Author Topic: AI War Beta 5.072-5.073 "A Revised Experience" Released!  (Read 6148 times)

Offline keith.lamothe

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AI War Beta 5.072-5.073 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« on: August 28, 2012, 05:48:30 pm »
(Crossposted from this blog post)

This one adds another nebula scenario that the game can pick to throw at you.  "Throw" is somewhat literal, as you will see.  Also added some more champion toys to the potential-scenario-reward toybox, and the last modular fortress (Zenith), for your AI-smashing pleasure.

More important than another scenario (though that is cool) are several important changes to the champion experience:
1) Nebula faction ships are now more focused on their jobs (as they see them, you may disagree).
2) Hull-sizes and hull-races are now granted such that you never have a larger hull of one race than another, so the choice of what hull to use is much more a matter of what you prefer than how the dice rolled.
3) XP gain is now way less based on what you kill in the nebulae (which was encouraging farming) and more based on how well you do in the scenarios.

And there's some other changes and fixes, as usual.  All in the notes :)

Update: 5.073 hotfix is out to fix the zenith modular fortress trying to use the wrong far zoom icon.

Enjoy!

This is a standard update that you can download through the  in-game updater itself, if you already have 4.000 or later. When you launch the game, you'll see the notice of the update having been found if you're connected to the Internet at the time.  If you don't have 4.000 or later, you can download that here.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 07:56:38 pm by keith.lamothe »
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Offline Lancefighter

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2012, 06:56:14 pm »
Hey keith. I love you.

edit; context
Gatlings.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 11:45:12 pm by Lancefighter »
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Offline Aklyon

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2012, 06:58:54 pm »
I read that, and now I'm expecting keith to either have made or is doing something with scenarios and tackle drone launchers now. :)

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2012, 07:45:28 pm »
The zenith modular fortress does not work. The errors say that the galaxyview images do not exist.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072-5.073 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2012, 07:56:50 pm »
Update: 5.073 hotfix is out to fix the zenith modular fortress trying to use the wrong far zoom icon.
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Offline LordSloth

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072-5.073 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2012, 09:04:21 pm »
Thanks for the lovely engineer change. It'll be a big help. That said...

5.071
I start up a singleplayer game on normal cap. 39 Engineers. I start up a singleplayer game on low cap: 39 engineers.

I start up a singleplayer game with five homeworlds: 120 engineers (24 each). I load up a multiplayer game with five normal players: 24 each.

With eight homeworlds, 104 engineers (13 apiece). Mk2 engies: 72.

For comparison, Fortresses go from 5 for 1 homeworld to 40 for 8 homeworlds, and Force Fields go from 10 for one homeworld to 80 for 8.

5.073
8 Homeworlds: 104 Mk1 Engineers, 144 Mk2, 176 Mk3
1 Homeworld: 39 Mk1 Engineers, 52 Mk2 Engineers, 62 Mk3

So two things... First up, in a one homeworld start, the numbers of engineers available aren't actually (1x, 1.5x, 2.0x) but instead roughly (1x, 1.3x, 1.6x)
The second thing: engineer caps are scaling down based on the number of players.
I'm very happy with the current engineer situation now, but it isn't as intended.

I do want to try out the new scenario, so I'll probably abandon this 7/7 Shield Ninny/Grav Drill map with astro trains and Advanced hybrid hives that has slaughtered me twice in a row. I may AAR a third attempt this weekend. I've learned a lot from attempt 1 & 2, maybe I'll do better with 3.

Offline Toranth

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072-5.073 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2012, 10:12:44 pm »
The Mourner's scenario now gives the same Knowledge reward (500K) as all the other scenarios.  It is intended?

Also, just for reference:  I used 8 Champions, and raced through all 12 scenarios on a 100 system map.  I ended at about level 83 (2.5 million total XP).
Also, the Spire Cruisers are lovely killing machines.  But then again, so are the Human Cruisers with HBCs...  Or a Neinzul with 6 Mk IV Insanity Inducers and 4 Mk IV Drone bays...
The Champions can get to be a LOT of fun up there at the high end of the scale.  I'm really enjoying this.  8)

But, would it be possible to prevent the off-road wormhole from appearing on the AI Homeworlds?  It got wierd - A ship producer, invulnerable, directly adjacent to an AI HW?  That doesn't cause alert?  Or the Gray Spire scenario, on a core world?  Both have happened to me now.

Offline Diazo

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072-5.073 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2012, 11:13:27 pm »
Okay. I'm thinking CPAs are dangerous again.

On patch 5.073, 3rd CPA of the game at 11:45:00 game time, 10,000 units are about to be freed.

Will be interesting and is more in line with what 10/10 should be.

D.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072-5.073 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2012, 11:27:24 pm »
The Mourner's scenario now gives the same Knowledge reward (500K) as all the other scenarios.  It is intended?
Yea, it's basically just a token reward; the main point of doing those is to buff up the champions, with some relatively minor non-champion rewards (the K, and some scenarios can give 1 of the 3 non-human modular fortress unlocks)

Quote
Also, just for reference:  I used 8 Champions, and raced through all 12 scenarios on a 100 system map.  I ended at about level 83 (2.5 million total XP).
That's probably due to you being able to smash through the scenarios much faster than a single champion could, thus getting the max XP.  It may also be my underestimating how much I made the scenario XP rewards scale up with level.

Quote
Also, the Spire Cruisers are lovely killing machines.  But then again, so are the Human Cruisers with HBCs...  Or a Neinzul with 6 Mk IV Insanity Inducers and 4 Mk IV Drone bays...
The Champions can get to be a LOT of fun up there at the high end of the scale.  I'm really enjoying this.  8)
Glad it's fun, even if of, ah, questionable balance ;)

Quote
But, would it be possible to prevent the off-road wormhole from appearing on the AI Homeworlds?
Not really, the offroad "planets" have to be seeded before anyone picks a homeworld.  I could make the AI not pick planets connected to a nebula as a homeworld, but that could lead to some strangeness with the AI HW being closer to the human homeworlds, which rather changes things.

Okay. I'm thinking CPAs are dangerous again.

On patch 5.073, 3rd CPA of the game at 11:45:00 game time, 10,000 units are about to be freed.

Will be interesting and is more in line with what 10/10 should be.
Haha, yea, that could get pretty nasty.  I wonder if there's enough stuffed away in those barracks to supply 10k ships.
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072-5.073 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2012, 11:41:17 pm »
Okay. I'm thinking CPAs are dangerous again.

On patch 5.073, 3rd CPA of the game at 11:45:00 game time, 10,000 units are about to be freed.

Will be interesting and is more in line with what 10/10 should be.
Haha, yea, that could get pretty nasty.  I wonder if there's enough stuffed away in those barracks to supply 10k ships.


pffft haha. You can't count on that with 10/10 any more, can you?
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Offline Diazo

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072-5.073 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2012, 11:43:45 pm »
Okay. I'm thinking CPAs are dangerous again.

On patch 5.073, 3rd CPA of the game at 11:45:00 game time, 10,000 units are about to be freed.

Will be interesting and is more in line with what 10/10 should be.
Haha, yea, that could get pretty nasty.  I wonder if there's enough stuffed away in those barracks to supply 10k ships.
There certainly was.

I think the first two CPAs of the game being 144 and 2,000 units, and playing across multiple patches screwed me over here.

The CPA ships all head to the same world somehow and combine into 9 carriers with escorts, which then stay nice and grouped up on their path my homeworld.

Owies, I'm done.

Especially when the 3rd last carrier pops and 6 spirecraft pop out, including a Siege Tower  Mk V and a Shield Bearer. I'm on a single HW at AIP 25, that hurts.

Save scum incoming tomorrow, I really don't want to have to abandon this game.

D.

edit: For reference, the pain was:
Code: [Select]
Triggering CPA (always from first AI); Game Time: 11:40:30
effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes = this.AIProgressionLevelEffective = 25
since diff > 7, numberOfSecondsPerPointOfMinimumAIPForCPAPurposes = 360 + ( (FInt)60 * ( (FInt)7 - this.AIDifficulty ) ).IntValue = 180
minimumAIPForCPAPurposes = Game.Instance.GameSecond / numberOfSecondsPerPointOfMinimumAIPForCPAPurposes = 233
effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes = Max(effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes,minimumAIPForCPAPurposes) = 233
difficultyFactor = ( this.AIDifficulty * 2 * this.GetHandicapMultiplier() ) / ( 13 - this.AIDifficulty ) : 3.33
simulateMaxTimeWaveFactor = Mat.One + ( ( this.AIDifficulty * 2 ) / ( ( 14 - this.AIDifficulty ) * 3 ) ) : 2.67
simulateDoubleWaveFactor = 2
simulateDifficultySpecificWaveSizeMultiplier = 4.5
humanHomeworldCountMultiplier = Mat.One + ( (FInt)( humanHomeworldCount - 1 ) * FInt.FromParts( 0, 330 ) ) + ( championCount * FInt.FromParts( 0, 066 ) ) = 1.07
numberOfShips (before applying cap-scale) = ( (FInt)effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes * difficultyFactor * simulateMaxTimeWaveFactor * simulateDoubleWaveFactor * simulateTheAIIsABastardFactor * humanHomeworldCountMultiplier ).IntValue = 19867

Looks like my gametime caused an effective AIP of 233, not the 25 my actual AIP is.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 11:49:15 pm by Diazo »

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072-5.073 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2012, 03:06:47 am »
First, ouch. One invisible cpa-only AIP every three minutes!?
Second: best variable name ever, though I wonder why it says simulateTheAIIsABastardFactor.
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Offline Ozymandiaz

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072-5.073 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2012, 03:26:35 am »
Okay. I'm thinking CPAs are dangerous again.

On patch 5.073, 3rd CPA of the game at 11:45:00 game time, 10,000 units are about to be freed.

Will be interesting and is more in line with what 10/10 should be.

D.

Not seen that yet, but I did try Normal+Champion with hard broken golems, hard broken botnet, hard spire... the 3 exo's are very hard to defend against. Think I need to tone it down for my next game, too many hunter killers. :P But dangerous CPA is pretty cool.
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Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072-5.073 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2012, 09:35:00 am »
Quote
Haha, yea, that could get pretty nasty.  I wonder if there's enough stuffed away in those barracks to supply 10k ships.
There certainly was.
Good to know the barracks change achieved its purpose, then :)  I was wondering how to get the population up high enough for truly effective CPAs without bogging down the game (both CPA and normal-defensive-response) with thousands of extra reinforcements, etc.  I think the barracks are a step in the right direction, at least.

Quote
The CPA ships all head to the same world somehow and combine into 9 carriers with escorts, which then stay nice and grouped up on their path my homeworld.

Owies, I'm done.
Yea, sounds like pain to me.  In theory you might be able to fragment that a bit by popping a carrier or two earlier and using gravs/FFs to "strain" out the ships flying under their own power (the carriers can fly through the FFs, though their guns cannot ignore them).  If you get the carriers by themselves while they're under attack I believe one will automatically pop to deploy its contents, so you can rinse, repeat.

The problem, of course, is getting any kind of gravs/FFs/whatever anywhere in effective range of that stack without it summarily melting.  9 full carriers probably have H/K level firepower, all combined.

Quote
effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes = this.AIProgressionLevelEffective = 25
since diff > 7, numberOfSecondsPerPointOfMinimumAIPForCPAPurposes = 360 + ( (FInt)60 * ( (FInt)7 - this.AIDifficulty ) ).IntValue = 180
minimumAIPForCPAPurposes = Game.Instance.GameSecond / numberOfSecondsPerPointOfMinimumAIPForCPAPurposes = 233
effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes = Max(effectiveAIPForCPAPurposes,minimumAIPForCPAPurposes) = 233
Yep, that's one of the key changes: low AIP still saves you from just about everything in the base game (waves, reinforcements, etc), but CPAs will have a minimum "boss fight" intensity when they do happen.  This is the AI saying "ok, I've sent a few dozen waves out with the mission 'find out what happened to the last one' so it's time for a little spring cleaning" ;)  I've found that many players can effectively cheese any oncoming AI attack so long as they have enough breathing room, but this should give folks a run for their money.

It's tied fairly heavily to difficulty so a 7 or 7.6 game isn't going to get hammered too hard there.  If your AIP had already been 233+ you wouldn't have noticed (because you'd be dead, due to having 233 AIP on 10/10, but I digress).  On Diff 7 the "wouldn't notice the different point" would be about 117 AIP, I think, and I imagine most diff 7 games have 117 AIP by the eleventh hour.

Quote
difficultyFactor = ( this.AIDifficulty * 2 * this.GetHandicapMultiplier() ) / ( 13 - this.AIDifficulty ) : 3.33
Actually a typo in there from an earlier version: the *2 is  no longer happening in the math; fixed the typo for the next version.

Quote
simulateMaxTimeWaveFactor = Mat.One + ( ( this.AIDifficulty * 2 ) / ( ( 14 - this.AIDifficulty ) * 3 ) ) : 2.67
simulateDoubleWaveFactor = 2
This is the game making sure the CPA won't be smaller than the wave attacks you've been facing :)  So it simulates two max-time waves.

Quote
simulateDifficultySpecificWaveSizeMultiplier = 4.5
This is taken straight from the wave size calcs: it's 4.5 on 10, 2.25 on 7, etc.  All in all, difficulty hammers you on most of the steps in here, for a combined effect that is quite... educational.

The Achilles' heel here is that those barracks are finite, and if you'd had both the earlier CPAs (probably at 3000 and 6000 ships, respectively) and popped some barracks here and there you might have been able to empty out its "reserves", at which point we're back down to "4 ships have been freed" CPAs ;)  But one thing at a time.
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Offline TechSY730

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Re: AI War Beta 5.072-5.073 "A Revised Experience" Released!
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2012, 09:39:26 am »
Any idea about why engineers are scaling down as more players join?