", even with just mkI/II of those ships.

Neinzul Direfly, more likely.

I need to give the Firefly another try.  The last time I tied them, they didn't seem that great. 

[keith.lamothe]

I need to give the Firefly another try.  The last time I tied them, they didn't seem that great.

There's the space-dock-cannon.  Remember you can grab a bunch that have been fighting and mob them onto a cluster of enemies and scrap them to trigger the AOE at need (you'll get more dps that way due to getting replacements so fast).  There's also:

1) Build full caps of fireflies
2) Have them shoot 20 times at a wormhole guard post
3) Load them into transports
4) Crash transports into huge enemy fleetship force
5) Fleetship force?  All I see are missile frigates now

[Cinth]

I need to give the Firefly another try.  The last time I tied them, they didn't seem that great.

There's the space-dock-cannon.  Remember you can grab a bunch that have been fighting and mob them onto a cluster of enemies and scrap them to trigger the AOE at need (you'll get more dps that way due to getting replacements so fast).  There's also:

1) Build full caps of fireflies
2) Have them shoot 20 times at a wormhole guard post
3) Load them into transports
4) Crash transports into huge enemy fleetship force
5) Fleetship force?  All I see are missile frigates now

 More abuse of those wormhole gp, I see.  Didn't you halfheartedly complain about my Neinzul Champs using them as gas stations  
 Transports? Ugh. I haven't used those in years.  Nanos + long range ships, evaporates fleetships with the added bonus of adding to my fleetball.

[keith.lamothe]

Transports? Ugh. I haven't used those in years.

Thread Title Irony reaching critical levels

And in this case the WHGPs wouldn't be so much gas stations as fire hydrants.

... yea, the AI isn't going to be happy about this.

[Cinth]

Transports? Ugh. I haven't used those in years.

Thread Title Irony reaching critical levels

And in this case the WHGPs wouldn't be so much gas stations as fire hydrants.

... yea, the AI isn't going to be happy about this.

Heh, I've mentioned transports only twice now in a thread about transports (three times).
Hrm.. Saboteurs charging up a WHGP to go nova... bait planet defenders to said post and boom?  A tenth of 400 M is a huge explosion
Also, why isn't the Youngling Firefly called a Neinzul Youngling Firefly?

[keith.lamothe]

Also, why isn't the Youngling Firefly called a Neinzul Youngling Firefly?

There was a terrible accident.