So, command stations.

[Lancefighter]

I've recently concluded a multiplayer game in which some very fun things happened. However, its raised at least one question, and I've already kinda peppered here and there with them.

ANyway, I think the biggest question I wanted to talk about was the state of command stations. I'm not sure how much people are worried about spoilers.. but anyway, heres the first concern; Given the new 'shark' plots, the importance of maintaining a command center, or NOT maintaining a command center is now a big deal. If I want to maintain a command center, I now must never lose it, ever, because losing it will mean a much greater wave/punishment will shortly follow. This is a very snowball mechanic I am not particularly arguing against, but it and my next point raise a fairly major concern. My second point relates to the new showdown devices. This is kinda a big deal as well - Youre requiring me to hold four distinct points, without losing my command stations.. ever.

The basic argument against problems with command stations is that there are ways to prevent it. Buy bigger command stations, buy bigger forcefields, etc. However sometimes that just plain doesnt work. Lets for instance look at an AI who magically happens to get zelec bombers, youngling tigers.. And maybe zbombards, for fun. These three units together mean that forcefields are not that big of a deal. They just kinda melt.. instantly.. in a single volley. This is a problem. How am I supposed to defend my command stations when all it takes is a single volley from an opposing wave to end them?

This is not even the worst offender. Imagine an ai that gets for some reason a collection of ff ignore units - infiltrators, eyebots, raid starships... I dont know. Anything. The point is that these ships will often ignore everything else just to blow up your command station - Triggering now more important results.

Now, dont get me wrong, a lot of this probably feels like a rant; It is for the most part. I just got out of a game with the first set of enemies. Its kinda hard to hold mk3 command stations under mk3 shields next to modforts.. under hundreds of turrets, against that sort of composition. (also not mentioned: Spire minirams, autobombs)

I am just not sure as to the strength of heavy defense anymore, particularly for doing defending.

[Zeyi]

I think any game combining the shark plot with showdown devices, fallen spire or dark spire is going to have fairly harsh consequences.

I do agree with some of yours points though, it's just in a game like AIW there is so much customisation some combinations of options are bound to be ridiculously hard and I worry that if we changed anything significant you risk making the game without these options on substantially easier.

[Tridus]

Yeah, this is why when people say "oh give unit X forcefield immunity!" I just cringe. Command stations are sitting ducks. Millitary ones can defend themselves against small attacks, at least (mostly they help other stuff defend more effectively, and they're great at that).

Turret controllers can help some because they're totally absurd in power right now, at least. Personally, I just wouldn't turn on Shark because of these kinds of concerns. In a normal game you're going to lose a station occasionally and it's not the end of the world to go rebuild it when something sneaks past.

[keith.lamothe]

@Lancefighter: Shark is one of those "asking for it" situations, but if you have it on at least you do have the "Decolonize" option (scrap menu) if for some reason you need to abandon a planet without triggering shark.  But if you lose it in combat, then yea, the whole point of the plot is for the AI to really give you a good kicking while you're down.

On the Showdown thing, that's a bit more of an issue but even there I think it's quite doable.  Some balance adjustment is probably still needed but it should be workable as long as the scenario is relatively sane (... hmm, that could be a problem with you guys).  FWIW, if you lose control of one of the devices before the 30 minutes is up, you can just clean out the remaining AI response and recapture the device planet to restart the 30 minute timer (from 30 minutes, but hey).  Of course, the situation may be such that you can't recover, but then the problem isn't so much that you couldn't hold that one planet, it's that you couldn't hold period.

[Lancefighter]

I just feel there are certain ai rolls that make it very difficult to actually hold a planet - If the ai rolls too many types of bombers, and just ignores literally everything on the planet with the exception of the command station.. its difficult to stop them. There are enough ff ignore units that will do the same thing on 'bad' rolls for the player as well.. something I am not really fond of playing against.

These plots seem like they are good in theory (punishing mistakes is something I like to see happening), but it also means that if your mistake was 'ending up against a mad bomber ai'.. you might as well quit the game at minute 1.

[Tridus]

You're not wrong. There are combinations that just don't play as nicely with certain plots as others, and some AIs are pretty mean.

[chemical_art]

In terms of base units, things especially nasty like bombers.and such the ai deploys in relstively lesser numbers.

[Diazo]

Disclaimer: Have not played with Shark enabled yet.

Having said that, the Shark plot being enabled is a radical shift in game play.

I generally play lattice type maps with high connections and this leads me to play the defense in depth playstyle as I simply don't have the unit caps to play the chokepoint defense.

This means I lose significantly more command stations them most people, but I plan for that in my defensive strategy.

However, Shark now punishes me for losing a command station by throwing more units at me. This essentially renders defense in depth non-viable as I can't afford to lose a command station now.

For me personally, Shark being enabled is as big a change in gameplay as enabling Fallen Spire, that's how radically different I see the game being when Shark is enabled.

That certainly does not make it bad, and I will probably mix up my games, some with lattice and no-Shark, some with vines/spokes and yes-Shark.

You have to adapt your strategy for the settings you set on game-start, and Shark is a very nasty (and punishing) condition to enable.

D.

[keith.lamothe]

Yea, Shark is definitely not for everyone and definitely not for every game.  It's all-up brutal on distributed defense.