Moving to difficulty 7

[Quitch]

So I won my 80 planet game on difficulty 5 against Random All (one turned out to be an Easier one a Harder) using only six planets. My main objective was to keep the AI progress down, and it never went above 10 (~100 in the new system) and spent most of the time between 6 and 8. I spent at least half the game estabslishing a strong defensive position and building up raiding parties strong enough to punch through to data centres allowing me to advance into new sectors without worrying about the AI teching up. Starship scouts gave me massive range without having to invest any of my precious knowledge resources in higher tech scouts.

We won with raids which had to make about seven hops to reach AI planets, wiping out most of the resistance in the previous sector to provide a place to gather forces... and parasites rock, I had little armies of core ships among my forces having ensured engineers were on hand to repair them . The game needs a graph for Core ships, it's possible to get them

Once it was over though I wanted something more dangerous, the AI was too passive, the wormhole in my backgarden was too easy to shutdown with turrets and a small force as I kept the AI progress well under control, and the other AI was a camping SOB who denied me a few sectors with his super fortresses. I also liked what Fast and Dangerous did when I enabled it late on, it reminded me of switching Sins of a Solar Empire to fast mode with high resources, brings the game to a more bearable pace for the number of options available to you.

So I've tried a few games at difficulty 7, personality random all, complex ships and schizophrenic modifier. First game didn't go too bad, at first I was hurting for raids and expansions were shot down, but I switched from my favourite bomber/cruiser combo to go heavy on the fighters and suddenly blowing away the enemy ships wasn't a problem (taking the sectors was). We setup defences, turrets and mines, and autocannon minipod things started turning up and roaring on through, so we planted some sniper turrets and a mobile fighter defence force. All went well until I decided I was going to take a neighbouring Ion Cannon, failing to account for it being MkII and the enemy ships all MkIV. We destroyed their control station, planted our own, the defenders left their command posts, killed my force and then slaughtered my home system.

Next game I sent my scout into each neighbouring system and planted resource harvesters everywhere, then I setup a few turrets... whoops, the AI is raiding with minipods, now it has taken down my docks before I could react aaaaaaaaaaannd I'm restarting.

So this time we plant harvesters and then mass queue a force of mainly fighters with a few bombers and the odd cruister (6/3/1), the autocannon/pod things come in but now we're blowing them out the sky. Once I have the raids/commando station patrols under control we build up turrets, but autopods (I don't remember their name, damnit!) are coming in cloaked. Now it's time to spend research money on exoshields and tachyon positions (astro trains kill the droids) thus safeguarding my resources. After forty minutes we're secure enough to start vying for territory. While we can take out many of the neighbouring starships, gates and command stations, the MkII and MkIII shields are stopping us from being really secure, and attempts to setup command stations come under constant attack from patrols and sniper turrets (pathetically I've only just remembered counter-snipers). An hour in and we've barely made it out our home system, though that is looking pretty secure.

AI progress is at 30 and tech III.

Things I've learned at 7:

1. Get stuff coming out the docks ASAP, fighters being the best bet, they're cheap, fast and easy to get in numbers early on.

2. Don't stick your troops in the middle of the sector on free-roam, before you know it raiders will have pwned your docks.

3. Teleport Raiders suck. Hard. Good against autopods maybe, but nothing else, so with a schizophrenic AI there will always be something kicking their ass, and I can't picture them as being good against any AI sector.

4. Shields are irritating as hell, especially as the AI never seems to have MkI shields. Still, that's partly because I never think to use counter-snipers, because I'm an idiot.

5. Putting all your engineers on free-roam is a bad idea, they'll end up moving as a clump and stuff will die. Keep an engineer per wormhole and maybe one on free-roam.

6. AI core IV tech in neighbouring systems puts an enormous crimp on expansion, it takes me almost an hour to make any progress outside my home, I don't know if this is normal for this level or not.

7. Vampire ships thus far seem to specialised and the foes they're good against are too fast for them.

8. I love parasites and miss them real bad.

9. Difficulty 7 is very different. In a good way.

[Zulgaines]

I wish free roam engineers would spread out more evenly rather than clumps.

[Quitch]

It's a natural progress though, they will always be drawn together simply by the way damage tends to occur.

[x4000]

Very cool post!  Awesome to hear how it is playing out for you.

The game needs a graph for Core ships, it's possible to get them

I will add that, that's a very good point!

So I've tried a few games at difficulty 7, personality random all, complex ships and schizophrenic modifier.

Wow, you really upped the difficulty a lot there. I would suggest Random Moderate/Easier for most players who are moving to difficulty 7 for the first time.  Schizophrenic is mostly a preference thing, but it can make for a more difficult time defending your planets, too.

Some of the Harder AI types (which are included in Random All) are really much harder.  So when you mix those in with the other moderate/easier AI types, you'll see really uneven difficulty between games.  Not that this is necessarily a problem, but I'm just saying.

All went well until I decided I was going to take a neighbouring Ion Cannon, failing to account for it being MkII and the enemy ships all MkIV. We destroyed their control station, planted our own, the defenders left their command posts, killed my force and then slaughtered my home system.

Ouch.  Yeah, you have around a 50% chance of that happening when you take out a command station like that.  Nuking a planet with a lot of starships on it is another quick way to lose.

Next game I sent my scout into each neighbouring system and planted resource harvesters everywhere, then I setup a few turrets... whoops, the AI is raiding with minipods, now it has taken down my docks before I could react aaaaaaaaaaannd I'm restarting.

Putting turrets by each harvester can also be a really good thing, and using something with tachyon beam emitters (even Scout starships, if you don't want to spend knowledge on it) at your wormhole ingress points can also really help against cloaked ships.

Now it's time to spend research money on exoshields and tachyon positions (astro trains kill the droids) thus safeguarding my resources. After forty minutes we're secure enough to start vying for territory.

The new Negative Energy Turrets are also really helpful at protecting your wormhole defenses from the Astro Trains.

An hour in and we've barely made it out our home system, though that is looking pretty secure.

That can happen if you're playing a really tough scenario, it's just a matter of fortifying your core resources and then moving outward.  Looks like you're in for a long hard game with this one, though. Sometimes those are the most fun and rewarding.

AI progress is at 30 and tech III.

1. Get stuff coming out the docks ASAP, fighters being the best bet, they're cheap, fast and easy to get in numbers early on.

I'd concur with that.  Although, depending on what gets sent into your system, you probably want to have a mix of fighters, bombers, and cruisers.  Depending on your resource levels, you can put more or less emphasis on any given one of those.  I tend to build 10 scouts right at the start, my harvesters, and then start cranking out other stuff out of the dock with an engineer assisting it.

2. Don't stick your troops in the middle of the sector on free-roam, before you know it raiders will have pwned your docks.

Yeah, definitely.  You also could place some turrets near your docks (they are cheap, fast to build, and more effective than your average Mark I units -- the tradeoff of course is that they are immobile, so only good for defense).  I also really try to put lots of tractor beams and turrets around each wormhole, and augment those defenses with my mobile ships.  That's probably the quickest way to get a reasonable defense that lets you start moving outward, but I like your way, too.  There's no one right way to play!

3. Teleport Raiders suck. Hard. Good against autopods maybe, but nothing else, so with a schizophrenic AI there will always be something kicking their ass, and I can't picture them as being good against any AI sector.

This really depends on the scenario.  In the game I'm playing right now, I'm using them to great effect in my defenses.  The fact that they can move anywhere instantly can be a huge bonus, because they can really swarm enemies when in Free-Roaming Defender mode.  But if the mix is not in their favor (most the AI ships are strong against them), or you are playing against a Technologist AI like you are, then these are a risky choice.  They are definitely more defensive-oriented instead of offense-oriented.

4. Shields are irritating as hell, especially as the AI never seems to have MkI shields. Still, that's partly because I never think to use counter-snipers, because I'm an idiot.

The snipers really do comparably little damage to most ships, but for permanent outpost on a planet with shielded snipers the counter-sniper turrets are definitely a must.  You can take down force fields with EMPs or with higher-level bombers, or you can just ignore the force fields for a while and come back with higher-tech bombers later.  But those force fields can definitely make certain planets less desirable for a while.

5. Putting all your engineers on free-roam is a bad idea, they'll end up moving as a clump and stuff will die. Keep an engineer per wormhole and maybe one on free-roam.

Oh yeah, good tip.

6. AI core IV tech in neighbouring systems puts an enormous crimp on expansion, it takes me almost an hour to make any progress outside my home, I don't know if this is normal for this level or not.

Are ALL of the neighboring planets Mark IV?  That's just an unlucky map, that's a huge challenge.  Usually they are not surrounding you like that, but it happens.  Some maps are easier than others, and you won't know until you get in there and start scouting them out.  Having a Technologist Homeworlder also makes for way more Mark IV (and the rest Mark III) planets than you would otherwise have.  That's part of why the Technologist AI types are so darn hard...

7. Vampire ships thus far seem to specialised and the foes they're good against are too fast for them.

Hmm, this could be.  I probably should make the vampires faster.  They have turned out weaker than I wanted in general.  Added to my list for the next prerelease.

8. I love parasites and miss them real bad.

Oh yeah, those are always a favorite.

9. Difficulty 7 is very different. In a good way.

Part of it is difficulty 7, part of it is the harder AI types that you are playing against.  Some of the AI types can feel like completely other games, almost.  Glad you're enjoying it!

[Quitch]

Wow, you really upped the difficulty a lot there. I would suggest Random Moderate/Easier for most players who are moving to difficulty 7 for the first time.  Schizophrenic is mostly a preference thing, but it can make for a more difficult time defending your planets, too.

Some of the Harder AI types (which are included in Random All) are really much harder.  So when you mix those in with the other moderate/easier AI types, you'll see really uneven difficulty between games.  Not that this is necessarily a problem, but I'm just saying.

It's my experience that the most fun part of this type of game is the first half, the expansion, exploring the unknown, fighting for survival and making decisions on a minute to minute basis. Later on I believe games on this scale will drag more as you're more secure in your holdings and hold out for long-term goals. Check a graph in games where you can compare yourself to the enemy and you can almost see the turning point of fun into grind.

The AI kicking you swiftly in the balls is great, it means you get to try new things and failure comes within an acceptable time.

Currently there is no way to measure yourself against the AI in graph form, but while you may feel ships are impractical, might I suggest a graph for scores? That should show you how you and the AI were doing against each other over the course of the game.

Putting turrets by each harvester can also be a really good thing, and using something with tachyon beam emitters (even Scout starships, if you don't want to spend knowledge on it) at your wormhole ingress points can also really help against cloaked ships.

I'm using exoshields and when I ran out I put short range turrets for each harvester.

The new Negative Energy Turrets are also really helpful at protecting your wormhole defenses from the Astro Trains.

I don't know those, I assume they're a research topic? I admit I never look at the turret research branch.

I'd concur with that.  Although, depending on what gets sent into your system, you probably want to have a mix of fighters, bombers, and cruisers.  Depending on your resource levels, you can put more or less emphasis on any given one of those.  I tend to build 10 scouts right at the start, my harvesters, and then start cranking out other stuff out of the dock with an engineer assisting it.

I'm going with my 10 (reduced to 6 once things are under control) fighters to 3 bombers to 1 cruiser mix, maybe one special ship too. When I bring a second dock on line later in the game I tend to dedicate it to bombers (you need a lot of these and they die a lot) and move the first over to whatever I need to counter enemy ships.

Yeah, definitely.  You also could place some turrets near your docks (they are cheap, fast to build, and more effective than your average Mark I units -- the tradeoff of course is that they are immobile, so only good for defense).  I also really try to put lots of tractor beams and turrets around each wormhole, and augment those defenses with my mobile ships.  That's probably the quickest way to get a reasonable defense that lets you start moving outward, but I like your way, too.  There's no one right way to play!

I had five short range turrets defending my docks and it still died. I have NO idea how, but it was gone when I returned. In my next game I left my free-roaming defenders next to it, built sniper turrets and then built a shield to cover the docks, my reactor mk II and my command post, then added more sniper turrets inside. Useful against small, weak, fast ships.

Wormholes start with one tractor beam, five MLRS (MPLS?) and one tachyon droid. I then double the turrets later and allocate a engineer per wormhole. In this game the droid was replaced with tachyon turrets.

The snipers really do comparably little damage to most ships, but for permanent outpost on a planet with shielded snipers the counter-sniper turrets are definitely a must.  You can take down force fields with EMPs or with higher-level bombers, or you can just ignore the force fields for a while and come back with higher-tech bombers later.  But those force fields can definitely make certain planets less desirable for a while.

The sniper turrets add up, especially when you have a mainly fighter force. My aim at the moment is grab all the resources I can and ignore the shields, punching through to non-shield sectors, though generally these things are numerous.

Are ALL of the neighboring planets Mark IV?  That's just an unlucky map, that's a huge challenge.  Usually they are not surrounding you like that, but it happens.  Some maps are easier than others, and you won't know until you get in there and start scouting them out.  Having a Technologist Homeworlder also makes for way more Mark IV (and the rest Mark III) planets than you would otherwise have.  That's part of why the Technologist AI types are so darn hard...

I'll have to check more carefully, the sector which might not be has an Ion Cannon in it I think. The MkIV stuff is mainly under shields though, so they make the place unassailable but I can go past.

Part of it is difficulty 7, part of it is the harder AI types that you are playing against.  Some of the AI types can feel like completely other games, almost.  Glad you're enjoying it!

I found my game of 5 too passive, I wanted to be more on my toes and less holding the line simply building enough to move to the next sector. This time I've had to be a bit more reactive and even retreat.

[x4000]

The AI kicking you swiftly in the balls is great, it means you get to try new things and failure comes within an acceptable time.

Ah, gotcha -- I can see the appeal of that.

Currently there is no way to measure yourself against the AI in graph form, but while you may feel ships are impractical, might I suggest a graph for scores? That should show you how you and the AI were doing against each other over the course of the game.

Yeah, that makes sense.  I will add something for that...

The new Negative Energy Turrets are also really helpful at protecting your wormhole defenses from the Astro Trains.

I don't know those, I assume they're a research topic? I admit I never look at the turret research branch.

Yep, turrets.  Researching turrets can be pretty critical for good defense on the higher difficulties.  But, of course, that all just depends on your playstyle.  I'm a bit defensive-oriented, I think.

I had five short range turrets defending my docks and it still died. I have NO idea how, but it was gone when I returned. In my next game I left my free-roaming defenders next to it, built sniper turrets and then built a shield to cover the docks, my reactor mk II and my command post, then added more sniper turrets inside. Useful against small, weak, fast ships.

Yeah, Docks are a pretty soft target.  Either keep the enemies away, or have lots of docks, or do a force field like you did.  The enemy ships probably got in and smashed the dock before the turrets could finish them off.

Wormholes start with one tractor beam, five MLRS (MPLS?) and one tachyon droid. I then double the turrets later and allocate a engineer per wormhole. In this game the droid was replaced with tachyon turrets.

Cool stuff.  Sounds effective to me!

The sniper turrets add up, especially when you have a mainly fighter force. My aim at the moment is grab all the resources I can and ignore the shields, punching through to non-shield sectors, though generally these things are numerous.

Ah, yes, I see.  And I think the AI types you have may be building more shields than otherwise.  But you're right on all that.  Especially if the enemy has snipers and not just sniper turrets, that can really add up fast.

I'll have to check more carefully, the sector which might not be has an Ion Cannon in it I think. The MkIV stuff is mainly under shields though, so they make the place unassailable but I can go past.

Yep, that'd be the thing to do.  Nice, tough scenario there.

I found my game of 5 too passive, I wanted to be more on my toes and less holding the line simply building enough to move to the next sector. This time I've had to be a bit more reactive and even retreat.

Always good -- I think there's something in there for most playstyles, from the "empire builders" to the people who are more aggressive, like it sounds like you are.  Even with no harder AI styles, just being on difficulty 7 and playing any AI type will make the game more of a pitched battle where you have to retreat, etc.

You mentioned earlier about how these games turn into mop-up or a grind after a point, and that's interesting.  See what you think for yourself as you play more on difficulty 7, but I think that's something that AI War manages to neatly avoid thanks to the AI Progress.  In the 4-player game I'm currently in, the last four hours of a 13 hour game were actually the hardest.  We had trouble all along, but at the end they really started scouring our planets three or four at a time before we could kick them back off.  Plus we were having to make some tough decisions about where to try to get some advanced factories, and in fact we lost 2 out of the 3 we captured, which made that even harder (all our tech 4 production was thus way off in the middle of nowhere, which weakened our front line).

All of that made it so that we were unprepared for the core planets, and we had to expend several thousand ships just to burrow a hole through to the first AI planet.  It then took us a while to kill that last planet, and the AI was harassing us heavily the whole time.  One of our players couldn't even join in on the attack, he was completely occupied with just trying to defend our flanks and shore those up.

We've still got an hour left to go on that, probably, but we're right near the last AI planet and should be able to take it neatly.  I've always been bored with that "once you beat one of the AIs, it's all downhill from there" type of approach in other RTS games I've played, so that was something I was careful to balance with this one.  Sounds like difficulty 7 is the right level for you to be at, in any case, and hopefully it will thus provide interesting play throughout the entire campaign.  That's the goal, anyway, and so far it's worked for my play group -- but I'll be interested to hear how it turns out for you!

[Quitch]

I'll be watching the end-game with interest, hopefully it's not the one hour mark this time

I've checked and yep, I'm surrounded by the technologist AI, I have yet to find a planet owned by the other AI though he's scoring higher. On the upside it means the wormholes are clear.

[x4000]

Well, that's cool -- hopefully you can sneak through there and have some success.  Sounds like a particularly wicked scenario.  I hope you succeed!