Author Topic: CPA, Barracks Hunting and more?  (Read 2814 times)

Offline Trandrin

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CPA, Barracks Hunting and more?
« on: September 06, 2012, 12:45:06 pm »
My current game is ongoing and I have been hit with some devastating CPA waves. My last wave was 8k. The next one that is currently ticking is 10k. My barracks hunting has killed many thousands of ships from their slumber. I am wondering if anyone else has any good tactics to deal with the strong CPA waves? Or is the barracks hunting about the most one can do?

Offline Diazo

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Re: CPA, Barracks Hunting and more?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2012, 01:29:24 pm »
10K?

What difficulty, number of homeworlds, and gametime are you at?

I've been making a lot of noise about the 10K CPA I had to recently deal with, but for me at 1 HW, AIP 223, Diff 10 and 11:45:00 gametime, so I did not feel like that size was out of line.

As I have no defensive depth I had to resort to warheads to deal with it, but it depends on map layout and how many systems you have will determine what strategies you can try.

D.

Offline Hearteater

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Re: CPA, Barracks Hunting and more?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2012, 01:37:34 pm »
I have a theory that barracks hunting may actually be a bad idea.  It all depends on when Barracks get emptied for a CPA, and what Mark ships come out.  But I think it actually works out that killing Barracks doesn't reduce the size of a CPA unless you depopulate the whole map in addition.  Instead, it increases the Mark level of the CPA by depleting sources of lower Mark units.  I haven't tested to confirm this yet, but I'm trying to keep an eye on it for my next CPA.

Offline Trandrin

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Re: CPA, Barracks Hunting and more?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2012, 01:41:10 pm »
1 HW, Diff 10, think 12 hours or so in 154 AIP. I needn't have worried though. When it finally was shown what the AI was sending at me it only had about 3k ships to send. I had destroyed almost entire backlog of ships it had to deploy on these CPAs apparently. Guess eating so many ships from the past CPA and destroying every barracks I could get my hands on really did help late game. Just had to survive long enough.

I just want to know any general tactics/strategies that would help in handling CPA. Normally I use Riot starships to break engines and have the fleet intercept the CPA in transit so I only fight a few hundred at a time.  It almost failed me a number of times so I want to do something better.

Offline LordSloth

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Re: CPA, Barracks Hunting and more?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2012, 01:47:09 pm »
Edit: I took a long time to write this post. This was pretty much written with only the first post in mind. Oh, and please share your version. I don't know from the release notes whether this was relevant to CPAs, but the AI *was* ignoring unit caps in waves for one release.
 
First up, hunting before a CPA can actually be detrimental (or can allow you to focus where the push comes from and when). The size of the CPA is determined at the announcement, but the ships freed are determined when the CPA actually occurs. In other words, unless the AI runs out of ships in the entire galaxy (possible, perhaps), a 5000 ship CPA will always be a 5000 ship CPA no matter how many units you kill after the announcement, and before the timer hits zero.

The AI first tries to free ships at the appropriate mark, but if it unable to find enough, it then looks at lower marks for availability, only going for higher marks if any lower are not available, IIRC. This isn't generally something to be concerned about, but... it can matter, depending on what you're doing. Long story short, don't hunt units currently in guard mode. Turn on the threat filter on the galaxy view and hunt down existing threat, since that is ON TOP of everything that will be freed in the CPA. I've customized the threat filter to T and the Hybrid filter to H, but those aren't default settings, I just use them enough. You can access those filters through the galaxy map user interface, even without a keybinding. It's just too useful not to bind, though.

Specific advice would require a better idea of the configuration of the game. General advice:

Build a few lightning warheads at key locations. Place them under a forcefield (on your territory) next to a hostile wormhole where threat is likely to gather. Once you see threat gathering around the wormhole to attack, but before it moves into your system, send in the lightning warheads. Note that missile frigates are immune to area attacks. This does cost AI Progress, so avoid overusing it, but it certainly costs less than a game over. With this strategy it actually pays to stack as much firepower in a single frontline system as you can safely manage, in order to provide a bigger cluster of enemies to warhead.

Defensive depth, logistic stations, mines, spider turrets, and riot starships carefully kited can significantly reduce the danger of a CPA and give you a chance to defeat the enemy in detail - depending on the layout of the map.

It can actually pay to leave a system mostly undefended. If you have one chokepoint they can approach through and all your forces wait there, then the AI will stalk the system until it decides it has a decisive advantage, and lacking reserves, you're all out of luck. If you wait in a nearby system, or leave a good portion of your forces in reserve, then it will attack sooner and with smaller taskforces, that you'll ideally be able to handle once the reserves come to the rescue. That said, I second the sentiment that your CPAs are a bit higher than I expected in a typical singleplayer game, though I can imagine a few scenarios that would reasonable cause CPAs of that size.

I repeat, don't go hunting for inactive units and barracks EDIT: Unless it actually works, in which case, nevermind. Aim for loose threat and carriers.

You can establish a beach head of a fortress and various turrets in AI territory adjacent to yours. It's not something I usually do, but it is an option if you need to fight the AI a bit further out.

Try logistics stations stationed at the edges of systems. They'll help your force respond, as well as buy you time to react to ships that slip past your front lines. Try mark 3 military stations at your chokepoints. The damage multiplier is very nice in all situations, and the teleportation attacks can't hold off an entire task force, but can hold off many of the smaller attacks for a rather long time.

I'm sure I have some other tips, but I can't remember them at the moment. I'll post 'em later.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 01:52:37 pm by LordSloth »

Offline Trandrin

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Re: CPA, Barracks Hunting and more?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2012, 01:55:14 pm »
5.078 is the version I am running now.  My barracks hunting focused on the higher mark barracks first. And looking at my current map I see no more barracks left. So it is just pulling from normal ship numbers, I think.


Offline Diazo

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Re: CPA, Barracks Hunting and more?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2012, 01:56:46 pm »
1 HW, Diff 10, think 12 hours or so in 154 AIP. I needn't have worried though. When it finally was shown what the AI was sending at me it only had about 3k ships to send. I had destroyed almost entire backlog of ships it had to deploy on these CPAs apparently. Guess eating so many ships from the past CPA and destroying every barracks I could get my hands on really did help late game. Just had to survive long enough.

I just want to know any general tactics/strategies that would help in handling CPA. Normally I use Riot starships to break engines and have the fleet intercept the CPA in transit so I only fight a few hundred at a time.  It almost failed me a number of times so I want to do something better.

So pretty much the same as mine then, so the same size makes sense.

I cheated and looked at the logs, CPA's get a minimum AIP based on game time, it was actually using a AIP of about 220 for this CPA.

Although you only got 3K ships? Nice. How big a galaxy?

I'm on an 80 planet map and don't think I could afford to barracks hunt like that, I'm not capturing enough worlds to give me bases to do so.

D.

Offline Trandrin

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Re: CPA, Barracks Hunting and more?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2012, 02:04:13 pm »
Map size is 50. I sent raid star ships at the barracks to anger it into attacking. And I lied. I found one last barracks.. AI HW #2..

Offline LordSloth

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Re: CPA, Barracks Hunting and more?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2012, 02:05:10 pm »
Oh, yes. I highly recommend the following if available:

Spirecraft: Martyrs, Attritioners (in case of low health swarm ships, especially annoying stealthed ones) or Siege Towers if dealing with more healthy regular cap units.
Mines, mines, and more mines. They've been buffed significantly since the release of 5.00, and the EMP ones are a particular favorite of mine, keeping in mind that there will be plenty of enemies immune to mines (but not immune to mines triggered by other units), and also units immune to EMP or Area Damage (missile frigates are one of the latter). Use the EMP ones in support of any wormhole-based Turret Farms, in particular. If they have a long in-system approach, then the damage designs are probably better for you.

Stacking higher levels of Lightning Turrets under a forcefield is also quite fun and deadly, but sadly really worth pursuing in as few locations as possible, and not helpful along a large border such as you tend to have to defend during CPAs.

Edit Again: Oh hey, 10/10. Most of my advice is probably quite basic to you, then.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 02:09:07 pm by LordSloth »

Offline Kahuna

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Re: CPA, Barracks Hunting and more?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2012, 02:07:07 pm »
I am wondering if anyone else has any good tactics to deal with the strong CPA waves? Or is the barracks hunting about the most one can do?
I haven't been Barracks raiding in my current game. I just turtle my planets. The previous CPA sent ~14k ships (All of them didn't come at once (no swarmers)) and my defenses auto stopped them. Turrets+Mines=Recipe for safety. A couple of Lightning Warheads if you really have to. Area Mines need a nerf. Normals and EMPs are ok.
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Offline Trandrin

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Re: CPA, Barracks Hunting and more?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2012, 02:09:15 pm »
I would make use of the EMP mines and Spirecraft. But this current game has no expansions on. So its been a interesting fight without lots of special ships/structures. Their assault pattern is literally one world away from my home world. Kinda like a knife fight between me and the AI. Up close and very deadly. :(