Raid engine + Viral Shredders = Von Neumann Machines deluxe

[RCIX]

Well they are, if you have self-replicating machines with a 1ghz cpu each (so it can, u know, move around and build copies), when you have a million of those machines, communicating together.. 1ghz x 1 million = alotta computing power O_o

Hell i wouldnt be surprised if there's a planet somewhere out there that is jam packed with self-replicating machines (until they run out of resources), pretty much resulting in a "thinking planet".

Like the replicators in that Stargate episode?

(You had to know they were going to get brought up sooner or later )

[eRe4s3r]

Yes like the replicators in that entire replicator story arc (which i thought was one of the best of the entire set of sg1 story arcs ;p)

[Chimpster]

Been having an equal amount of fun with shredders over the past week and found that they pair up great with Leech Starships.  Not only do you replicate free shredders, but you also get the ships after your shredders are done with them since the leeches don't need to deal the final blow (a zenith power generator is definately a plus though )!

I'm getting raids of 200 or so fighters and they barely last 60 seconds even against the shredders purely because the tide turns against them so quickly.  Not only are they fighting against 200 odd shredders (where for every 1 destroyed, 2 spring forth in it's place), but they're also fighting against their fallen bretheren.

Usually an average wave nets me an extra 50 shredders (a lot more if it's frigates or starships) and about 100 fighters  Couple that up with a mobile repair station and you've got yourself a great free fleet builder

The only ships I build from my shipyards now are my tech 3 Bombers for taking down turret and shield emplacements

[raptor331]

This makes me think of a new way to put my Harvester Idea to work....

First obliterate everything except for the command station so the planet can recieve reinforcements...Keep a swarm of viral shredders nearbye in FRD mode, and BAM!!! You got yourself an ongoing factory of viral shredders....

[Shardz]

Viral Shredders are great fun when *you* have them, but as I've already stated, the are vastly overpowered in the hands of the AI and will pretty much guarantee an instant loss if they come at your home planet before you expand. It all depends on luck of the draw when you start a game I guess, but I'm still in the jury box on this one and think the Viral Shredders need to be toned down a bit. This AI is too sophisticated to not exploit massive swarms that populate; and on higher difficulty settings, it becomes painfully apparent quite fast.

[x4000]

Viral Shredders are great fun when *you* have them, but as I've already stated, the are vastly overpowered in the hands of the AI and will pretty much guarantee an instant loss if they come at your home planet before you expand. It all depends on luck of the draw when you start a game I guess, but I'm still in the jury box on this one and think the Viral Shredders need to be toned down a bit. This AI is too sophisticated to not exploit massive swarms that populate; and on higher difficulty settings, it becomes painfully apparent quite fast.

Tell you what -- for AIs, we'll make it so that there is only a 10% chance of success on replication.  That ought to do it.

[Lancefighter]

what about a global thing - as you have more, then the worse chance that they reproduce (perhaps with a detriment to the AI if thats really necessary)

For instance, below say 2x [cap], there is a 100%, then have it decrease either linearly or a shallow curve bottoming out at 5% or so (id say at around 8x cap, so in the 1500 range)

the ai, of course, will have more in other parts of the galaxy.. the player might keep them in one or two places to maximize swarm potential.

[Black]

Balance suggestion: When a viral shredder splits, the two resulting shredders have half the original's HP each. This makes it so that the shredding does not increase their survivability in battle, which should tone down their replication rate and make battles with them less volatile.

[Chimpster]

You'll end up with Shredders having only 100 hp after a while though so that would be far too much

Again, they really are already balanced for humans in that they still take 100 energy a piece, you have to have a LOT of energy to sustain massive swarms.  The AI doesn't need energy however so I agree that it could need looking at.

[Shardz]

Viral Shredders are great fun when *you* have them, but as I've already stated, the are vastly overpowered in the hands of the AI and will pretty much guarantee an instant loss if they come at your home planet before you expand. It all depends on luck of the draw when you start a game I guess, but I'm still in the jury box on this one and think the Viral Shredders need to be toned down a bit. This AI is too sophisticated to not exploit massive swarms that populate; and on higher difficulty settings, it becomes painfully apparent quite fast.

Tell you what -- for AIs, we'll make it so that there is only a 10% chance of success on replication.  That ought to do it.

Or whatever works, Chris, but that is a good place to start the tweaking I think. Thanks for looking into that matter and I'm sure it will probably change here and there a bit, but those buggers are just too nasty in the possession of an AI that isn't afraid to boost their replication rate.

[Black]

You'll end up with Shredders having only 100 hp after a while though so that would be far too much

Again, they really are already balanced for humans in that they still take 100 energy a piece, you have to have a LOT of energy to sustain massive swarms.  The AI doesn't need energy however so I agree that it could need looking at.

It's not max hp, it's current HP. You can heal them to full health after the battle.

[x4000]

Some good ideas here, but I'm always reluctant about changing too many things with one unit's balance at one time.  That tends to lead to radical swings, a unit that is superpowered one moment and completely trash the next, then a superpower again, etc.  At the moment the change is on the AI side only with regard to the 10% chance only of reclamations, and then on the human side with the hard upper cap of 1,500 per mark level. 

Those two changes alone ought to have a pretty striking effect in and of themselves, so let's first make sure that shredders are still even OP after that stage.  I suspect for the AI, they will not be.  I suspect for the humans, they may be, but by a little bit.  But I've been surprised before.  So let's just give that a bit, collect various opinions on the revised shredders in practice (not theory), and then let's theorize about how we can further optimize the already-revised ones.

I really appreciate all the great ideas, though, and they provide a lot of good starting points for further optimization with these if it turns out that is needed.  Thanks!

[Chimpster]

You'll end up with Shredders having only 100 hp after a while though so that would be far too much

Again, they really are already balanced for humans in that they still take 100 energy a piece, you have to have a LOT of energy to sustain massive swarms.  The AI doesn't need energy however so I agree that it could need looking at.

It's not max hp, it's current HP. You can heal them to full health after the battle.

The problem there is that you can't heal them after the battle, you have to let them regen on their own which takes a fair ole while

[rubikscube]

everything op in right hands

[RCIX]

Epic necro FTW!