Did you guys make it harder to activate golems?

[TechSY730]

I think halfing (or 2/3rding) all repair rates for all engineers (including the Mk. V engineer) would help out.

That, combined with the repair cost reduction that is happening next version (and golem costs being cut even further than that) should help prevent absurd negative flow rates that people tend to freak out over, even if they are short lived.

[Draco18s]

Anyway, I don't mind taking repair costs all the way down to 4% (slightly better than engie Is got before the fix) if that's what it takes, because my intent wasn't to make repairing more expensive but rather to fix a problem where microing to make sure that only engie IIIs repaired anything remotely expensive (let alone golems, where it was a night-and-day difference) was highly desirable.  But I'm just not sure that 4% is a proportional response in light of how much the energy changes in 5.040 helped econ.

For the most part I don't think people CARED what the Mk3 repaired first, with the exception of Large Constructions.

That is, I used my Mk3s to repair:
Golems (Mk2s would aid, but would be the first things pulled off)
Zenith Power Generators
Fortresses
[Any other Z-Trader buildings]

It wasn't so much due to micro, but the fact that I got the structures cheaper if they were aided, so I'd throw my highest level engineers at the problem.

When I wasn't actively building/repairing these structures, I didn't bother separating out engineers.  The cost:benefit ratio was too small.

[TechSY730]

For the most part I don't think people CARED what the Mk3 repaired first, with the exception of Large Constructions.

That is, I used my Mk3s to repair:
Golems (Mk2s would aid, but would be the first things pulled off)
Zenith Power Generators
Fortresses
[Any other Z-Trader buildings]

It wasn't so much due to micro, but the fact that I got the structures cheaper if they were aided, so I'd throw my highest level engineers at the problem.

When I wasn't actively building/repairing these structures, I didn't bother separating out engineers.  The cost:benefit ratio was too small.

Again, when constructing stuff, you always paid full cost, both before and after this change. (This applies to dock based construction AND structure construction). So when first constructing those fortresses and Z power generators, you ALWAYS paid full cost, regardless of construction assist rates. What changed was how repair costs are handled, which are now treated similarly.

As bringing broken golems' HP up was considered a repair operation rather than a construction one, these were influenced by the change.

[Draco18s]

Again, when constructing stuff, you always paid full cost, both before and after this change. (This applies to dock based construction AND structure construction). So when first constructing those fortresses and Z power generators, you ALWAYS paid full cost, regardless of construction assist rates. What changed was how repair costs are handled, which are now treated similarly.

As bringing broken golems' HP up was considered a repair operation rather than a construction one, these were influenced by the change.

Yeah, I get that now.  What I meant was my previous perception.

[TechSY730]

Again, when constructing stuff, you always paid full cost, both before and after this change. (This applies to dock based construction AND structure construction). So when first constructing those fortresses and Z power generators, you ALWAYS paid full cost, regardless of construction assist rates. What changed was how repair costs are handled, which are now treated similarly.

As bringing broken golems' HP up was considered a repair operation rather than a construction one, these were influenced by the change.

Yeah, I get that now.  What I meant was my previous perception.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

[Cinth]

Rebuilding a fleet (refleeting) costs more in absolute terms but the resources per second were significantly lower (like 10% of repair costs) so people did not see a problem. It took longer but resource flow stayed positive.

After the changes, a fleet of twenty engineers repairing could tank your economy at -15,000 of each resource per second easily. This is seen as a problem because players see resources sitting at 0 with a negative resource flow as a problem even though it would ultimately get that unit back to 100% faster and cheaper then building it from scratch.

Ironically, that makes it sound like nerfing the repair-rate on engineers would help

Anyway, I don't mind taking repair costs all the way down to 4% (slightly better than engie Is got before the fix) if that's what it takes, because my intent wasn't to make repairing more expensive but rather to fix a problem where microing to make sure that only engie IIIs repaired anything remotely expensive (let alone golems, where it was a night-and-day difference) was highly desirable.  But I'm just not sure that 4% is a proportional response in light of how much the energy changes in 5.040 helped econ.

I don't think it's just engis and repair... Forts and MRS both repair.  This change has really kicked my play in the shins (and the Exo change  ). All in all, I'm not liking 5.050.

[Draco18s]

It occurs to me that the "repair threshold" value needs to be checked once all this is done.  Afterall, if an engineer has a "threshold" of 400 mc/sec, and a repair rate of x6, then when it targets a ship worth 300 mc/sec, the actual drain on the economy is 1800 mc/sec, more than FOUR TIMES the desired threshold.

[MaxAstro]

I'm against making the thresholds take repair rate into account - it makes that toggle way less useful in my opinion.  Keeping track of "these are the units I have to manually repair" is easy.  Keeping track of "these units can only be autorepaired by mark II engies, these other units can only be autorepaired by mark I engies, etc." is a nightmare.

I think 12.5% repairs cost and greatly reduced cost of golems sounds perfect.  I am ambivalent on repair rates.

[Faulty Logic]

As of 5.051, repairs are sane once more. And there was much rejoicing.

[keith.lamothe]

As of 5.051, repairs are sane once more. And there was much rejoicing.

Hopefully the situation remained dire long enough to necessitate the consumption of Robin's musical staff.

[Faulty Logic]

I used them to build .23% percent of a Black Widow. Unfortunately, the AI has their songs in its central database, and in a brilliant display of psychological warfare, has all of its ships broadcasting them.

[keith.lamothe]

and in a brilliant display of psychological warfare, has all of its ships broadcasting them.

Especially during your strategic withdrawals.

[Draco18s]

and in a brilliant display of psychological warfare, has all of its ships broadcasting them.

Especially during your strategic withdrawals.

o/` Brave Sir Robin!  Brave, brave Sir Robin!  He bravely ran away, ran away, brave Sir Robin!

[Faulty Logic]

No!
I didn't!

Never!