Particularly Harsh AI Type and Option Combinations

[Fleet]

Thought we could share some of the AI combination that are particularly hard. Maybe 2 or 3 options/types max, since the point is not to just choose all the hardest options at once, as that would be easy. I'm looking for some creative options here, as an alternative to upping the AI difficulty.

I think Warp Jumper AI type with No Wave Warning would be particularly brutal, assuming there is not widespread usage of warp jammer stations.

[keith.lamothe]

Two Scorched Earth AIs?

[keith.lamothe]

Haven't actually tried this, but Speed Racer with Avenger enabled sounds fairly brutal

[Fleet]

Would winning against 2 scorched earth AIs, on a reasonable difficulty (at least 7), be winnable on a reasonably sized map (at least 60 or 70)? This strikes me as impossible at first glance.

[Diazo]

Yes, it would be doable, but it would require missile spam. Once you get several hops away, you are out of effective repair range so it's a one way trip really.

Pretty much what the missiles are designed for, although the AIP would hurt.

Now, knowledge would be the question though, science labs require supply so you could only get the knowledge from your adjacent systems.

That would hurt more in my opinion, looking at less the 20k knowledge the entire game.

As for the actual question in the OP? Grav Driller and Rebel Colonies. Good luck reaching that Rebel Colony 6 systems away when you are stuck moving at 8. That's 100 AIP each time a colony pops up.

D.

[Lancefighter]

engineers dont require supply...

... which reminds me. are ion cannons immune to nukes? Capturing and selling ion cannons can be a MAJOR source of income for a scorch earth player

[Diazo]

Can you even build a command station in a scorched earth system?

The description of the scorched earth does not say nuked, it says it destroys all resources.

Hmmm.....

BRB.

D.

[keith.lamothe]

Iirc you can build a command station anywhere, but it won't provide any supply (to its planet or adjacent ones) if the planet has been blown to smithereens.

[keith.lamothe]

By the way, earlier I checked the code for the Scorched Earth implementation and it does actually destroy the planet itself, unlike the "Nuclear Command" AI Modifier which just kills lots of stuff.

[Lancefighter]

whats the difference?

[keith.lamothe]

The Nuclear-Command doesn't destroy the planet, so you can still get resources and supply.  It's a relatively transient effect compared to a real nuke.

[Lancefighter]

oh. Well thats like scorched earth for noobies. Of course, the fact that scorched earth denies supply is a thousand times worse, but hey :p

[keith.lamothe]

The big difference is that Nuclear Command is an AI Modifier, and Scorched Earth is an AI Type.  If the modifier actually denied supply it would be only-for-super-advanced-players-who-want-to-lose-creatively, since modifiers apply to both AI types

[Diazo]

Heh.

You ninja'd me in the 5 mins it took me to run a test.

Scorched earth has the same effect as a nuke, except it does not destroy ships of any sort, both friendly and hostile ships survive the destruction of the scorched earth command station.

The destroyed systems have no supply, which means even an econ command station built in the system provides no resources.

Which means for the entire game (assuming single homeworld start), you have:

12 resource collectors in your home system.
13,000 knowledge.
A single system for energy reactors. A mobile builder requires supply, so no building reactors outside your home system. The efficiency penalties will quickly cripple your fleet.
Engineers do not require supply, so you could at least repair your fleet.

Assuming 205 metal and crystal and the most efficient building of reactors, 10 Mk I, 7 Mk II, 2 MK III, you get a total energy production of 260,536 energy. That is absolutely crippling.

In my test game I have 263 metal/s and 191 crystal/sec so to even maintain that I'd have to use the crystal manufactory.

After the metal hit for the manufactories, I'd have 34 metal/s and 2 crystal/s to build ships with.

Assuming you don't spend knowledge on economic stuff, with only 13000 knowledge the entire game, that would be a tough call.

So yes, I'm calling 2 scorched earth AI's impossible on a single planet start.

Now a multi-planet start on the other hand.....

D.

[keith.lamothe]

Well, you could knowledge raid your neighboring planets before taking them, and on a spokes map that could be significant K.  But not enough by far for a remotely plausible chance to win, I'll grant.

But yea, multiple planets could be interesting: sure, you can start with 8 planets, but that's all you get.  Plenty of players around here that could beat that without it even being all that much of a challenge.