Mk IV ships, factories and their value

[Diazo]

As such, I wouldn't mind 1 or 2 more adv factories spawned and maybe a few more manufactories of the other stuff to compensate for this.

Actually, this makes sense.

It also gives you the option when you lose one that there probably is another one you could capture in a location that is feasibly possible to do so.

D.

[Mánagarmr]

You could always turn the Fac planet into your whipping boy. That way it would be solidly protected. Though that's not always practical.

[Martyn van Buren]

I think the sort of changes proposed here would have a pretty negative impact on more vanilla games, enough to outweigh the benefit of making Mk IV and V more usable in exo games.  I almost always play non-superweapon games and for me factories tend to make a big difference and are an interesting challenge to hold, and fabs create interesting perks for holding marginally valuable worlds. I am not a terribly advanced player but I tend to find on diff 7.3 - 8 taking an advanced factory is often what starts to push me toward the endgame. And with today's buff to high marks that should surely be even more true, no? If I could rebuild factories or relocate them to a conveniently defensible world I feel like i'd be losing one of the big strategic problems I expect in AI War.

[TechSY730]

I think the sort of changes proposed here would have a pretty negative impact on more vanilla games, enough to outweigh the benefit of making Mk IV and V more usable in exo games.  I almost always play non-superweapon games and for me factories tend to make a big difference and are an interesting challenge to hold, and fabs create interesting perks for holding marginally valuable worlds. I am not a terribly advanced player but I tend to find on diff 7.3 - 8 taking an advanced factory is often what starts to push me toward the endgame. And with today's buff to high marks that should surely be even more true, no? If I could rebuild factories or relocate them to a conveniently defensible world I feel like i'd be losing one of the big strategic problems I expect in AI War.

What about just seeding a few more of them? Or even just seeding a few more of them only at least one of Spirecraft (hard), Golems (hard), or Botnet (hard) is turned on?

When I say a few, I mean a few. Two more advanced factories should be the max, and even that seems to be pushing it. I have not figured out good numbers for the various types of manufactories though.

[Mánagarmr]

I've found that on my 60 planet games, I get at tops two factories, and they're usually far apart, making it rather difficult to get the second one should you lose the first.

[Diazo]

I think it's hardcoded at 2 Adv Facs right now.

I've always gotten 2 and I play 80 planet maps.

D.

[PokerChen]

Strange, I remember getting more than 2 once (4?) - probably in a 120-planet game.

[Martyn van Buren]

I'd have absolutely no objection to changes to exo games; I don't play them much and don't know their balance. But I think advanced factories in an 80-planet 7-to-8 difficulty game are in a good place right now, balancewise.

[Mánagarmr]

Yeah, they can't become too common, because if they do, they instantly lose their value and rarity. Which would be bad.

[LordSloth]

I was about to suggest a Neinzul Enclave Golem, but then I checked- a Neinzul Enclave Starship MkIV can produce MkIV ships even before a factory is captured.

Still, a Neinzul Enclave Golem sounds kinda cool, just redundant. Maybe if it produced mark iv starships (with relevant mk3 unlock) as well? Well, there is no known neinzul-zenith hybrids I'm aware of, though the Hive Golem comes *close*. So it might not really fit in.

Of course, Neinzul Enclave Starships MkIV cost entirely too much knowledge to just *replace* a MkIV factory, but they can be good given the right bonus ships.

[Shrugging Khan]

I suggest that instead of the entire Exo Wave going after Factories and Fabs, parts of the Wave should form up as an independent strike force aimed at those targets, while the bulk of the wave continues towards the HW.

UNLESS the Exo Wave has already lost more ships to Human attacks than it would need to create the strike force, in which case it should ignore the Factory/Fabricator altogether.

That way, setting up reasonable defences could "dissuade" the AI from attacking those targets.

[TechSY730]

I suggest that instead of the entire Exo Wave going after Factories and Fabs, parts of the Wave should form up as an independent strike force aimed at those targets, while the bulk of the wave continues towards the HW.

Already sort of does this. Each "sub-wave" of the exo-wave selects a target independently. The HW may be the most likely target, but other targets are possible, like the Adv. Factories and Fabs.

However, IFIAK, there is no sort of "avoidance" of two different "sub-waves" both choosing to go to the same factory/fab. It is unlikely, but still entirely possible.
Also, it is fair game for the AI to decide to put all of the exo-wave in one giant "sub-wave", which could choose to take out the factory or fabricator or whatever.

[Bognor]

I got four Advanced Factories in my last two-homeworld game on an 80 planet map.  It seems to be two Advanced Factories per homeworld.

Edit: And six in my current three-homeworld, 100 planet map.

[Wanderer]

I got four Advanced Factories in my last two-homeworld game on an 80 planet map.  It seems to be two Advanced Factories per homeworld.

This is correct, to a limit.  8 HW games don't get 16 of them.  I think it caps/diminishing returns.