Cutlass Balance

[liq3]

Yep, starting a thread about cutlasses, when used in the hands of a human player. My question is this:

Are they useful?

I find they aren't. They aren't good at anything. They kill themselves trying to kill turrets because turrets have too much hp. There's so many other units that can kill home stations and warp gates better then them. They're too slow to be useful against military units. They can get past shields, but this is rarely useful, and not worth an entire unit. Other units can do it to, and better (eye bots, infiltrators).

I think cutlasses simply need a damage buff, mostly to offset how much damage they take when attacking, and also because just about every other unit in the game can outrun them.

Edit: Yes, I am aware they are very powerful in the hands of the AI. In the hands of a player though, they are a terrible unit.

Edit2: This now just a general cutlass balance thread. :]

[Volatar]

I fully oppose this idea 100%

They are already way too powerful in the hands of the AI, don't make them worse 

[liq3]

I fully oppose this idea 100%

They are already way too powerful in the hands of the AI, don't make them worse 

I know. I updated my post to reflect this.

Simply, they own when the AI uses em, and suck balls when a player does.

[Volatar]

Simply, they own when the AI uses em, and suck balls when a player does.

Ok, step one is to identify why this is. How in the world can the AI wield ANY unit better than a human can?

[liq3]

Simply, they own when the AI uses em, and suck balls when a player does.

Ok, step one is to identify why this is. How in the world can the AI wield ANY unit better than a human can?

It's more the fact that they are good at killing single really important targets. The AI doesn't really have any. Command stations and warp gates come close, but there are units that can kill those just as well, AND do other things.

I think the problem is that they can't kill anything military. They should be able to kill either turrets, mobile military, or both.

Here's my ideas for buffing them against the following targets:

Turrets - Buff the damage up so they can slaughter turrets (and anything else they manage to catch).
Mobile Military - Reduce HP and increase speed by the same amount (preferably like 40 speed. Obviously you'd cut their hp by a ton e.g. 2/3s). Also increase damage done, just not as much as you would with the above. Also decrease the damage they take when attacking. Possibly either make them cheaper or raise the cap on them too.
Both - Some middle ground between the above 2 ideas.

The first idea would give them a sort of "slow, if I catch you you die" style. Second would give them a "mad rusher" type style.

Personally I prefer the first, since it's simplier (less likely to cause balance problems) and avoids revamping the entire unit.

[x4000]

I think there are some cool ideas here.  I had wanted to wait on the cutlass revamp until after the other more recent changes were in, which basically fixed them so that they worked properly at all.  Now that those other changes are in, I think you have a good bead on what needs to be done here.  From the release notes of the upcoming O release:

-The balance of cutlasses has been changed significantly.  They now have more health and do much more damage, but their base attack now has damage equal to their health.  So if they are going up against high-health targets, they will kill themselves in one hit;if they are going up against multiple weaker targets, they will be able to kill several of the smaller targets before they themselves are killed.  Additionally, cutlasses are now much less effective against resources, constructors, and command stations/posts, but are much more effective against turrets.  This prevents them from being the scourge of human players when the AI is using them, but should make them a lot more useful for players and AIS to use on the battlefield.

[liq3]

Sounds neat. Will try them out when O is out, and report back. :]

[x4000]

Great!  O should be out in around an hour, hour and a half.

[liq3]

Ok, tried out cutlasses in O.

They're now excellent at busting down wormhole defense (took out a heavily mined CORE wormhole defense with 100 Mark I and II cutlasses). There is one large problem though. They have terrible, terrible regen. With their current regen, it'd take 40 minutes to regen to full hp. Should be more like 5 minutes if they are to be on par with other special units.

I can wipe an entire planet in 5 minutes with raiders. Cutlasses will already take nearly 3x longer due to their lower move speed. Their regen is just making them nearly useless still. :p