Author Topic: New Player Seeking Help  (Read 2874 times)

Offline Bitbrit

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New Player Seeking Help
« on: August 27, 2009, 07:32:32 am »
Hello everyone,

I have been debating if this should be created in the "Technical Issues" forum or the "AI Wars" forum - so I apologise in advance if I've chosen the wrong place for this topic.

Anyway, I'm a new player using the licensed version of the game. When I am playing online with my friends, I run into a couple of problems that I'd really appreciate fixes for;


1) When creating a game for my friends to join, I cannot select which planet I start off with. My friends can, however. When I click the galaxy map, the icons just stay the same colour and give no feedback at all (I can't even tell if clicking them makes a difference at all, to be honest with you).


2) When I am in the multiplayer game, my chat log takes up half of the window (both width and height wise). This makes viewing my units and enemies very difficult as I have to constantly rely on just using the left part of the window.


I am running this game in Parallels Desktop 4.0 for Mac, if that makes any difference. The Parallels window is set to 1112 x 884 resolution and the AI Wars window is set to be fullscreen. I can provide screenshots if requested.

It's a brilliant game, brilliant community but it's just these two tiny issues that are nagging at me.

Thank you in advance for whatever help you may provide,
Michael.

Offline Fiskbit

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2009, 07:58:17 am »
I'm not particularly sure how to help with these problems and will wait for someone more qualified (Chris?) to take a look, but regarding the second problem, the chat log should only appear when you mouse over the message icon (the bottom icon to the left of the radar). New messages are displayed for about 10 seconds and then are only visible in the log by mousing over that icon, so unless you're getting a ton of messages at a time, it sounds like something is triggering the chat log when you're not mousing over, which is rather strange. I assume you're not constantly holding the cursor over the icon, anyway. :P

Sorry I can't be of more help, but you'll likely hear from someone more helpful within a few hours. Glad to hear that you're enjoying the game aside from these issues!
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Offline Bitbrit

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2009, 08:48:40 am »
...regarding the second problem, the chat log should only appear when you mouse over the message icon (the bottom icon to the left of the radar). New messages are displayed for about 10 seconds and then are only visible in the log by mousing over that icon, so unless you're getting a ton of messages at a time, it sounds like something is triggering the chat log when you're not mousing over, which is rather strange. I assume you're not constantly holding the cursor over the icon, anyway. :P

That's very odd then. In the circumstances this error occurs, I've been playing over Hamachi with a friend of mine. We usually spend about one to two hours per game session, then save at the end. The chat log is displayed constantly and I can generally see messages going back to about 30 minutes ago. I was not even aware that you had to hover over the message icon! This definitely doesn't seem right now  ???

Sorry I can't be of more help, but you'll likely hear from someone more helpful within a few hours. Glad to hear that you're enjoying the game aside from these issues!

No problem, I'll have a fiddle about with the interface and see if there's anything I can figure out from that. Thank you for your help :)

I'll keep checking this thread every few hours or so :)


EDIT: I've just been playing about in-game and it seems the chat log problem only affects me in multiplayer - if I start a new single player game and just spam the chat, the messages give the desired result of disappearing after 10 seconds. Just got a friend to test multiplayer with me and when we both spam the chat, sure enough, the messages stay on screen and obstruct my view.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 09:02:21 am by Bitbrit »

Offline Fiskbit

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2009, 09:42:54 am »
I doubt this is the case, but can you select a ship / starting world on the lobby map before other players have joined the game?

Also, your problem has been added to the list to be addressed, so hopefully we'll have a solution for you soon. If you find out anything more about these issues, please let us know!
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Offline x4000

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2009, 09:46:04 am »
That's very odd then. In the circumstances this error occurs, I've been playing over Hamachi with a friend of mine. We usually spend about one to two hours per game session, then save at the end. The chat log is displayed constantly and I can generally see messages going back to about 30 minutes ago. I was not even aware that you had to hover over the message icon! This definitely doesn't seem right now  ???

Specifically, messages are supposed to be displayed for 10 seconds and then disappear after that.  The older messages can only be seen by hovering over the message icon.  Unless there is a huge amount of chat going on, this makes the chat messages very unobtrusive but the older ones still available.  At least, this is the design intent.  More on this in a second.

EDIT: I've just been playing about in-game and it seems the chat log problem only affects me in multiplayer - if I start a new single player game and just spam the chat, the messages give the desired result of disappearing after 10 seconds. Just got a friend to test multiplayer with me and when we both spam the chat, sure enough, the messages stay on screen and obstruct my view.

This addendum was actually very interesting -- from what you are saying, it sounds almost like there is a difference in timestamps or something between your machines.  However, I just dug through the code and this is set on the local machine only.  So I am having a hard time seeing why this would be different in multiplayer versus solo, it uses the exact same code and I would expect it to function the same.

In the end, I think both most of your problems are most likely related to the fact that you are playing this on VMWare on a Mac.  The game wasn't designed to run there, and I don't have any way of testing on that platform myself, which means it is technically not a supported platform from us.  So the bad news is that you might run into some inexplicable problems that no one else has ever had for this reason, and for that I apologize and beg your patience.

The Big However:  On the flip side, you have no idea how excited I am that you are getting it to run in this environment, and I'd love to get it working squeaky-clean for you.  It sounds like mostly that is already happening, but I don't know what other smaller problems there might be that you have just not run across or really noticed yet (that maybe seem like they are intentional, if somewhat nonideal, but which are really bugs).  Who can say.

With this chat window thing, for instance, it seems like it is something related to it not being set to expire for some reason, and that makes me wonder if there is a problem with the accuracy of checking the Time in your environment.  It's always possible there is some other sort of bug, but I can't duplicate it and I don't see anything in the code that throws up a red flag for me.  So in this circumstance, the only thing I can do is give you a way to test this further, as well as a way to potentially clear items from the list so that you can at least work around this for the time being.  I'll put out a new prerelease this morning with those in there for you.  Hopefully that will both help you work around it, as well as help you help me figure out what exactly is different in your environment.

As a side note: you may want to consider using external voice chat of some sort (Skype, Teamspeak, whatever you prefer).  That's certainly not required, but in my view it's a significantly more fun way to play if it's possible.  But to each his/her own! :)

I have been debating if this should be created in the "Technical Issues" forum or the "AI Wars" forum - so I apologise in advance if I've chosen the wrong place for this topic.

No worries, this one is probably mostly a tech support thing, but this is fine too.

1) When creating a game for my friends to join, I cannot select which planet I start off with. My friends can, however. When I click the galaxy map, the icons just stay the same colour and give no feedback at all (I can't even tell if clicking them makes a difference at all, to be honest with you).

This is also possibly a factor of something about VMWare.  It's most likely something to do with the cursor coordinates being off, or the translation from "Screen" to "local" coordinates being a bit different or something.  

Hard to say just yet, but I do have something you could check in the current version: when you are mousing around the map in the lobby, when you mouse over a starting planet it is supposed to show a brown tooltip with explanations of the unit type at that location.  Does that happen?  If the tooltips are not showing, this confirms that it is some sort of mouse problem, at least.  If the tooltips aren't visible, can you try exploring around the map with your cursor and let me know if there is some other hotspot that shows the tooltips, and if so about how much offset those hotspots are from where they should be?

On the other hand, if the tooltips are working fine -- and/or if you are able select a starting position when playing solo, which was not clear -- then this is some other sort of issue that I will need to look into in a different way, and potentially give you some debugging tools for that, too.

It's a brilliant game, brilliant community but it's just these two tiny issues that are nagging at me.

Thanks for that!  Glad you like the game, but it's understandable that these two things would be very annoying.  I'll post here when the prerelease is out in a few hours, and in the meantime if you have any more information about that second issue, it's much appreciated.
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Offline Echo35

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2009, 10:26:56 am »
I've had some really wierd problems running things in VM Ware myself, including bad cursor cordinates and bad timing problems, especially running threaded code (Even though it was Java threaded code, which runs inside its own VM, the timing was still off :-\) so like X said, it may very well simply be the fact that you're running a VM. Have you/can you Boot Camp your mac and see if that makes a difference?

Offline darke

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2009, 10:57:57 am »
VMWare has specific time syncing tools (at least on the VMX/linux server side of things) to try and mitigate this problem, but time skew is a continual problem for virtual servers.

Especially when you've got things like authentication servers that will stop authenticating if clocks are more different then a couple of hours. Or the problem I had with an assessment system I'd helped write at university running on a virtual server; somewhat inconvenient if it thinks the exam finished only half way through it's wall clock time since it was running a bit fast. :)


Offline Bitbrit

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2009, 11:07:59 am »
Wow, thank you Fiskbit and X4000 for your responses.

I doubt this is the case, but can you select a ship / starting world on the lobby map before other players have joined the game?

Initially I said no to this but after trying some suggestions from X4000 (see below) it is now working both with just me and when other people join the server.


Also, your problem has been added to the list to be addressed, so hopefully we'll have a solution for you soon. If you find out anything more about these issues, please let us know!

Thank you :) I'm glad to see you and X4000 take this complaint so seriously. Just to point out a tiny error in that linked posting though, it says in *VMware* and in my original post, I said I'm using Parallels Desktop. They are similar in that they perform the same function, but their code will obviously be different - I wouldn't want you to be looking at the wrong product :)




In the end, I think both most of your problems are most likely related to the fact that you are playing this on VMWare on a Mac.  The game wasn't designed to run there, and I don't have any way of testing on that platform myself, which means it is technically not a supported platform from us.  So the bad news is that you might run into some inexplicable problems that no one else has ever had for this reason, and for that I apologize and beg your patience.

Ok well I can completely understand that. As you quite rightly pointed out, it's a platform you haven't tested on so I can appreciate I am in somewhat uncharted waters here. It's still a fantastic game and I'll continue playing no matter what.

The Big However:  On the flip side, you have no idea how excited I am that you are getting it to run in this environment, and I'd love to get it working squeaky-clean for you.  It sounds like mostly that is already happening, but I don't know what other smaller problems there might be that you have just not run across or really noticed yet (that maybe seem like they are intentional, if somewhat nonideal, but which are really bugs).  Who can say.

Well I've been reading the forums, checking the community wiki, guides, etc... and so far the only unexpected behaviour I've noticed really is these two problems. I'll keep an eye out for anything else that might be "suspicious". As I said above, I'm going to continue playing and you may hear of more bugs from me in the future, or you may not. I hope I wont encounter any more, but if I do, I can accept that I'm playing in a somewhat untested environment.

It's always possible there is some other sort of bug, but I can't duplicate it and I don't see anything in the code that throws up a red flag for me.  So in this circumstance, the only thing I can do is give you a way to test this further, as well as a way to potentially clear items from the list so that you can at least work around this for the time being.  I'll put out a new prerelease this morning with those in there for you.  Hopefully that will both help you work around it, as well as help you help me figure out what exactly is different in your environment.

Thank you so much :)

As a side note: you may want to consider using external voice chat of some sort (Skype, Teamspeak, whatever you prefer).  That's certainly not required, but in my view it's a significantly more fun way to play if it's possible.  But to each his/her own! :)

I will be using voice - but not just yet. My headphones are broken and due to the horrible microphone positioning of the iMac models, they have a lot of echo. Thank you for the tip, though :)


I do have something you could check in the current version: when you are mousing around the map in the lobby, when you mouse over a starting planet it is supposed to show a brown tooltip with explanations of the unit type at that location.  Does that happen?  If the tooltips are not showing, this confirms that it is some sort of mouse problem, at least.  If the tooltips aren't visible, can you try exploring around the map with your cursor and let me know if there is some other hotspot that shows the tooltips, and if so about how much offset those hotspots are from where they should be?

Well, I've sat here for about 5 minutes wiggling my mouse around and what do you know? I can now select starting planets! It seems like the only area that is sensitive to mouse rollover for me is left a few pixels of the ship icons. I've attached a screenshot to show you.

http://imgur.com/Qku1f.png

Red pixels on the star map have been edited in to show you where exactly the clickable area is.

I'll post here when the prerelease is out in a few hours

Thank you :)
and in the meantime if you have any more information about that second issue, it's much appreciated.

Haven't been able to find out any more information on the second issue just yet. I'll keep playing around and tell you if I find something - though I suspect the prerelease build would greatly help, so I'll keep checking back :)



Thank you once more Fiskbit and X4000!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 11:12:32 am by Bitbrit »

Offline dumpsterKEEPER

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2009, 11:51:01 am »
Have you/can you Boot Camp your mac and see if that makes a difference?

I've been running the game under Boot Camp (with Windows XP) for some time and it works great for me. I've noticed no differences between that and the standard Windows XP desktop I also play on.

Offline x4000

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2009, 01:16:01 pm »
Hey Michael,

Thanks for all the added info.  I didn't mean to put VMWare, I remember you were using Parallels.  I don't have a Mac or any of that software, so I can't test that myself anyway -- I'm mostly looking at this based on code, and adding in debugging stuff for you.

The new prerelease is out here:  http://arcengames.com/forums/index.php/topic,1017.0.html

For your issue with the chat messages not disappearing, if that still happens, please press F3 and then you should see some data (a number and true or false) next to all of the chat messages that are just sitting there.  What those numbers are, in general, will help me figure out what is going on (if the numbers are near zero, and fluctuating, or very positive or negative, or zero, or what -- the specific numbers are meaningless, it's a matter of their general range and how they fluctuate, if they do).

In the meantime, you can just right-click the message icon to mark them all as seen and that should clear your display.

Secondly, about the lobby thing -- that screenshot you posted was just what I needed.  If you look at the screenshot, you'll see that you are only actually viewing part of the lobby map, the upper left corner.  The game is supposed to scale the map down to fit inside that box, but it was still drawing it at full resolution.  The method that I was using to do the scaling was very Windows-ish, so I'm not surprised that did not port well, in retrospect.  The prerelease has the lobby map display working in a completely new way (more inline with the rest of the game), which should make everything look right and be properly clickable for you.  If it's still not working later on, I'll need another screenshot to see what is going on, but I'd be super surprised if this does not fix it for you.

Thanks for your patience!
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Offline Echo35

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2009, 01:32:39 pm »
Secondly, about the lobby thing -- that screenshot you posted was just what I needed.  If you look at the screenshot, you'll see that you are only actually viewing part of the lobby map, the upper left corner.  The game is supposed to scale the map down to fit inside that box, but it was still drawing it at full resolution.  The method that I was using to do the scaling was very Windows-ish, so I'm not surprised that did not port well, in retrospect.  The prerelease has the lobby map display working in a completely new way (more inline with the rest of the game), which should make everything look right and be properly clickable for you.  If it's still not working later on, I'll need another screenshot to see what is going on, but I'd be super surprised if this does not fix it for you.

Ah hah! That would explain Steam's chat behavior. Whenever someone signed on or sent me a message in game, not only would it pop up in the lower right hand side of the screen (Like its supposed to), it would pop up in the lower right hand corner of the map, like it was its own window.

Offline x4000

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2009, 01:49:21 pm »
Secondly, about the lobby thing -- that screenshot you posted was just what I needed.  If you look at the screenshot, you'll see that you are only actually viewing part of the lobby map, the upper left corner.  The game is supposed to scale the map down to fit inside that box, but it was still drawing it at full resolution.  The method that I was using to do the scaling was very Windows-ish, so I'm not surprised that did not port well, in retrospect.  The prerelease has the lobby map display working in a completely new way (more inline with the rest of the game), which should make everything look right and be properly clickable for you.  If it's still not working later on, I'll need another screenshot to see what is going on, but I'd be super surprised if this does not fix it for you.

Ah hah! That would explain Steam's chat behavior. Whenever someone signed on or sent me a message in game, not only would it pop up in the lower right hand side of the screen (Like its supposed to), it would pop up in the lower right hand corner of the map, like it was its own window.

Oh, interesting -- yes, it will continue to do that.  Those are two different DirectX devices/surfaces.  That's the only way to have the lobby map directx content embedded in the GDI-based lobby window.  AI War is a real GDI/DirectX cyborg. ;)
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Offline Bitbrit

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2009, 02:38:58 pm »
X4000, you've left me speechless. I've just downloaded the prerelease, installed it and all the problems I was having are now gone.

The starship map is now scaling correctly, as seen here: http://imgur.com/p8v9h.png
All icons that should be clickable, are clickable and I can set my starting planet with ease!

The chat problem, somewhat mysteriously, seems to have been fixed in multiplayer, and is still working as expected in single player! I've tried pressing F3 anyway and chat messages display the result of disappearing after 10 seconds.

Thanks for your patience!

I believe I should be the one thanking you for all your hard work. So, THANK YOU  ;D
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 02:42:17 pm by Bitbrit »

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2009, 02:40:06 pm »
Well, Rev... Looks like more of us Mac users are showing up here. I never tried AI War on Parallels yet (someone else mentioned playing it in VMWare as well) - but I will add that it runs great on Vista Home Basic x32 on a late 2006 MacBook Pro with ATI Graphics.

(Please don't get me started on why I don't have a newer, crappier Unibody Mac.)

Bitbrit: Please get used to being speechless. It's one of The Silent X's defining traits.

Offline x4000

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Re: New Player Seeking Help
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2009, 02:41:09 pm »
Glad to be of service!  I'm surprised that fixed the chat problem, as I really didn't change anything that I would have thought would have done so, but I guess it's just good that it works!  If it comes back, you now have the tools to clear it, either way.  Let me know if you run into anything else, but it's really cool that it is working so well for you now in general!
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