Author Topic: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!  (Read 38407 times)

Offline Volatar

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #180 on: August 11, 2012, 09:28:08 am »
I think one of the main purposes of the Champions is to give you something to do when your economy is floored. I like that they are "free" units. You pay for them in other ways.

Ok. No resource cost. Give them a 5-10s "repair stasis" upon respawn though. This may help alleviate the infinite homeworld defense as well.

Offline chemical_art

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #181 on: August 11, 2012, 10:01:46 am »
I found a champion exploit: two Human Shadow Destroyer w/three shields can hold off an attack on Home command pretty much indefinitely. I recommend a 2-second delay before modules can be built.

What difficulty?

I mean, it may contain one wave, but if in the process the ai is tearing up the rest of the galaxy your power will likely go out from losing planets, and even if it doesn't the second wave will get you, champion or no. It may not be able to die, but it's dps can't hold back 1k waves.

Keep in mind the cost of 20% extra everything on the ai. It means squat under 200 aip, but then you start to feel it...

That's a problem with the champion. There is a lack of pacing. Under 100 aip an extra 20% means almost nothing. 200 aip an extra 20% is a little noticeable. 300 aip and I feel the balance point is approaching on cost vs. effect. 400 and above it isn't worth it.

Is it possible to do something other then a strict % increase in aip? Like, for example, the champion costs a smaller percent but a hidden extra aip that increases per hour but caps at something not insane.

 (20 aip * number of hours but caps at 100 total aip) + (7% aip)

This would make it that early game it would cost more, in that for ultra low aip games you really feel it if you try to keep the aip floored. But the raw increases take 5 hours, and while contribute to ship count don't contribute to ship mark composition (meaning if you had 150 aip in the hud and an extra 100 of the hidden aip, the ai wouldn't send MK II ships but would send waves the strength of 250 aip.) So champions cost more early, however, champions shine most early game.

But late game the champions don't shine so much (they don't do as much against 2k waves as 500 ship waves) so a smaller % increases would lessen the sting.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 10:04:12 am by chemical_art »
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #182 on: August 11, 2012, 10:22:06 am »
Keep in mind the cost of 20% extra everything on the ai. It means squat under 200 aip, but then you start to feel it...

That's a problem with the champion. There is a lack of pacing. Under 100 aip an extra 20% means almost nothing. 200 aip an extra 20% is a little noticeable. 300 aip and I feel the balance point is approaching on cost vs. effect. 400 and above it isn't worth it.
~200 is pretty much the max on 10 diff.
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline chemical_art

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #183 on: August 11, 2012, 10:23:24 am »
Keep in mind the cost of 20% extra everything on the ai. It means squat under 200 aip, but then you start to feel it...

That's a problem with the champion. There is a lack of pacing. Under 100 aip an extra 20% means almost nothing. 200 aip an extra 20% is a little noticeable. 300 aip and I feel the balance point is approaching on cost vs. effect. 400 and above it isn't worth it.
~200 is pretty much the max on 10 diff.

but not everyone plays 10 diff, do they?

Should the fallen spire be playable on 10 diff as well then?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 10:25:28 am by chemical_art »
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Offline Draco18s

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #184 on: August 11, 2012, 10:31:19 am »
Currently just rediscovered the galaxy layout controls, and rearranging it is almost more fun than AI war itself ;p

I keep forgetting what key does that.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #185 on: August 11, 2012, 10:31:56 am »
I'd preferred if the Champion scaled well enough to account for 20% AIP even in late game.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #186 on: August 11, 2012, 10:39:04 am »
But late game the champions don't shine so much (they don't do as much against 2k waves as 500 ship waves)
Yet.

:)
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Offline chemical_art

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #187 on: August 11, 2012, 10:46:42 am »
heh.

Mission accomplished :)
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Offline Kahuna

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #188 on: August 11, 2012, 12:46:56 pm »
Keep in mind the cost of 20% extra everything on the ai. It means squat under 200 aip, but then you start to feel it...

That's a problem with the champion. There is a lack of pacing. Under 100 aip an extra 20% means almost nothing. 200 aip an extra 20% is a little noticeable. 300 aip and I feel the balance point is approaching on cost vs. effect. 400 and above it isn't worth it.
~200 is pretty much the max on 10 diff.

but not everyone plays 10 diff, do they?

Should the fallen spire be playable on 10 diff as well then?
~300 @ 9 diff :P
set /A diff=10
if %diff%==max (
   set /A me=:)
) else (
   set /A me=SadPanda
)
echo Check out my AI War strategy guide and find your inner Super Cat!
echo 2592 hours of AI War and counting!
echo Kahuna matata!

Offline Eternaly_Lost

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #189 on: August 11, 2012, 01:03:06 pm »
Keep in mind the cost of 20% extra everything on the ai. It means squat under 200 aip, but then you start to feel it...

That's a problem with the champion. There is a lack of pacing. Under 100 aip an extra 20% means almost nothing. 200 aip an extra 20% is a little noticeable. 300 aip and I feel the balance point is approaching on cost vs. effect. 400 and above it isn't worth it.
~200 is pretty much the max on 10 diff.

but not everyone plays 10 diff, do they?

Should the fallen spire be playable on 10 diff as well then?

Well Fallen Spire is, you have to set up things just right or the Exo waves will happy knock you down. I did my 10/10 win on a 120 fallen spire game. I also at that time was able to give saves that proved that the final victory condition at the end of it did not properly work in 10/10.

Offline Faulty Logic

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #190 on: August 11, 2012, 02:47:02 pm »
Quote
what difficulty?

8/8. They repelled a 500 ship wave combined with a massive hybrid attack. About 1k ships, but 50 were hybrids.
As for the difficulty, the extra 60 (assuming effective AIP 300, which is uncommon) AIP comes with 16000 k, a ship fully capable of conquering most worlds on its own, and 56 starship-grade vessels. I think the balance is very close to right. Also, when more content is implemented, we get even more strategic (backwater rewards) and tactical (Champion hull type) options to compensate.
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Offline pheonix89

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #191 on: August 11, 2012, 04:15:29 pm »
Three quick questions regarding modular forts.

1. The shields on them don't interfere with outgoing weapons fire, right? And this is true of spire city shields as well?

2. Their shields do protect allies, right?

3. They can use their repair ability on their own shield generators, or failing that a nearby engineer or normal for can do that?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #192 on: August 11, 2012, 04:17:41 pm »
1. The shields on them don't interfere with outgoing weapons fire, right? And this is true of spire city shields as well?

2. Their shields do protect allies, right?
Yes, yes, and yes (also true of spire capital ship shields, riot shields, and champion shields: basically only standard/hardened human generators have that problem)

Quote
3. They can use their repair ability on their own shield generators, or failing that a nearby engineer or normal for can do that?
On their own repair doing it I... don't know :)  Probably yes.  And yes on engineers.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #193 on: August 11, 2012, 04:39:47 pm »
For a difficulty that's supposed to be instant death there sure are a lot of people playing on 10/10. What's next, demands that the difficulty should go to eleven?

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AI War Beta 5.052-5.057 "From The Shadows" Released!
« Reply #194 on: August 11, 2012, 04:42:35 pm »
For a difficulty that's supposed to be instant death there sure are a lot of people playing on 10/10. What's next, demands that the difficulty should go to eleven?
10/10 "balance" (i.e. making it a proper death machine, though insta-death isn't really the goal) is ongoing.  One of the main problems seems to be downstream effects from the reinforcements overhaul not long ago, and this next release addresses some of that.
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