Author Topic: Prerelease 3.107 (Multiplayer econ+, ZPG-, counts+, AI overpopulation behavior)  (Read 2824 times)

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
The latest beta is available via the Updates window in version 3.060 or greater of the game.  Just open the game and you can quickly download the prerelease through the updates tab.  If you don't yet have 3.060 or greater, you can download 3.060 here.  This prerelease version is compatible with any vendor's version of the game -- Steam, Impulse, whatever.

Note:  If you have bug reports related to this release, please log them in the bug reports subforum with one bug per topic.  It makes things infinitely easier for us.  Thanks!

Looking for a Patch That Can Be Manually-Installed?
Because of the time involved in creating multiple versions of each patch, we only create manually-installable patches for official versions of the game, not each beta prerelease.  But you can easily create your own manually-installable beta patch!  Please note that current betas can only be successfully applied to version 3.060 of the game or later (if you later wish to revert to the official version for any reason, you can download the full raw files from the above link to do so).

To create your own manual beta patch, simply download these two files:
1. Current Beta Director Xml File.
2. Current Beta Zip File.

If you try to open that zip file, it will say it's corrupt -- that's okay, it's not really a zip file.  Finally, create a new zip file on your computer, and put both the director and the fake-zip-file inside it.  Call your outer zip file something that starts with Beta and ends with an extension of .zip.  Beta.zip will work just fine, or you can name it after the specific version number if you want to hang onto it.  And that's it!  Now you have your very own manually-installable package of the AI War beta version of your choice, which you can install by simply selecting via your Updates window in the game.  Please note that "Beta" in the filename is case-sensitive.

What's new since 3.106:
(Cumulative release notes since 3.060 are attached at the bottom)

-------------------

-On multiplayer games with three players and up, there are now slightly more resources seeded into game maps (including existing savegames, and increasing as the number of players increases) to make the experience more consistent with that of the 1-2 playr games.

-Raid Starships and Leech Starships are now immune to dark matter, to blades, to missiles, and to snipers.

-Sniper and Spider Turrets, and all the Counter-Whatever Turrets, are now immune to dark matter, to blades, and to snipers.

-Armored Missiles now only cost 20 AI Progress instead of 40.

-The slowing that happens to player ships that leave the gravity well now happens further out (16 at 80k, 8 at 100k, 1 at 160k, rather than the prior 16 at 60k, 8 at 80k, and 1 at 160k).

-Orbital Command Stations Mark II now produce 28 metal/crystal instead of 24.

-Orbital Command Stations Mark III now produce 40 metal/crystal instead of 32.

-Zenith Power Generators now only produce 200k energy instead of 300k (for the same metal/crystal cost as before), but also now only cause 10 AI Progression on loss instead of 20.

-The number of my/allied ships inside transports is now shown on the counts at each planet on the galaxy map view, same as it already was being shown when searching for ships using the Find tool.

-Colony ships no longer have an elevated priority for the AI targeting, now take 1/3 as long as before to build, and now move 3x as fast as before.  They are also now immune to dark matter attacks.

-Transports are now a low priority target for the AI (which means the AI will never even bother attacking them directly), and are now immune to reclamation.

-Regular mark I-III engineers now have "En" as text hovering over them.  This makes them far easier to pick out of a crowd, and easier to find on the planetary summary to the right of the screen.

-Turret Trains no longer cause an AI Progress cost increase when destroyed.

-Major new AI Mechanic: AI planets with more than X number of units in cold storage (basically, sitting idle as guards) will now set the excess units above X to be free.  Usually planets would be capped around 4000ish in the first place, but on the lower difficulties this provides incentive for players to at least partially neuter really high-guard-post-containing planets that are near to the player's area.  On the higher difficulties, it makes neutering way more important, and also gives the AI more latitude for interesting attack vectors.  The number "X" varies by difficulty level in the following way:
>= 10 = 3200
>= 9 = 3400
>= 8 = 3600
>= 7 = 3800
>= 6 = 4000
>= 5 = 4200
< 5 = 5000

-Additional improvements have been made to the speed of linking fg objects when loading savegames.  This is particularly notable with larger savegames.

CHANGES TO PAST PRERELEASES
=======

-In recent versions, the text labels for ships was not showing up in the planetary summary.  Fixed.
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline FrostyThePyro

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
oh quick question on the engineer changes, do any of them also translate to experimental engineers?

Offline SmileyFace

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
-Colony ships no longer have an elevated priority for the AI targeting, now take 1/3 as long as before to build, and now move 3x as fast as before.  They are also now immune to dark matter attacks.
Nice! Not sure about the 1/3 build time (it's already very easy to start building these off in a corner when a command centre comes under attack) but it's good that they move faster. Should they teleport, though? They already can, once, when they start building and I've used this to instantly get them away from remaining turrets sometimes.

Quote
-Transports are now a low priority target for the AI (which means the AI will never even bother attacking them directly), and are now immune to reclamation.

-Regular mark I-III engineers now have "En" as text hovering over them.  This makes them far easier to pick out of a crowd, and easier to find on the planetary summary to the right of the screen.
Cool! Look forward to testing the first change. Also, the second is welcome (the engineer icon is pretty small) and brings them in line with rebuilders/clean up drones.

Quote
-Major new AI Mechanic: AI planets with more than X number of units in cold storage (basically, sitting idle as guards) will now set the excess units above X to be free.
Interesting... More aggression from AI border worlds can only be a good thing.

Offline triggerman602

  • Sr. Member Mark II
  • ****
  • Posts: 366
Does this mean that the AI will reinforce alerted planets indefinitely even after reaching the overflow limit and all extras will become free, or do old sanity checks kick in before reaching that limit to stop this?

Just wondering if i leave a planet alerted long enough, will hostiles just start flowing out of it.

Offline superking

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,205
a new patch every day  ;D this is madness! (and awesome)

If the AI totally ignores transports, thats going to make deep striking a helluva lot easier.. maybe a hp nerf to go with might be an idea

Offline Doddler

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 287
The patches, they just keep coming!

A few questions:
- Will zenith power cost a little less from the trader after it's nerf?  At present, 1.6m resources to construct, it would take about 6 hours before the zenith power became cheaper than running 5 Mk II pgens.
- Will AI unit coordination be making a comeback after it was taken out?

Offline Burnstreet

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 129
It's hard to keep up with your speed of changes. Thats impressive and a very good thing!
I also really like your documentation and information work, there are many producers where I would wish they would do 1/10th of what you are doing here. As with most aspects of the game, great job!

I really like the colony ship change, at least the target priority thing, as it reduces micro on that part. Also the Overflow mechanic promises to make things more interesting.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2010, 09:51:22 am by Burnstreet »

Offline superking

  • Hero Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,205
Quote
-Major new AI Mechanic: AI planets with more than X number of units in cold storage (basically, sitting idle as guards) will now set the excess units above X to be free.  Usually planets would be capped around 4000ish in the first place, but on the lower difficulties this provides incentive for players to at least partially neuter really high-guard-post-containing planets that are near to the player's area.  On the higher difficulties, it makes neutering way more important, and also gives the AI more latitude for interesting attack vectors.  The number "X" varies by difficulty level in the following way:
>= 10 = 3200
>= 9 = 3400
>= 8 = 3600
>= 7 = 3800
>= 6 = 4000
>= 5 = 4200
< 5 = 5000

how about having AIP affect X?

Offline SmileyFace

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 125
Quote
-Major new AI Mechanic: AI planets with more than X number of units in cold storage (basically, sitting idle as guards) will now set the excess units above X to be free.  Usually planets would be capped around 4000ish in the first place, but on the lower difficulties this provides incentive for players to at least partially neuter really high-guard-post-containing planets that are near to the player's area.  On the higher difficulties, it makes neutering way more important, and also gives the AI more latitude for interesting attack vectors.  The number "X" varies by difficulty level in the following way:
>= 10 = 3200
>= 9 = 3400
>= 8 = 3600
>= 7 = 3800
>= 6 = 4000
>= 5 = 4200
< 5 = 5000

how about having AIP affect X?


Seconded. Doesn't have to be a big effect, but it would be better than a static number that can be remembered.

Offline jonasan

  • Jr. Member Mark III
  • **
  • Posts: 97
brilliant, brilliant changes. thanks guys

i like the increased incentive to get high level engineers and com stations.
interested to see how this starships/fortresses coordinating fleets works. sounds good.

back to my fledgling empire....

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
ZPG tooltip still states it gives you 300 000 energy. I guess it was just overlooked.
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline Mánagarmr

  • Core Member Mark V
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,272
  • if (isInRange(target)) { kill(target); }
Also, did you stealth boost the Science Labs? They now produce +3 Knowledge compared to +2 before.
Click here to get started with Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports.

Thank you for contributing to making the game better!

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
oh quick question on the engineer changes, do any of them also translate to experimental engineers?

Just the text display to make them easier to see -- not anything else, as they were already really awesome.

-Colony ships no longer have an elevated priority for the AI targeting, now take 1/3 as long as before to build, and now move 3x as fast as before.  They are also now immune to dark matter attacks.
Nice! Not sure about the 1/3 build time (it's already very easy to start building these off in a corner when a command centre comes under attack) but it's good that they move faster. Should they teleport, though? They already can, once, when they start building and I've used this to instantly get them away from remaining turrets sometimes.

Yeah, that's really not teleporting (per se), but them destroying themselves after creating a directly-placed ship.  You can use a similar effect with mobile builders (building anywhere on a planet), except that they don't destroy themselves afterward.  I think that telporting would be a bit much for these.

Does this mean that the AI will reinforce alerted planets indefinitely even after reaching the overflow limit and all extras will become free, or do old sanity checks kick in before reaching that limit to stop this?

Just wondering if i leave a planet alerted long enough, will hostiles just start flowing out of it.

Excellent question.  Wiki topic now covering that here: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Border_Aggression

a new patch every day  ;D this is madness! (and awesome)

Yeah, it won't last, but we're certainly in a flurry of the activity at the moment.  That happens from time to time. :)

If the AI totally ignores transports, thats going to make deep striking a helluva lot easier.. maybe a hp nerf to go with might be an idea

The AI will still shoot it just as normal whenever it is in range of their autotargeting and there is nothing better to shoot at.  Believe it or not, this was actually a nerf to the transport, and makes deep raiding harder.  Previously, when transports were present they would absorb a lot of enemy fire, providing some indirect protection for ships they had already ejected.  Transports could also be used to lead AI ships on a wild goose chase, which was also exploitative.  Now the AI will shoot at the transport if the transport is already in range and the AI has nothing better to do, but otherwise they'll ignore it.  Basically, the higher level "AI thinking" logic ignores transports, but autotargeting does not.

A few questions:
- Will zenith power cost a little less from the trader after it's nerf?  At present, 1.6m resources to construct, it would take about 6 hours before the zenith power became cheaper than running 5 Mk II pgens.
- Will AI unit coordination be making a comeback after it was taken out?

Yes, the next version makes them cheaper to buy that way -- good point.  1.2 million metal/crystal instead of 1.6.  So it's not quite an equivalent reduction, but I felt like they need a slight nerf in general.

And yes, AI unit coordination will make a comeback, but probably not in the next week or so, it looks like (we're gearing up for the next official release hopefully next week).
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
It's hard to keep up with your speed of changes. Thats impressive and a very good thing!
I also really like your documentation and information work, there are many producers where I would wish they would do 1/10th of what you are doing here. As with most aspects of the game, great job!

Many thanks! That really means a lot to us. :)

I really like the colony ship change, at least the target priority thing, as it reduces micro on that part. Also the Overflow mechanic promises to make things more interesting.

Yeah, the more dynamic and uncertain the AI can be, the better.  This should be a pretty cool new layer of uncertainty over all the other layers.

Quote
-Major new AI Mechanic: AI planets with more than X number of units in cold storage (basically, sitting idle as guards) will now set the excess units above X to be free.  Usually planets would be capped around 4000ish in the first place, but on the lower difficulties this provides incentive for players to at least partially neuter really high-guard-post-containing planets that are near to the player's area.  On the higher difficulties, it makes neutering way more important, and also gives the AI more latitude for interesting attack vectors.  The number "X" varies by difficulty level in the following way:
>= 10 = 3200
>= 9 = 3400
>= 8 = 3600
>= 7 = 3800
>= 6 = 4000
>= 5 = 4200
< 5 = 5000

how about having AIP affect X?


For the next version's stats, which are now affected by AIP, see this: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=AI_War_-_Border_Aggression  Good idea!

ZPG tooltip still states it gives you 300 000 energy. I guess it was just overlooked.

Actually, apparently I never made the change.  Whoops.  Fixed for the next version.  :-[

Also, did you stealth boost the Science Labs? They now produce +3 Knowledge compared to +2 before.

Not that I am aware of, but I will look at that.  Are you playing with handicaps on?  That would do it...
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!