Math behind armor?

[x4000]

Yeah, very glad to be done with the "fires through shields" stuff, as that made for some brutal-hard counters.

So those ships, like infiltrators, that had the "fire though shields" perk now have nothing or one less stat?
Have they gotten something to compensate?
Are these Compensations the same on all these ships?

It really, really varies.  Some have no compensation directly (but have been rebalanced in other ways), others have varying degrees of piercing.  The balance on all the ships is pretty much completely different now, from all the various changes, so it's not apples-to-apples at all these days between 3.xxx and 3.7xx.

[Lancefighter]

flagships have around 2k armor piercing, which is a fairly good number for them Id think..
sentinel frigates get 100k armor piercing, which is kinda funny, but basically is the same as ignores armor :p

[CogDissident]

Honestly, armor means that mk1 fighters do nearly nothing to any starship, while mk3s are actually extremely powerful.

Consider a ship that does 600/1200/1800 damage vs armor 1000 (generally the lowest found on any guardian ship) with no ship-type-bonuses
This means mk1s do 30 per shot, mk2s do 200 per shot, mk3s do 800 per shot.
This means one mk2 is worth 6.66 mark 1s, and one mk3 is worth 26.666 mk1s

Now lets look at it with a 4x bonus vs that ship type

damage becomes
1400/3800/6200

Thus a mk2 is worth only 2.7 mark 1s, and a mk3 is worth 4.4 mark 1s. The huge spread disappears into smoke and the balance comes back into it.

So, really, what I'm saying is that with the current implementation of armor, higher marks are always ->vastly<- more beneficial, to the exclusion of the lower marks even being worth building. To the point where once you get mark3s, ignore building mk1s and 2s, they're simply a waste.

[x4000]

Honestly, armor means that mk1 fighters do nearly nothing to any starship, while mk3s are actually extremely powerful.

Consider a ship that does 600/1200/1800 damage vs armor 1000 (generally the lowest found on any guardian ship) with no ship-type-bonuses
This means mk1s do 30 per shot, mk2s do 200 per shot, mk3s do 800 per shot.
This means one mk2 is worth 6.66 mark 1s, and one mk3 is worth 26.666 mk1s

Now lets look at it with a 4x bonus vs that ship type

damage becomes
1400/3800/6200

Thus a mk2 is worth only 2.7 mark 1s, and a mk3 is worth 4.4 mark 1s. The huge spread disappears into smoke and the balance comes back into it.

So, really, what I'm saying is that with the current implementation of armor, higher marks are always ->vastly<- more beneficial, to the exclusion of the lower marks even being worth building. To the point where once you get mark3s, ignore building mk1s and 2s, they're simply a waste.

That's only relevant when there's a bunch of armor in question.  Fighters are no longer the counter to starships, fyi.

[Lancefighter]

Bombers, on the other hand, are a counter to flagships/light stars

MRLS, both in unit and turret form seem to be the counter to zenith/spire, while the rest are dealt with based on hulltype.

Also, fighters have AP at 1000 as well..

[x4000]

In the next version:

* Fixed a number of tooltips in the game that were referring to ship-vs-ship bonuses that no longer exist.

[TheMachineIsSentient]

theres a 5% minimum...

MAX(((damage * hull multiplier) - (armor - armor piercing)), damage*hull multiplier*.05) * speed scale multiplier

Yes, this is the formula with a couple minor points. Armor minus armor piercing cannot be less than zero and multipliers are usually one unless otherwise stated  (these may not be obvious points for everybody).


Let's use an example and prove that it works. Mark one bomber against a heavy beam Guardian has:

400 damage
0 piercing
25 multiplier
600 enemy armor
speed scale multiplier is normal, so, 2

Max((( 400x25)-( 600-0)), 400x25x.05) * (2)


Max(( 9400), 500) * (2)

= 18,800 damage


another example: Mark one fighter against a heavy beam Guardian has:
600 damage
1000 piercing
0 multiplier
600 enemy armor
speed scale multiplier is normal, so, 2

Max((( 600x1)-( 600-1000)), 600x1x.05) * (2)

=600*2 = 1200 damage


You can see the attached screenshots for verification by the user interface!

[Lancefighter]

Which reminds me, is munitions boosting happening after or before armor calculations?

[x4000]

Which reminds me, is munitions boosting happening after or before armor calculations?

It's applied before, to the attack power itself.

[orzelek]

And when is the armor applied when ship has "bonus" like zenith mirrors that increases damage against this ship?

[x4000]

And when is the armor applied when ship has "bonus" like zenith mirrors that increases damage against this ship?

At the very start, also.

[orzelek]

So effectively zenith mirrors armor of 2k is equal to 50 armor on other ships?

[superking]

So effectively zenith mirrors armor of 2k is equal to 50 armor on other ships?

yeah, the loss of the old shield mechanics mirrors has really nerfed mirrors