More useless ships... >.<

[Kahuna]

Infiltrators used to be good but then they took the dark matter ammo in a knee..... Infiltrators used to have Flare ammo type which was fine.. now they have dark matter.. why?
No but rly.. Infiltrators used to be good but not now they're.. "not so useful" thanks to the Dark Matter Ammo type. Ion Cannons and basically everything being immune to Dark Matter. There goes my good game and the map seed I found down the drain.
-______________- Infiltrators are only good vs Hybrids, Flagships and some guardians. Woppy doo.
EDIT: Core Guard Posts aren't immune to Dark Matter.. so they would still be useful late game.

Also Teleport Raiders are complete garbage thanks to their Minor Electric ammo type. I'd love to use them to pop Data Centers and other stuff but Nnnope.

If anyone cares.. would you(keith)/anyone be interested in a complete list of ships that need buff? I could list all "bad" ships and ways to make them useful. Would be just my opinion ofcourse.

[KDR_11k]

They're pretty good against core guard posts due to their cloaking and bonuses.

[onyhow]

Might it not be easier to just remove DM immunity from some structures and ships? Consider that it's pretty rare already...and well it does indirectly buff the CDM turret...

[Radiant Phoenix]

Dark Matter used to be the ammo used by Astro Trains (not sure if they still use it), which I think is why immunity to it is a thing.

I suppose it would make sense to group some ammo types by what's supposed to be immune to them -- e.g., Fusion Cutters don't work on big ships.

[TechSY730]

Might it not be easier to just remove DM immunity from some structures and ships? Consider that it's pretty rare already...and well it does indirectly buff the CDM turret...

This seems like a more sensible solution. Considering that there is a dark matter counter turret, I don't see much point in structures or units having dark matter immunity. Sure, a few could keep it (like home command stations, human and AI) but the immunity should be rare.

Things like ion cannons most certainly should not be immune to dark matter.

Minor electric immunity is also spread around a bit too much. Having command stations and bayve core guard posts be immune to it is fine, but not things like data centers and raid engines.

tl;dr
It's not the ships as much as it is the immunities being spread around too liberally.

[KDR_11k]

I don't see much point in structures or units having dark matter immunity. Sure, a few could keep it (like home command stations, human and AI) but the immunity should be rare.

I think even those should lose it. With the ATs it made some sense because AT attacks ignore shields but AFAIK there is no reason left to give dark matter a special treatment.

[Diazo]

@Infiltrators: Have not used these in a while, but they are FF immune and so I remember them being quite useful. On the Dark Matter thing, I randomly checked the wiki and none of the guard posts (that I checked) have dark matter immunity.

FF Immunity is powerful, but I will agree that the hull type changes on the guard posts have nerfed these, they used to have bonuses against pretty much every guard posts, now they don't and the DPS increase of the guard posts makes it harder for these to sneak in and pick them off underneath an FF.

@Teleport Raiders: These on the other hand I love. True, they can't 'raid' Data Centers or Raid Engines, but they murderize pretty much everything else, including a Wrath Lance.

I treat them more as 'Teleport Bombers' then 'Teleport Raiders'.

However, that was before the guard posts buff. Maybe now they don't have the punch needed any more to solo guard posts?



Having said that, posting a list of all the units and getting feedback on what peoples opinions of the various units are is probably worthwhile, I'm just not sure it's too soon after the guard post changes. Those changes are going to force us to re-think how we raid guardposts or specials near them.

D.

[KDR_11k]

Infils also have their cloak which often lets them get the first strike even in very hostile terrain. I feel that Infils are fine as they are, other ships probably need more help.

[Kahuna]

@Teleport Raiders: These on the other hand I love. True, they can't 'raid' Data Centers or Raid Engines, but they murderize pretty much everything else, including a Wrath Lance.

I treat them more as 'Teleport Bombers' then 'Teleport Raiders'.

It would take more than 7 minutes of non stop shooting from a full cap Teleport Raiders to destroy a Wrath Lance. They're complete garbage.

[KDR_11k]

How long does it take the Wrath Lance to kill them though? I know Infiltrators can last quite a while even at point blank due to their sheer numbers.

[Faulty Logic]

Anything with teleportation is far from useless. They are essentially everywhere, defensively, so your structures are a lot safer. And the raiders are cheap enough to be quite viable for remotely sieging the HWs. In fact, I often hack for them.

[Kahuna]

How long does it take the Wrath Lance to kill them though? I know Infiltrators can last quite a while even at point blank due to their sheer numbers.

Wrath lance one shots them. It one shots everything. It does 50 million damage in a cone in 4 directions non stop. It's basically "SuperFort+MarkIVHeavyBeamCannon*4".

[Diazo]

How long does it take the Wrath Lance to kill them though? I know Infiltrators can last quite a while even at point blank due to their sheer numbers.

Wrath lance one shots them. It one shots everything. It does 50 million damage in a cone in 4 directions non stop. It's basically "SuperFort+MarkIVHeavyBeamCannon*4".

Actually, not quite.

The 'Lance' is not quite 100% coverage due to limitations in its implementation. There are small gaps in the lance that will allow ships to survive for a short time.

It usually took 6 or 7 passes of the lance to kill my cap of teleport raiders when I attacked it.

On the time to kill the lance, it did not seem that bad. I was essentially throwing away a full cap of Mk I - IV teleport raiders every time I attacked, but I was doing 15-17% damage to the wrath lance each time. (I think that was before their health nerf too.)

As always, experiences will differ so that's my take on it.

D.

[KDR_11k]

Also the lance does not have infinite penetration, on large swarms it will only take out the first few rows, taking several rotations to clean out the entire swarm.

[Dichotomy]

High-caps are pretty good (or at least, not noticeably worse) in open combat. I would buff all the high-cap cap-DPSs by about 15%, which would be sufficient for them to have a role.

Teleraids are awesome. Basically, with enough resources (and patience) you can play defense-only if you have these.