Author Topic: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!  (Read 10993 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #60 on: March 14, 2013, 01:07:26 am »
Erm.

Quote
Fixed a bug in the previous version where the AI could get a single (non-respawning) offensive nemesis champion even if the human players had no champions.

More details please? I just ran into a Shadow Frigate in my fallen spire game where both AI types are not Heroic and I have no champion.

This is on 6.012.

It looks the saved game I loaded was saved in 6.011, did I just not play long enough on 6.011 to run into this? I am currently in a save-scum cycle trying to build my spire city so not a lot of game time is passing at the moment.

D.
Yea, I think it's probably just a leftover from the original bug (the nemesis probably already spawned before you updated, you just hadn't run into it).  If you see it happen in a game started in 6.012+, please do let me know.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #61 on: March 14, 2013, 08:23:19 am »

I'm pretty sure everything is broken multi-homeworld.


It hardly makes a good case though for balance reasons. With even just two worlds, you can get twice the cap of a unit, but guardposts from what I remember don't get stronger. So guardposts get comparatively weaker.
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Offline Diazo

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #62 on: March 14, 2013, 09:33:53 am »
Erm.

Quote
Fixed a bug in the previous version where the AI could get a single (non-respawning) offensive nemesis champion even if the human players had no champions.

More details please? I just ran into a Shadow Frigate in my fallen spire game where both AI types are not Heroic and I have no champion.

This is on 6.012.

It looks the saved game I loaded was saved in 6.011, did I just not play long enough on 6.011 to run into this? I am currently in a save-scum cycle trying to build my spire city so not a lot of game time is passing at the moment.

D.
Yea, I think it's probably just a leftover from the original bug (the nemesis probably already spawned before you updated, you just hadn't run into it).  If you see it happen in a game started in 6.012+, please do let me know.

Ugh. Posting when half dead just before heading to bed is a bad thing.

I left out the entire reason I was confused, I started the game in 6.010 until about the 5 hour mark. Then only about 30 minutes of gametime passed in game on patch 6.011 before I updated to 6.012 where after another 30-40 minutes gametime I actually saw the AI's Shadow Frigate.

I'd assumed only games started in 6.011 could run into this at the time, but it looks like any game loaded in 6.011 will experience this?

D.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #63 on: March 14, 2013, 10:24:29 am »
I'd assumed only games started in 6.011 could run into this at the time, but it looks like any game loaded in 6.011 will experience this?
Yep, the dreaded taint of 6.011! ;)  Just think of it as a special present from the AI, I imagine it didn't last long.
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Offline Diazo

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #64 on: March 14, 2013, 10:26:55 am »
No, it's still around.

One of the perils of making every border world fortified to the max, the AI never comes through to say hi.

It's the last thing I need to hunt down before I'm setup for more city building attempts, I can't afford to have it hanging around when the exo-wave spawns.

It kind up just showed up as I was finishing up clearing the normal threat I'd generated previously, one of the reasons I was so surprised.

D.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #65 on: March 14, 2013, 10:31:48 am »
It kind up just showed up as I was finishing up clearing the normal threat I'd generated previously, one of the reasons I was so surprised.
Bear in mind it may have been spawned as threatfleet, or as special forces (it has a roughly 50/50 chance of picking either).  If it's SF it won't come after you on your own turf.  If you really want to know which you can use F3 (debug info) and mouseover it.
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Offline Diazo

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #66 on: March 14, 2013, 10:35:30 am »
I'll check, but I'm pretty sure it's normal threat.

It traded shots with my fleet for a bit before I ran away and now it's sitting there staring at me.....  >:(

D.

edit: Never mind, looks like the Shadow Frigate is special forces. Ah well.

edit the 2nd: The hell? I had a system just get populated enough to create a carrier. The carrier (and the units it contains) went from fixed defenders attached to something to being on threat. I enable cheats and check to make sure that I've got this right. That's not how carriers spawned due to high ship counts are supposed to behave correct?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 09:48:59 pm by Diazo »

Offline TechSY730

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #67 on: March 14, 2013, 09:56:52 pm »
edit the 2nd: The hell? I had a system just get populated enough to create a carrier. The carrier (and the units it contains) went from fixed defenders attached to something to being on threat. I enable cheats and check to make sure that I've got this right. That's not how carriers spawned due to high ship counts are supposed to behave correct?

Maybe the units were freed due to border aggression, and there were just enough units to spawn a carrier, which quickly left its defense duties (I guess because carriers are not allowed to be guards, so as soon as the AI noticed that, it freed it)?

Just a guess.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #68 on: March 14, 2013, 10:04:04 pm »
edit the 2nd: The hell? I had a system just get populated enough to create a carrier. The carrier (and the units it contains) went from fixed defenders attached to something to being on threat. I enable cheats and check to make sure that I've got this right. That's not how carriers spawned due to high ship counts are supposed to behave correct?
Do you have a save from before the carrier-ization, where it happens after some steps and/or time?

Sounds like it may be a legit threatfleet carrier, not sure.
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Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #69 on: March 14, 2013, 10:11:53 pm »
Possibly related, but zombie morons can become legitimate threatfleet by getting redeployed into carriers as well.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #70 on: March 15, 2013, 11:10:19 am »
Saw the changes to the Astro trains. Thanks.

However, can the tractor trains please be added to the list of "auto attacked" trains, so your units don't get dragged out into nowhere without any sort of effort to try to escape?

Offline Marmu23

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #71 on: March 15, 2013, 07:35:53 pm »
 The new zenith and spire starships are really fun and effective. Combined with the knowledge cost change I'm looking forward to using starships a lot more. I'm just a little sad about raid starships keeping their high costs as I will probably always use the 8k knowledge on the zenith+spire now (raids still are cost effective for suiciding on AI reducers but otherwise I think other starships are always more cost effective now, ex: anything under a force field that needs dying, pointing spire starships at it does the job just fine and then they are *much* more effective at blob action).

 For the incoming change to bomber starships that will allow them to shoot at everything, i would suggest to also double their range even if their damage must be reduced by half to compensate. I would use them like that. Right now their range is low enough that they can't shoot from one side of the blob to the other, I hate having to micro them to get some use out of them. I would probably still not use them if they keep their low range even if their damage was twice as high, it's just not fun.

Offline LordSloth

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #72 on: March 16, 2013, 10:07:52 pm »
I ran with a bad X map with fairly useless Mini Rams on Epic against a spireling and mad bomber. I had a mk3 planet with a translocator eye between me ane the rest of the galaxy, honestly I should have rerolled, because three planets wasn't enough to give me the tools to handle that.

Point is, it wasn't the waves killing me, it was the six heavy bomber starships mk3 with 54,000,000 health... and the emp guardian.. and the teleporting leeches and gravity guardians and zombie guardians and tractor platforms and maws and drains. I didn't stand a chance.

Neither did the Transports, they got fairly well slaughtered by mk3 missile posts.

Anyways, point is, I think this means that the Starfleet Commander might be a proper contender for Medium difficultly AI again, which is good and I'll be trying out with a much better map.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 10:10:36 pm by LordSloth »

Offline Lancefighter

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2013, 11:06:39 pm »
I would imagine the minirams would(should) be the optimal thing to use against bomber starships, it seems odd that you consider them completely useless.
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Offline LordSloth

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Re: AI War Beta 6.012 "Darkened Sky, Altered Starship" Released!
« Reply #74 on: March 17, 2013, 04:09:31 am »
Thankfully for a one-shot ship, the miniram doesn't appear to have it's damage (of 390,000 times mark per ship) halved, so it isn't unduly hampered by epic. Bomber starships do have armor, but it is neglible in the face of a miniram's near 400k damage (which doesn't have armor piercing, but that'll probably only come up against an Armored Golem)

Cap Dam Mk1 Minirams: 7,800,000
Cap Dam Mk2 Minirams: 15,600,000
Total Available Miniram Damage: 23,400,000.

That would be ...acceptable... in your average wave: your mark I Heavy Bomber Starship has 18,000,000 health. (85,000 metal, 15,000 crystal) taken out by 2,500 knowledge and 360,000 metal. Your mark 2 fighter cap would take around 115,000 combined metal and crystal, and take out that bomber in under 30 seconds (epic, if it matters) assuming you hadn't lost any to spire tractors and zombie guardians.

Three problems.
  • This wasn't a wave, this was a result of a system with an eye and co-processor (damaging transports even before the missile posts and gravity guardians and drains got to work due to lack of supply) and thiefs doing their usual grab and run thing.
  • These were Mk3 Heavy Bomber starships with 54 million health, more than twice the total alpha strike of my entire combined mk1&2 cap of minirams.
  • There were about a half dozen of these high mark starships between me and the universe at large.

I did unlock mk2 fighters, but the EMP guardian and spire tractor platforms had something to say about that.

If this was civiilization 4, I started on the tip of a peninsula as Ghandi and my nearest neighbor was Montezuma, and then I tried to conquer him.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 04:13:01 am by LordSloth »