Author Topic: Help on Defense mode and random questions  (Read 1456 times)

Offline sgt_deacon

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Help on Defense mode and random questions
« on: March 13, 2011, 06:38:05 pm »
I posted this on the Steam forums but haven't gotten a response so figured I would post here:

Any tips for defender mode? Everytime I have tried it I have died terribly because they have an overwhelming number of ships compared to me. I even pause it at the beginning so that I queue up various things. Are the recommended number of planets to take inaccurate or am I doing something wrong?

Is there an easy way to see which reactors you have on a planet? I know in the bottom left there is a list of reactors, which is useful for putting reactors into low power mode. However it isn't very useful when trying to find someplace where you can place a new reactor. I tried using the 'find' feature on the galaxy map and couldn't find anything to do with reactors.

Similarly I remember finding a way to list engineers that, the list would say something along the lines of "7 engineers are present on Vanwilder", am I misremember or is there some place to see this [outside of the search function galaxy map]?

I've tried to edit the planet specific details of allies planets to auto-build remains rebuilders for me but it does not work. Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?

Is there an easier way to find certain ships in the "types by player" menu? Right now I have to scroll everything if I am curious how many kills I have with a ship.

And a question on starships, what are peoples opinions for unlocking these? I usually unlock all the fleet ships to III before I even think about unlocking starships, is this a good tactic or am I shooting myself in the foot with this?

Is it worth it to research command stations, I haven't really in the past and I'm wondering if I am missing out?

Thanks for the help.

Offline Red Spot

  • Sr. Member Mark III
  • ****
  • Posts: 462
Re: Help on Defense mode and random questions
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2011, 07:05:06 pm »
I posted this on the Steam forums but haven't gotten a response so figured I would post here:

Any tips for defender mode? Everytime I have tried it I have died terribly because they have an overwhelming number of ships compared to me. I even pause it at the beginning so that I queue up various things. Are the recommended number of planets to take inaccurate or am I doing something wrong?
Havent actually played it much, and where I did I got crushed ½-way in .. :)

Is there an easy way to see which reactors you have on a planet? I know in the bottom left there is a list of reactors, which is useful for putting reactors into low power mode. However it isn't very useful when trying to find someplace where you can place a new reactor. I tried using the 'find' feature on the galaxy map and couldn't find anything to do with reactors.
Not sure, there may be a filter. If not you can check the reactors from the galaxyview using the unit-filter(bottum button on the left panel).

Similarly I remember finding a way to list engineers that, the list would say something along the lines of "7 engineers are present on Vanwilder", am I misremember or is there some place to see this [outside of the search function galaxy map]?
Ah, yes that handy feature is part of the slider of how many engies should be present on a planet. You can also use the bottum button in the leftside panel in the galaxyview, incase I didn't mention that before :)

I've tried to edit the planet specific details of allies planets to auto-build remains rebuilders for me but it does not work. Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?

Is there an easier way to find certain ships in the "types by player" menu? Right now I have to scroll everything if I am curious how many kills I have with a ship.

And a question on starships, what are peoples opinions for unlocking these? I usually unlock all the fleet ships to III before I even think about unlocking starships, is this a good tactic or am I shooting myself in the foot with this?
I pretty much do the same. Playing vs certain AI-types they dont even have much use (not sure if the oposite might be true for some AIs though).
Sometimes they can support your fleet quite a bit, but I see them as support for a fleet .. which means I first get that fleet.


Is it worth it to research command stations, I haven't really in the past and I'm wondering if I am missing out?
I pretty much always do. Early game I try to get a few mk2 Econ-CCs up in an effort to bolster my early econ. Depending on how my empire and fronts develop I may unlock mk2 Military-CCs or mk3 Econ-CCs, with enough knowledge and several fronts I may unlock mk3 Mil-CCs. I dont see much use for the higher mark Log-CCs but they may have its use depending on the ships the AI has unlocked and/or you playingstyle/preferences(I used to unlock log-CCs untill a change was made to the balance of CCs and so my preference shifted to Mil-CCs). The Warp-counter CCs are nice when you want to protect certain planets from (counter)waves, specially handy when you have some delicate structures on some planets.

Thanks for the help.
You're welcome :)

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: Help on Defense mode and random questions
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2011, 11:12:54 am »
A few general ideas for you:

Pausing
Defender mode is really quite intense and fast-moving, so making use of the pause button (there are settings options for making it keep playing the music and not darken the screen while you do so) can be a big boost.

# Starting Planets
Typically the way you start out the defender mode can make a big difference on how easy or hard the scenario is.  If you're starting out with one planet... my god that's likely to be impossible.  You won't be taking any planets while in this mode (good luck even trying), so however many planets you start out with determines how much room there is for error in your defenses.

If you start out with dozens of planets and a shortish timer, you can play horribly and probably still win because the AI won't have time to roll you.  Playing with one planet is just as unfair in the other direction.  As the tooltips in-game note, usually something like 4-5 planets is probably ideal.  But even that depends on how your layout is -- if you're playing the center of a concentric circles or X map, then you probably want to take at least two-deep of a buffer to your central planet in all directions for a fair fight.  Conversely, playing a Snake or a Tree map might be easier to dig yourself in on, since it's simpler to stack your defenses.

Nuke em from orbit
Defender mode is one of those cases where AI Progress matters fairly little.  Well, it matters a ton, but it's already spiraling upwards pretty fast with each wave, so adding even something like 50 more AIP doesn't have much overall effect on things.  So I guess I mean the scale of how you care about AIP is changed, perhaps reduced by 10x or so.  Instead of thinking of 1 AIP as practically free, and 5 AIP as quite cheap, I think in terms of 10 AIP as practically free, and 50 AIP as quite cheap, for example.

That also depends on how long your defender mode is, of course -- if you play longer than about 45 minutes, the scale of how you care about AIP goes back closer to normal.

Anyway, so my point is that you can use the missile silo to pretty great effect.  Have a nuke or two on-hand, carefully out of the way.  Then if there are 8k ships barreling through your outer planets and you have no hope of survival... nuke em from orbit!  You'll still have to deal with any mark V ships or any ships that are immune to nukes (like many starships), but at least your task will be vastly reduced.

If you find yourself leaning on nukes too heavily during a defender campaign, you're probably in trouble, but using one or two nukes as a sort of "Get out of trouble free" card can work wonders.  Frankly, that's also true of CPAs in the main game, but the AIP tradeoff is a lot more severe-feeling there.

Mines, Spider Turrets, etc
In any sort of situation where you are clearly outmatched by the AI, you need to do stuff that buys you time or that kills the enemy in bulk.  Nukes are the most extreme example there, but they have a lot of other negative consequences (AIP, loss of that planet for you, etc).  On the other hand, there are numerous other smaller types of units that you can use to lesser effect but without those penalties.

Minefields
Minefields in general can be just incredibly good value for taking out enemy ships in pretty good numbers.  Especially area minefields, goodness.  Make sure that you are building your minefields in such a way that all the minefields are actually going to use.  Watch the patterns of the ones that actually get damaged or exploded in killing enemies -- any that are just sitting there were useless, and are something you can skip placing next time you design a minefield.

Spider Turrets
Spider turrets are great for stranding enemy ships such that they can't move and you can deal with them later.  Set them up in an out of the way location, and the AI likely won't get a chance to mess with them.  Meanwhile, they'll be reducing the number of ships that you have to face at any one point in the battle.

EMP mines, or full EMP warheads themselves, can also work on the same principle here, although they only have a temporary effect, unlike spider turrets or other engine-damaging units.

Starships
Some people swear by them, others don't.  It really depends on your playstyle.  I think a lot of the starship-favoring folks tend to be the hit-and-run sort that are doing guerrilla forays into AI territory.  That sort of tactic... isn't at all part of defender mode.  Given the vast numbers of ships in defender mode, and the lack of high-level targets, that probably means that starships are in general less valuable in that specific mode.

That said, you probably want siege starships of yours to be hammering the AI ships from afar.  You also want light starships (or even flagships) boosting the heck out of the munitions of your smaller forces (the effect is quite notable).  You probably also want riot starships armed with lots of engine-killing stuff so that they can strand a ton of the AI's smaller ships (same sort of mentality as the spider turrets).

Command Station Upgrades
In defender mode, you can't build command stations, so these aren't something to worry with.  In the main game, sure, they are enormously useful.  I personally always go for mark III economic ones, but other players vary in what they like the best.  And it depends on the situation, too.  Sometimes lonely outpost planets really need a military command station, for example.

Controlling the Numbers In Each Engagement
The key thing, when you have 1000 ships and the AI has 6000 incoming ships, is to not fight them all at one time.  If you can fight them 250 or 500 at a time, you'll dominate every encounter, right?  If you have sufficient healing along with, or sufficient reinforcements constantly being cranked out continuously, then you can keep that up indefinitely and eventually they are dead and you are not.

The tricky part is figuring out in what ways to best misdirect, delay, distract, or mass-murder the AI ships in order let your military ships pick them off.  In the normal game of AI War, you are the guerrilla going into the AI's territory most of the time.  But in the defender mode, it's open warfare and the AI is coming for you, instead -- by default, this means that the AI suddenly has "the tempo,"  and you are constantly and irrevocably on the back foot in this mode.

Put another way: given enough time, you will lose in defender mode.  "It is inevitable, Mr. Anderson," but for real this time.  This is like the Kobayashi Maru, but with one important distinction -- the time limit.  Your goal is not to survive indefinitely, which is impossible in this mode, but rather to survive for a certain amount of time, which is hard as heck but definitely not impossible.

Thus your two sole tasks in defender mode, as simply as possible, are to delay, and to control/contain the damage.  That's why things like nukes, or spider turrets, or whatever are so much more admissible in the higher levels of play in this mode compared to the higher levels of play in the normal campaigns.  It's quite a different way of playing, despite the units being the same in both games!
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline sgt_deacon

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Help on Defense mode and random questions
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2011, 07:46:22 pm »
Thanks for the help both of you, the advice will definitely come in handy. I didn't think about using warheads to that effect, so that will be really useful. I also was having trouble finding the reactors in the galaxy view because I wasn't looking for "resources". The list on the ctrls tab for engineers was exactly what I was thinking of, thanks.

Not to be a pain but I'm wondering if anyone knows this, so I figure I will ask again:
Is the fact that the planet specific controls don't work on teammates planets a bug or am I doing something wrong? I'd really like to keep remains rebuilders on key ally "hub" planets.

Offline x4000

  • Chris McElligott Park, Arcen Founder and Lead Dev
  • Arcen Staff
  • Zenith Council Member Mark III
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,651
Re: Help on Defense mode and random questions
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2011, 07:48:22 pm »
They don't work on teammates planets by design at the moment, IIRC.  I think there's a mantis issue already there with some requested options for that.  Feel free to vote it up. ;)
Have ideas or bug reports for one of our games?  Mantis for Suggestions and Bug Reports. Thanks for helping to make our games better!

Offline sgt_deacon

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: Help on Defense mode and random questions
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 04:48:15 pm »
Ok, thanks again.

I don't really understand why it would be 'by design' though? I get why it doesn't work for the galaxy-wide controls, but if it is planet specific controls then someone wanted to deliberately change the way that planet works (by building remains re builders, reactors, etc..), I can't think of a reason why it shouldn't do that?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 04:51:07 pm by sgt_deacon »