Author Topic: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).  (Read 2834 times)

Offline x4000

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Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« on: October 15, 2009, 11:51:24 pm »
Well, this morning right after checking my mail, I was logging on to my work VPN and found out that remote desktop would not open.  Odd, I thought, but I was running north of 3GB of RAM and had not rebooted in over 6 months.  So I figured I just needed to clear the air a bit, so to speak.  Down went the various programs as I closed them, including Explorer.exe, which has an annoying memory leak in XP (at least when TortoiseSVN is present).  Then tried to reopen Explorer.exe through Task Manager -- no go.  Huh, that's odd, and not a good sign, I though.  Time for a reboot for real, then.

The OS comes back up to a black screen, with a mouse cursor, and then just sits there blinking the hard drive light at me.  Lovely.  But I've had much more dire situations than this in the past, such as when a production server does something similar because of an extra bit of charge in the SCSI card.  So I try all the usual tricks -- powering down and waiting 30+ seconds, running Last Known Good at least 1 more time than I had previously booted, then getting more concerned and trying to load Safe Mode (with the same result), then getting really concerned and deciding to do a Repair Install off of my slipstreamed XP SP2 disk... with the same result on reboot.

Oh, fun.  What caused this?  I have no idea.  My hard disk and everything else seems to be okay.  But it was clearly time for a reinstall.  I've got an MSDN subscription, so I figured I'd install the Windows 7 64 RTM instead of just going back to XP 32.  I have Vista 32 on a secondary tower that I use for testing with AI War, but I hadn't yet taken a look at Win7 directly.  I'd heard good things from people I knew, though, and also felt like I couldn't stay on XP forever.

So, two hours later (the MS connection is really slow, even though my connection is really fast).  I decided to just install Windows 7 onto the same single 500GB partition that I'd used for XP and all my data (gasp, I know).  The install process for Windows 7 was slower than I expected, taking over an hour and half if I'm not mistaken (at least an hour) on my Q6600 quad.  Hmm.  Not off to too good a start.

Once the OS boots up, the first thing that I do is disable Aero (which is slow as well as nonfunctionally ugly in my opinion), returning to the Windows Classic theme.  I also play around with the new taskbar a bit, returning it to something more like what I'm used to using (four rows tall, with autohide on).  The quick launch bar is gone, but the new application pinning works really well.  I decide to turn off the large icons and re-enable the text display (and turn off grouping).  Perfect, it's now just about like what I prefer, and in some ways is a little bit better (I no longer have to install a little widget to allow me to drag around taskbar entries, for instance).

The next thing I notice is that explorer needs to reconfiguration to be a little more like what I like.  Of course, the next next thing I notice is how insanely awesome the new Libraries feature is.  How incredibly handy.  By now I'm also marveling at how fast the (non-Aero) desktop experience is.  It's about as fast as Windows XP, and tons faster than Vista, on this particular machine.  The memory usage is higher, but since all 4GB of my RAM now actually registers with the OS (since I was on 32bit before, it capped out at around 3.3GB usable), it works out around the same anyway.

No problems with drivers, and all of the software that I have to install (including Visual Studio 2008) installs amazingly, blazingly fast.  Huh.  I've installed various versions of those pieces of software many times, on many machines, on several OSes over the years, and none of them ever installed even 1/8th as fast as it did on my machine here.  Again, huh.  That's pretty cool.

The rest of the software is similarly speedy and uneventful so far, and I'm down to only half a dozen more programs that I need to install, most of them noncritical for my daily work.  I have noticed a few other changes, such as those to network places (meh), calculator (meh), remote desktop (wow!), windows find (wow!), IE8 (a hearty blah), picture viewer (pretty nice), and others.  And the drivers seem pretty great for all my hardware, graphics card excepted.

In all this set me back around a day, though fortunately it was a day where I had a lot of meetings anyway so I could just do those on my other PC while the installs were running.  So, not nearly as bad as some reinstalls I've had to do in the past.  I find myself pleasantly pleased and surprised with Windows 7, too.  It's not amazing in most respects so far as I can tell, but it's modern and unobtrusive, which is really what I was looking for.  I always loved XP (and 2000 before it), after getting excited about (and burned by)about ME.  But XP was starting to feel sort of dated, in areas that Win7 addresses.  Simple usability improvements, like the taskbar, the dragging of windows to one side of the screen, the better truetype calibration and monitor sizing, the libraries, etc. 

The sum of a hundred tiny improvements, which basic users may never even see, make me really happy with Win7.  Especially coming after Vista, this is a surprise.  Tomorrow I'll be back at coding updates to AI War, and additionally I should be able to duplicate that Win7 screensaver crash bug myself, since I was never able to duplicate it on XP (and hadn't yet fired up my Vista workstation to test it out recently).  All in all a solid day's work and some interesting progress, if not the kind I'd expected by any stretch.
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Offline dumpsterKEEPER

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2009, 12:25:40 am »
That's good to hear you got your system back on track. Sounds like Windows 7 is generally an improvement, which is good, since my copy is supposed to arrive in the mail quite shortly :) I know a couple other people running it as well and the results I've heard are mostly positive so far. I only use Windows for gaming and media (Slackware Linux is my preferred platform for generally everything else) but I still need it to work well and run stably.

Offline Varek Raith

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2009, 01:36:24 am »
Glad to hear everything worked out!  I'm waiting till 7 comes out for my next rig.  Well, a couple of months after 7 comes out, to avoid potential driver issues.  ;)

TortoiseSVN still has issues in XP?   ::)

Offline RCIX

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2009, 05:48:59 am »
Welcome to the club, and i must say you made the right choice! been running 7 since the first beta and even back then it worked like a dream. In my opinion it was wat vista should have been right out of the gate. But enough vista bashing! About that calcualtor: have you looked in the View menu? i usually keep mine on scientific but lately have been using the programmer mode more and more. I suspect it might be invaluable for (y)our line of work!
That install WAS really slow, usually (and i'm not kidding here) it takes 15 minutes or so. They've really tweaked it down to the last assembly instruction here (as with most areas).
 @Varek Raith: There's really no driver problems with 7. If you're running vista on your machine now it's about guaranteed that 7 will work.
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Offline Varek Raith

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2009, 09:27:56 am »
@Varek Raith: There's really no driver problems with 7. If you're running vista on your machine now it's about guaranteed that 7 will work.

Yeah, I know, but I'm a cynic.  I'll just wait and see.  ;)

Offline x4000

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2009, 09:29:16 am »
That's good to hear you got your system back on track. Sounds like Windows 7 is generally an improvement, which is good, since my copy is supposed to arrive in the mail quite shortly :) I know a couple other people running it as well and the results I've heard are mostly positive so far. I only use Windows for gaming and media (Slackware Linux is my preferred platform for generally everything else) but I still need it to work well and run stably.

Yeah, I think it's definitely worthwhile.  I used to run Red Hat back in the day (5.1 baby!), and then Mandrake 8 for a while.  Had a couple of DNS servers and file servers at work that I had converted to Mandrake, actually.  Then I pretty much got out of the Linux scene for a while, so I've never really tried out Slackware.  I still would like to support Linux and see it grow, but for day-to-day operations at the moment I just need it to "just work" since I have so much going on.  The best OS, to me, has all the little usability things I need, and otherwise is invisible.  I must say I love the OS on my iPhone 3GS, for instance. :) (After Windows Mobile 6.1, which was fricking terrible).

Glad to hear everything worked out!  I'm waiting till 7 comes out for my next rig.  Well, a couple of months after 7 comes out, to avoid potential driver issues.  ;)

TortoiseSVN still has issues in XP?   ::)

Yeah, I know what you mean about the driver issues.  Fortunately it's pretty close to Vista in that regard, so the only thing not working yet for me is MozyHome, which is a bummer because it does work on Vista.  So I don't know what the deal is there. They are supposedly going to have an update for that shortly.

Although, come to see it, TortoiseSVN -- at least the version I was using before -- isn't working in the Windows 7 explorer, it looks like.  I'll have to see if there is an update, I haven't updated it in a few months at least (if not a year or so, I can't recall).  Mostly TSVN is great in the XP Explorer, but sometimes it can get a bit... fiddly and crashy.  So it goes.

Welcome to the club, and i must say you made the right choice! been running 7 since the first beta and even back then it worked like a dream. In my opinion it was wat vista should have been right out of the gate. But enough vista bashing! About that calcualtor: have you looked in the View menu? i usually keep mine on scientific but lately have been using the programmer mode more and more. I suspect it might be invaluable for (y)our line of work!
That install WAS really slow, usually (and i'm not kidding here) it takes 15 minutes or so. They've really tweaked it down to the last assembly instruction here (as with most areas).
 @Varek Raith: There's really no driver problems with 7. If you're running vista on your machine now it's about guaranteed that 7 will work.

Glad you're enjoying it, as well!  For the install, do note that I was installing this onto a 500GB drive that had an existing install of XP on it.  So I think some of that time might have been it moving stuff into Windows.old.  I forgot to mention that feature in the post above, but that was something that I absolutely love.  I've installed OSes in all sorts of configurations in the past, and installed replacement OSes into the same drive like this before, and it's always been rather a messy thing to do (but faster than moving data off, then formatting, then moving data back on).  So I was super impressed with how this handled that.  It may also have been slowed down some if it was trying to open parts of XP that were corrupt or something, I don't know if the registry was messed up at all or what the problem was.

Regarding the calculator, I did indeed change it to Scientific immediately -- I did not notice the programmer one until now, thanks for mentioning it.  I've always used Scientific in the past, too, but that's not really where my complaint comes in.  Basically, I just find the new skin to be less readable, especially the font on the results panel.  It's not that I hate it, or that I find it unusable, it's just one of those cases where it was a change that I find mildly irritating, and that I don't see much in the way of positive benefits from.  I'm sure I'll get used to it, though.
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Offline Echo35

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2009, 10:54:23 am »
Welcome to the club, and i must say you made the right choice! been running 7 since the first beta and even back then it worked like a dream. In my opinion it was wat vista should have been right out of the gate.

Ditto. Even when I was using the Beta of 7, it felt like Vista was the Beta of the Beta ;D. 7 is rock solid and makes me very happy! I have multiple hard drives with various media on it, so the Libraries feature is spectacular, and I'm happy with how fast everything is, even with Aero on (Though to its credit, disabling Areo only frees up about 100 MB of RAM or so. Hardly noticeable on a 4 GB system). I'm curious as to why it took so long to install for you. I also have a q6600 and a 1 TB hard drive and it zipped right along.

Offline AcidWeb

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2009, 11:04:59 am »
Ditto. Even when I was using the Beta of 7, it felt like Vista was the Beta of the Beta ;D.

Because Vista was a Beta of Beta but M$ don`t want admit that they selling unfinished alpha release of Win 7 ]:->

Offline Haagenti

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2009, 11:40:56 am »
Still waiting for some more reviews to come in (especially on drivers, compatibility with software and and all that: the things that only get tested when it hits the mass market) before making the switch.

I will definitely not miss Vista. It slowly falls apart. It's like my PC has some slow leprosy-like disease and I'm watching it die.

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Offline Oewyn

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2009, 01:03:47 pm »
I installed 7 on my laptop and I'm also liking it.  Overall the increase in responsiveness over vista is very noticeable.  One of my most annoying pet-peeves in vista was the wireless configuration toolbar popup.  It usually take several seconds to pop up once i clicked on it. 

In general i haven't experienced any major driver issues, most 64 bit vista drivers install just fine on windows 7.  Of course, being a laptop, I've had to go directly to the chipset manufacturer's website for drivers as vendor supplied drivers are never up to date.

Offline darke

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2009, 05:05:15 pm »
Regarding the calculator, I did indeed change it to Scientific immediately -- I did not notice the programmer one until now, thanks for mentioning it.  I've always used Scientific in the past, too, but that's not really where my complaint comes in.  Basically, I just find the new skin to be less readable, especially the font on the results panel.  It's not that I hate it, or that I find it unusable, it's just one of those cases where it was a change that I find mildly irritating, and that I don't see much in the way of positive benefits from.  I'm sure I'll get used to it, though.

I end up installing this on every machine I have to use a calculator on these days: http://speedcrunch.org/en_US/index.html

You can hide the pointless keypad and just have a nice scrollback and command history of all the calculations you've done. I did have to *gasp* read the documentation once though, since it wasn't obvious that they use a semicolon to seperate items in a function list rather then a comma. Luckily the answer is the second item in their hideously verbose three item FAQ though. :)


Offline Echo35

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2009, 07:02:17 pm »
since it wasn't obvious that they use a semicolon to seperate items in a function list rather then a comma.

So its made for programmers then :P

Offline darke

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2009, 07:12:06 pm »
since it wasn't obvious that they use a semicolon to seperate items in a function list rather then a comma.

So its made for programmers then :P

Nah, it's an I18N thing. It's made so that countries that use comma as a decimal point rather then a period can still write unambiguously. Would have thought they would have just used a space to separate multiple terms, but there's probably a reason not to.

Offline x4000

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2009, 12:50:12 am »
Regarding the calculator, I did indeed change it to Scientific immediately -- I did not notice the programmer one until now, thanks for mentioning it.  I've always used Scientific in the past, too, but that's not really where my complaint comes in.  Basically, I just find the new skin to be less readable, especially the font on the results panel.  It's not that I hate it, or that I find it unusable, it's just one of those cases where it was a change that I find mildly irritating, and that I don't see much in the way of positive benefits from.  I'm sure I'll get used to it, though.

I end up installing this on every machine I have to use a calculator on these days: http://speedcrunch.org/en_US/index.html

You can hide the pointless keypad and just have a nice scrollback and command history of all the calculations you've done. I did have to *gasp* read the documentation once though, since it wasn't obvious that they use a semicolon to seperate items in a function list rather then a comma. Luckily the answer is the second item in their hideously verbose three item FAQ though. :)

I really want a virtual TI83, that's what I want.  I mean, my wife has a TI83+ and I have a TI82 left over from back in the day, but it's a pain to dig them out.  Those calculators got a huge amount of use through high school and college, though, and were really high quality.
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Offline Echo35

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Re: Fun with Windows (XP and 7).
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2009, 01:07:16 am »
I really want a virtual TI83, that's what I want.  I mean, my wife has a TI83+ and I have a TI82 left over from back in the day, but it's a pain to dig them out.  Those calculators got a huge amount of use through high school and college, though, and were really high quality.

Well if you feel like digging those TI's out and experimenting with them, the OS Signing key has been cracked, so in theory you can load a RISC based Linux shell onto them: http://www.ticalc.org/archives/news/articles/14/145/145154.html

I do seem to recall a digital version of them as well. Some software my high school math teacher had that emulated one on screen. Granted it was a full emulation, so you had to click buttons and the like, but it was legit there.