Prerelease 3.181 (New CoN features, AI Ship Counts Down, 45 New Guard Posts)

[x4000]

Very cool!  Thanks for taking the time to do that.

[Diazo]

NP.

I intend to take this one as far as I can, applying the beta updates as they come out just to actually play a game rather then messing around with just a single unit or two like I have been doing.

D.

[x4000]

Yeah, I plan to be doing that soon, too, myself.  The pace of the really crazy updates are thankfully winding down now, and now it's about filling out a few gaps here and there, and just generally refining it, etc.  So that's a lot more conductive to a longer stable game, hopefully.

[snrub_guy]

With the youngster, is the first wave that hits me meant to have 1000 odd ships in it? Just checking, because although he is meant to do bigger waves, 20x bigger seems a little steep. If it's meant to be like this, I'm fine, I'll just change my tactics a bit or something. Thought you should know incase it's a bug.

Yea, 1000 sounds about right.  I was aiming more at 800 but it depends on difficulty.

They just die. so. fast.

So they're really, really dangerous to your harvesters because they numerically overwhelm tractor beams, kill harvesters before normal defenses can kill them (exo shields help!), and are too fast to "train wreck" with a mobile fleet.  If you manage to hold them down into a proper fleet engagement, though, it will be over very quickly.  There are ways  AOE is another solution, though without micro-low-powering your lightning turrets they'll generally be on reload while the majority of the enemy wave runs away.  Electric shuttles, with their auto-staggering, are probably the hands-down hard-counter to a youngling fleet of nearly any size.

But when all's said and done, even 1000 commandos aren't a huge threat to any truly hardened target, and they'll die to a decent defense before they crack an ff.

Hmmm, yes I noticed an unfortunate thing with my lovely lightening turrets- the all shoot at the 2 fighters that always enter a second before the wave hits, and then are useless with the main assault. Is the only way round this micro? Why do the turrets not stagger like the shuttles? Yes, they do destroy all non essential stuff on a planet- harvesters, turrets etc- awfully quick. Wrecked my economy a couple of times in a row. Now I have started experimenting with different defences. And OH MY GOD. Grav turrets? They are going to be playing a much bigger part in my defences. If The lightening turrets would behave, nothing would get though. Flak is my other route, and seems to work pretty well.

[Rustayne]

Amazing update.  The new guardposts look really cool and I'm sure will add another level to the game.  I do however think that they are very weak in comparison to what I would think a 2 mil hp structure should have. (MK3).  Only took maybe 4 seconds for 300 infiltrators to pop a 2.1 mil structure.  It took them longer to take down a a mk3 tractor beam then the guard post.  Not sure if they are intended to be this weak, or if they just need some more tweaking, but figured I'd mention it.

[x4000]

Completely seriously: why do you think the AI sends through those first three fighters?  It's specifically to cook off your lightning turrets.  I wouldn't be opposed to having a lightning turret staggering (I thought there already was one) like the electric shuttles, but I think that's a Keith item.

[x4000]

Amazing update.  The new guardposts look really cool and I'm sure will add another level to the game.

Thanks!

I do however think that they are very weak in comparison to what I would think a 2 mil hp structure should have. (MK3).  Only took maybe 4 seconds for 300 infiltrators to pop a 2.1 mil structure.  It took them longer to take down a a mk3 tractor beam then the guard post.  Not sure if they are intended to be this weak, or if they just need some more tweaking, but figured I'd mention it.

Well, that's because of the crazy bonus that infiltrators have against anything that is heavy-defense oriented.  It may be that I need to look at the infiltrators specifically, actually -- they probably would chew through fortresses on a similar timescale relative to the number of hit points a fortress vs a guard post have.  I'll be sure to check on them tomorrow -- thanks!

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, we had thought "we could put the lightning turrets on a similar stagger if we wanted to" but never decided it was time.  I think this is a good indication that it's time

[x4000]

Yea, we had thought "we could put the lightning turrets on a similar stagger if we wanted to" but never decided it was time.  I think this is a good indication that it's time

Cool.  "Make it so."

I've got a few other updates I want to work on briefly in the morning, and I'll then try to do a release by lunch.  The revamped lobby is finally done, pending some final testing, so I'm happy to have that behind me.  It's one semi-sizable item sort of off the unity conversion list, and hopefully it will help those two guys with the error on the old way of doing the lobby.

[Rustayne]

Amazing update.  The new guardposts look really cool and I'm sure will add another level to the game.

Thanks!

I do however think that they are very weak in comparison to what I would think a 2 mil hp structure should have. (MK3).  Only took maybe 4 seconds for 300 infiltrators to pop a 2.1 mil structure.  It took them longer to take down a a mk3 tractor beam then the guard post.  Not sure if they are intended to be this weak, or if they just need some more tweaking, but figured I'd mention it.

Well, that's because of the crazy bonus that infiltrators have against anything that is heavy-defense oriented.  It may be that I need to look at the infiltrators specifically, actually -- they probably would chew through fortresses on a similar timescale relative to the number of hit points a fortress vs a guard post have.  I'll be sure to check on them tomorrow -- thanks!

Yea, you might need to do that.  320 infiltrators took down a mk2 fortress in like 3 seconds.  While glorious for me at this stage, I'd go with a bit on the uber side for heavy defenses.  Granted, 3 lightning turrets hit it, and they all die, but still think they really destroy stuff like that.

[x4000]

Okay, thanks for confirming that was definitely the issue.

And actually, I'm going to go ahead with a release tonight, just in case labor happens in the night and I'm out for a few days -- this one has some bugfixes that are important, so I want to get it out.

[x4000]

New version: http://www.arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,6747.0.html

[Vinraith]

I just loaded up that advanced save under 3.182, after a pile of initial barracks-ing lag it works absolutely fine. Thanks for that. 

My pleasure!

Also, I love the art on the new posts. They look properly like non-human architecture, and are genuinely kind of creepy.

Thanks for that!  I've not had much chance to use GroBoto for the last few years, so I was pleased to have an opportunity to put some of my semi-rusty 3D skills to work.  Some of my older pieces with GroBoto-created models are here:

http://www.christophermpark.com/gallery/gal/12_Dreams_of_Steel_and_Coal/Blowing_Apocalypse.jpg (definitely a creepy one, featuring the main evil creature from Alden Ridge)
http://www.christophermpark.com/gallery/gal/12_Dreams_of_Steel_and_Coal/Broken_Gravity.jpg (one of my favorites from 2008)
http://www.christophermpark.com/gallery/gal/12_Dreams_of_Steel_and_Coal/Hangar_Scaffolding.jpg (kind of a rough sketch)
http://www.christophermpark.com/gallery/gal/12_Dreams_of_Steel_and_Coal/Power_Substation.jpg (pleasingly atmospheric, but rouch)

That is some great stuff, Chris. You've got more artistic talent than I thought programmers were allowed by law.

That Alden ridge monster one is particularly striking, I was already interested in that game (even outside of the "buy everything Arcen makes to fund more AI War" logic) and am even moreso after having seen that. Thanks for sharing!

[zebramatt]

what is the thought behind the gaurdpost art style? I'm not a big fan as is, they dont look like installations of any kind so the concept of them somehow being important to the ai- or ai constructed and armed- seems a bit abstract

That I love Groboto, mainly.  But also that they look like structures that no human would build -- fitting for them being from aliens or the AI.

My thoughts exactly.

[zebramatt]

Yup, it was a turret train. Guess I missed that rule. Fair enough, I guess I'm going to need MOAR LIGHTENING.

They can and will kill the turret trains, though, so that's a very valid thing to shoot at.  And none of the trains ever heal, so if it passes through enough you'll soon have fewer trains.

I'm inclined to suggest that turret trains should be a lower priority (although still valid) FRD target than most other ship types...